what if the flare ve6 was given 0.75 ads

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by coldguy111, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. coldguy111

    what ive heard is the flare is a downgrade compared to its equivalents so what would happen if the flare had the orion doom trait of 0.75 ads
  2. UberNoob1337101

    Not a lot would change.

    Ursa would still be a better choice, it is significantly more accurate and just looks cooler. The advantages of Flare, including the assumed addition of 0.75 ADS won't change a lot, since Ursa has a faster reload and is more accurate in every single way. (First shot recoil is 1.5x, Flare has 2.0x, Vertical recoil is 0.4, Flare is 0.45, Ursa reloads more than one second faster than Flare, and Ursa has a gorgeous model while Flare can be mistaken for almost every other VS LMG)

    The gun's under-used because other guns do it's role better, and that's being a proper mid-long range LMG, it also looks super generic and is too similar to Ursa, which is a better gun because of the said reasons.

    It needs something to stand out so it isn't a cheaper and weaker Ursa. 0.75 ADS move-speed isn't the most unique thing for a mid-long range LMG, but it's very good all considered.

    I'd like if they made it a VS variant of Gauss SAW S, good at most ranges but not top notch at any while preferring longer ranges because of the better damage model and rate of fire and probably 0.75 ADS. Right now it's a worse Ursa.
  3. coldguy111

    how about the polaris?
  4. Eternaloptimist

    My absolute favourite ES LMG! But then I go for guns that are pretty consistent at a variety of ranges. I find Polaris shots tend to stay more closely grouped over longer distances than the other weapons (and I've tried them all except the Ursa which has too slow rof for my liking). Took me ages to try Polaris as it didn't seem to have any stand-out features. from reading the stats. BUt I got there in the end. Good range of attachments too.
  5. coldguy111

    With a mobility buff added to the lackluster lmgs would people start using the rest of vs heavy assault arsenal over the Orion
  6. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Sadly the devs are only listening to the people saying that 0.75 ADS is OP when there is a mountain of statistical evidence to the contrary so I doubt that's in the cards.

    I do agree that with the upcoming VS LMG nerfs the Flare getting left out of receiving anything to compensate for the nerfing of the Orion, massive nerfing of the SVA-88, decent buff to the Pulsar, and minor buff to the Ursa is just another in a long line of overnerfs that the devs have given VS and would instead propose the following additional changes that would keep the VS competitive in one of the few places we still are.

    Orion: Leave in it's soon to be nerfed state
    Pulsar: Leave in it's soon to be buffed state
    SVA-88: Moving COF ADS changed from 0.4 to 0.3
    Ursa: Moving COF ADS changed from 0.35 to 0.3
    Flare: Moving COF ADS changed from 0.4 to 0.35

    This way VS LMG's and AR's will actually have a theme in that they have the lowest moving COF ADS modifier.
    • Up x 1
  7. Gemenai

    No thanks i don't want a x0.75 on my flare.
    I would rather want it to be more precise. The bulletspread in burst mode can go crazy.
    Or give it surpreme bullet speed.
    But again pls no ADS multyplier. I have no real need for it and the other faction would only start to ***** around again and blame that feature for their "skillz".
  8. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Oh, and while we're discussing LMG changes I really do think the T-32 Bull should be bumped up to a 698 ROF without changing anything else on it.

    That way TR get 2x750 ROF 143 with one of them trading DPM for accuracy, 2x698 ROF 143 again with one of them trading DPM for accuracy, 1x577 ROF 167 that's actually really nice and will get better with the LMG update, and the EM1/Polaris/T16 LMG.

    TR should = dakka, and that's a pretty strong line up of dakka and then being able to switch between DPM and accuracy at those dakka rates.
    • Up x 1
  9. Erendil

    I agree that it's wrong for the Flare to be left out of this "VS LMG Balance Pass." If you look at the weapon stats, it is literally a worse SAW S / TMG-50.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...577&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

    Reload: SAW S > TMG-50 = Flare
    Vertical Recoil: Flare > SAW S = TMG-50
    Horizontal recoil: SAW S = TMG-50 > Flare
    Horizontal Tolerance: SAW S > TMG-50 > Flare
    Recoil Recovery: TMG-50 > SAW S = Flare
    FSRM: TMG-50 > SAW S > Flare
    Muzzle Velocity: SAW S > TMG-50 > Flare


    Of those 7 categories, it's the worst in 4 of them, tied for the worst in 2, and the best only in 1: Vertical recoil, but only barely (.44 vs the SAW S / TMG-50 at .45) and is the only one of the 7 stats that can be overcome with skill.

    It definitely needs something. I don't think giving it .75x ADS movement is a good idea though. There are many players who feel that shouldn't be on any ES LMG. And I really don't want it to go down that road if for no other reason than to get the TR/NC to shutup about it. :p

    For the first year of the game all VS LMGs except the LSW had a moving ADS COF of .35, and the Flare was a noticeably better weapon back then. This was taken away from only the VS LMGs in PU02. So restoring that .35 to the Flare would be a good step towards making it competitive against the other 167-damage LMGs

    I'd also like to see it get a ROF increase to 600RPM. That way, it'd still be less accurate overall than the SAW S and TMG-50, but it would get more teeth for its close/mid range role.
  10. ATRA_Wampa-One


    Eh, I'd say it either needs the 0.35 moving ADS COF or 600 ROF, but not both since it would be up there with the Anchor which is the best non directive LMG in the game and just asking for even more VS nerfs.

    Bumping the ROF to 600 but keeping the 0.4 moving ADS COF would make it an EM6 with 25-50 less rounds but SPA, while keeping it's ROF but reducing the moving ADS COF would make it a GD-22s with more rounds and SPA but with a much longer reload time and a bit worse accuracy.

    But yeah, the official reason for the PU02 nerf was because "The VS carbines and assault rifles retain their high moving accuracy because it offsets them having lower magazine sizes and a lower than average rate of fire, which are traits that the VS LMGs don’t share." which is BS since the larger magazine VS LMG's already have a longer than average reload time to compensate for the larger magazine.

    Also of note, the TMG-50 has the exact same magazine size and reload speed as the Flare yet is getting a 0.35 moving ADS COF... so here we have yet another example of hypocrisy from the devs.
  11. coldguy111

    So an increase in rof would bring it on par to its equivalents
  12. ATRA_Wampa-One


    DPS or accuracy boost, but yes. Definitely not both.
  13. Gemenai

    I take the accuracy buff, thanks.
    • Up x 1
  14. AlterEgo

    The Flare is the first gun I've Auraxiamed in this game; it is perfect. Actually, it USED to be perfect, the reason being that it was incredibly affordable before the cert changes, a gun that did better than the Orion at range with incredible handling, great versatility, and being a natural bargain. The Flare is the reason I kept playing this game, and although I would like to see it improved, EVERY arsenal should be focused on.
  15. Erendil

    I dunno, the Anchor would still have better: Vertical Recoil, Horizontal Recoil (min and max), Horizontal Tolerance, reload speed, and hipfire COF. The Flare would only have larger mags and lower FSRM.

    What makes the Anchor so good is its accuracy combined with great (not the best, but still great) close range firepower. The Flare wouldn't have its accuracy.

    The EM6 and GD-22S have better H.Recoil and tolerance as well. Although you're right that the comparison to the Flare would be much closer.

    So yeah I think you're right, only .35 ADS or 600 RPM is called for. In that case, given a choice I'd go with the RPM increase. That would help differentiate it from the Ursa, and would further clarify the Flare as the "high firepower, close/mid range" 167-Dmg LMG for VS and the Ursa as the "high accuracy, long range" one.


    Yep. Although I don't think it's so much hypocrisy as it is simply a gross oversight becuase not many people complain about the Flare being bad, and it seems to perform ok based on the Oracle of Death stats (although the SAW S in particular performs much better).
  16. ATRA_Wampa-One


    Same.


    Yeah, I have over 3500 kills with the Flare and still use it over the Orion/Betelgeuse/SVA-88 but that doesn't mean it's not in need of a buff since those other three LMG's are getting nerfed.
  17. AlterEgo

    I want it buffed, of course, BUT I DON'T want a crappy buff. I don't want "extra accuracy," or more "range," I want a special trait for this thing. For example, equip the Flare and you're stuck with it for 24 in-game hours; you can not switch to any other weapon with your VS Heavy. During the day, it fires faster and has less horizontal/vertical recoil, and during the night, velocity is decreased by 25%, it fires slower, but it displays an animation of a battery being overcharged which gives it a heat mechanic. I want UNIQUE crap like this, not a stale little buff. Complicated, but deep and diverse, as well.
  18. Erendil





    Guess I'm the odd man out.


    I'm curious, why would you guys choose an accuracy buff over damage for the Flare when we already have the Ursa?
  19. coldguy111

    you should take what you can get
  20. AlterEgo