Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NotziMad, Aug 15, 2020.
A ******* R E .../ T A R D
I mean, you are correct, but please be more specific. What instance are you referring to? There are probably a few too many examples flying around to guess.
(I've calmed down now lol)
I'm talking about biolabs.
And I'm talking about the addition of spawns in biolabs.
Whether there is a (or more than a) biolab fight or not, on most continents, specially on Esamir (where this is so painfuilly obvious it actually makes me angry just thinking about it) is, most of the time, almost all the time, the biggest factor that determines the outcome of an Alert.
It really is that simple. To take Esamir (the most obvious example), biolab fight in Mani = Southern warpgate wins.
That's all there is to it. It doesn't matter who's online, how skilled they are, what outfit is active, how good they are, nothing matters, because there is literally nothing anyone can do about it.
There's only one thing the North Western or North Eastern warpgate can do about it, only one thing, and that is to cut off the biolab. Either by taking the bases surrounding it, or by allowing the other faction to take them. It's the only way.
It's pre-determined. Esamir opens, there's a Mani biolab fight, south wins. End of story.
On top of that, the biolab fights actually promote gameplay that ignores the Alerts. People, players, very often the huge majority of players, will spend the entire time Esamir is open in Mani biolab. Disregarding the rest of the content this game has to offer.
Biolabs, before, but even more so now that they have spawns in them are such huge population sinks that they have such a huge impact on the territory control, that anyone, or any group of players, fighting for that territory has already lost before it even ******* starts.
TL;DR -------> Biolabs, especially with the spawns in the biolab, KILL ALERTS. I'm not exagerating.
PS. (and I'm not just saying this, I can link the posts if you ask me) I've been saying say for YEARS, YEARS!!!!!!! And time has passed, I doubted myself, questioned my reasoning, my analysis, my interpretation, but there's no way round it, I was right about this years ago, and I'm right about it now, and it PISSES me off that devs don't see this cause it's that ******* evident.
That's old news. Biolabs have needed a rework for a long time. But sadly, this isn't in fact a product of bad design. It's a product of the people who play this game preferring COD or Battlefield style games where they can run and gun without interference from vehicles. Biolabs are totally enclosed, so they're naturally the best infantry farming locations in the game.
Imagine having a construction system that's somewhat unique amongst FPS games and actually interesting to play for some people. It's neglected for years and underused because it's not rewarding to play in a serious way. Just add outfit OS, so no one can play construction with useful bases anymore and it's only purpose is free ESF and routers. Then the next patch, just add cortium bombs, with the only purpose to counter construction and no other gameplay value.
I'm not really a "pve" player, but when we had HIVES, I swear I really loved making (and destroying) bases, I thought it was really cool ...
I don't think it's that simple. Those Biolab players could be players that are not part of a coordinated squad, don't have a leader, don't understand how squads work with all these redeploys and rapidly changing fronts, so they always get kicked.
These solo players just want to play the game and because the fights change very quickly they often stay where fights constantly happen like in the Biolab or follow some zerg...That's how I see it.
First time playing as a meat shield in this game, I hit auto-deploy and...Duuuhhh BIOLAB! .
Eventually I learned. Playing with no membership meant that my resource generation blew chunks. Way too costly for me as a newbie to even try vehicles and compete. So auto Duuuhhh BIOLAB and let my ninite pool re-generate playing some pew pew.
There are many reasons infantrymen love Biolabs:
1) Biolabs are farmers' Paradise. In no other places you can rack so many kills so quickly
2) countless deaths means countless rezzed. Medics love Biolabs too.
3) zero vehicles and almost no sniper to spoil the fun. Pure pew pew.
4) lots of opportunities for alternative playstyle as LA or stalker, to try new weapons, look for new angles,...
5) short turnaround between death and respawn in seconds you can be on the front line again
Maybe those are simply better alternatives to a long and boring alert which provides you A7 you won't need and certs you can only spend in RNG boxes.
Blame the alert mechanism not the Biolab...
The issue isn't why players like it... everyone knows why players like it, that's not the point.
Point is the devs (the dev?), by introducing spawns in the biolabs made a problem that already existed and that they (he?) should have been aware of even worse.
Not only that, but it's been like this for a very long time and they (he?) have done nothing to improve the situation.
PS. The Alert mechanism existed LONG BEFORE. That's the whole point, these biolabs are sabotaging Alerts.
Why is it a problem if players farm in a Biolab instead of partecipating to Alerts?
Cleary it is a problem for you.
But that does not make it a Devs problem.
Maybe Devs offer a variety of options to play and each one chooses.
There's the long version, which gives details, illustrations, arguments and examples, which PROVES what I'm saying, but it's long, and no one reads it, and there's the short version, which is this :
The number one most important variable that determines an Alert victory is population.
But it's not -as most people think- the raw numbers. As in, it doesn't matter if one faction has 2% more population or 3% more population than the other two.
What matters is what that population does.
Since this is the short version, this is the answer to your question ----> If most of the players of one faction are fighting most of the players of another faction. That leaves no one to fight the 3rd faction.
So the players trying to defend against the 3rd faction, always face overwhelming odds.
Now I could explain also why it IS a dev problem, but again, long post, so I'll just that devs are responsible for whatever content the game contains. So the subject of my post is that if a dev introduces content that is detrimental to existing content THEN HE IS ******* R. E . T A ./R DED
Small bonus --> another important factor that most people ignore but that also very important in determining who wins an alert is how static a fight is, or fights are in general. But I'm guessing I would have to explain that in more detail, which would require a wall of text.
Shocking news 1: There are players who do not give a flying **** about the Alert Victory and prefer to farm in Biolabs instead.
Shocking news 2: Devs have never seen it as problem otherwise we wouldn't have prestige weapons available only via extended farming sessions in the first place and farming luna-parks like Biolabs in the second.
TL;DR: Biolabs do affect Alert outcome but nobody (except you ) cares.
Untrue. Everyone in my outfit cares as well. We want to win alerts.
Honestly i despise biolabs. And the many places like biolabs. Their practically impossible to take or defend without a massive pop advantage they are probably the single most pain in *** area to capture in general. As people have said its far easier to just cap the points around them.
Again, none of what you wrote matters, it's irrelevant, because you're missing the point.
This time no long sentences and paragraph :
The devs made alerts. (fact)
The devs made biolabs and then added spawns in biolab. (fact)
Those biolabs sabotage alerts (you agreed with me on this point).
I don't know why you're even replying now, isn't it simple and easy to see with the pretty colours?
That's it, end of story. They made content A (Alerts) then they made content B (Biolabs) and content B sabotages content A
I could also try drawing a picture if you want
Just hop factions. Every continent has an Easy Win WG. I play the faction with the easy WG and win 90% of Alerts, Maximizing muh gains on all three factions.
If EVERYONE did this the Devs would be forced to do something about it.
Yeah, the majority of my Esamir play is based around ending the Mani blender. Deliberately letting it fall isn't an option, because while I can keep most of my own platoon out, I can't keep others out, I've tried. The most effective thing I've found for Mani is to call break time when 5 minutes are left on the previous continent, then mob a satellite base to cut it off, then spend the next 2 hours occasionally flash mobbing a defense of the satellite. Eventually the bio farm hungry peasants go to the other bio labs, leaving the southern warpgate stuck with pop sinks on two biolabs. The point I have to emphasize 5 or 6 times while we're cutting off the biolab is that we will NOT be warpgating the other faction, and anyone who does will be kicked from the platoon. I usually only have to kick one or two.
Biolabs were made with the G-AMS in mind. Those got removed, and suddenly attackers had much longer travel time to the point. Then teleporters were added, but attackers still couldn't get to the point quickly enough.
Finally they added in spawns, which created a balance. A terrible balance, but it works....kinda.
tl:dr: biolabs are bad because a crucial piece of their design is missing, aka deployable galaxies. Same with tech plants, but to a lesser degree.
The truth is that you could remove Biolabs right now, all of them, and people still wouldnt "go" for the alerts. And its very simple:
To win alerts you need to capture territory.
To capture territory you need to cap a base.
Whenever you cap a base there is a boring pause in the fight.
When you reach the next base you dont have a fun and fair fight, as some defenders got bored and left for another fight instead of waiting and some defenders didnt want to stick around to lose another fight so they left. The only exceptions are when the next base in line is a large one where they can have a good fight and more defenders show up.
Going for the alert and capturing territory just isnt fun as it breaks up the very the very thing most players play the game. I am one of those who absolutely love Biolab fights (although AMP stations are more fun) as it gives me most of the things I want.
If you want people to go for alerts, make capturing territory fun. Dont blame biolabs or the playerbase.
Separate names with a comma.