[Suggestion] What if Orbital Strike zone around bases would be limited to Sunderers no deploy zone?

When CAI update was first implemented on Test Server devs wanted to remove all restrictions from Orbital Strike, which led to funny consequences. For example you were able to nuke whole Biolab and everyone inside of it. Devs probably wanted to use Orbital Strike for much aggressive involvement in base fights. Idea was scrapped.

So I dug some of my memories from PS1 days and what Orbital Strikes were used for. #1 use of OS was destruction of an enemy spawn point at the base. Nuking the AMS. It might have turned the whole outcome of the combat. Or don't if enemy had few other AMSes to spare.

For now Orbital Strikes are too limited by wide "no build" areas around bases and outposts. Use of it is too situational, only to nuke big enemy forces in the open field or nuke the enemy HIVE.

So my main idea is to reduce the limit of use of OS from "no build" to "Sunderer no deploy" area. This would allow defenders to use OS to destroy enemy sunderers or major vehicle zerg around the base, but it would not allow for attackers to nuke the base itself.

Yet some no use areas need a review, since some sunderer no deploy areas edge happen to be quite close to the spawnrooms. But overall I think that would give base construction and OS use more meaning than it currently has.

I was thinking today about how perhaps the OS range should be increased. Presently 800m is a limitation that means that strike opportunities are pretty scarce. You have to build on the front line meaning that the chance of your base surviving are not great. Then the gen only becomes viable if forces move into an adjacent hex, preferably on your side of that hex otherwise you cannot reach them. Then they just move out of the strike zone anyway.

I'm thinking strike zones should be as open as possible.

Definitely to limited for orbital strike range at the moment and needs to be addressed. I even had a guy accuse me (my faction I was playing at the time rather) of wasting my strike during a huge battle just to kill 4 infantry with it before an alert ended because that was my best available target despite a sundy being about 50m out of blast radius range which would of been a perfect target.

I'm confused, OS could be used on a Bio-Lab to wipe out dozens of people? So god damned what? that's the point of a superweapon to turn the tide of a major battle, send all those people back to the spawn room and give you're assault a chance to take hold. I'd go further and suggest that it should give a debuff to those killed in the strike doubling the time to respawn to a minimum of 10-15 seconds.
This would be a possible solution to the endless Bio-Lab fights a coordinated force could hit the defenders with an OS to put them on the back heal ten surges forward to take up key positions inside before the defenders could regroup.

It would incentivise the defenders to move out and hit the OS uplink before it could be fully charged.

Don't forget, you will fry to crisp allied zerg as well.

How about:

• Orbital Strike and Glaive IPC no-target zones are reduced to Sunderer no deploy zones with an enemy population of 55% or more, in an allied base

• Orbital Strike and Glaive IPC can fully target any allied base in range, on full coverage, with an enemy population of 75% or more (essentially zerg purge)

Both conditions must exist for at least 2 minutes before the strike is authorized, population amounts are determined by current hex population.

Naaah, I think it overcomplicates stuff. Except for possibility to nuke an overpopped base. Besides, what is the use of Glaive other than disrupting Skywall shields? It doesn't do any damage if I remember correct.

Which means, the entire fight is Hunt the bases, siege the bases, never give a **** about the actual base, till the PMBs are all dead...
Any population advantage, just escalates this completely.

As well, makes any defense pointless.
Since the attacker is completely able to eliminate any resistance with the defensive advantage in PMBs:
Followed by enough people to exterminate enemy PMBs while still defending & attacking, by the side with population advantage.
Making it all about the PMBs, and numbers.

Exterminating choke points, outside of the spawn room chokes.

Like you are meant to be stalled by a Bio lab, not hit a button, and the defense is ******.

Defenders can not possibly defend the base, and hunt down the PMBs, across the entire hex, to several hexes, without it being endless, and being completely in the attacker's favor.

Again I have no issue with this, the coordinated forces will be rewarded by pulling back to the teleporter, they can use /re to get some of the pubs out too. The point is to use it to break a siege that would otherwise require a 1:2 pop imbalance.

The actual bases are required for victory on the continent the PMBs are strategic benefits to assist in that victory. You could adjust the charge up time for an orbital strike for balance to avoid it being used too often or before a unit of the defender faction can make a move on it.

Besides, there's nothing to stop the defenders building an OS uplink and nuking the attackers either outside the base or at their OS uplink.

Here I think you're mistaken, 80-90% of bio lab fights I've seen involve 48-96pop with a near 50:50 split by faction. Since some of the attackers must peel off to build the OS uplink it's reasonable that the defenders would be able to spare similar numbers to raid the facility.

In conjunction of a series of satellite bases that circle the Bio-Lab, the battle would be more spread out and the defenders wouldn't be able to camp the doors and wait for all the low BR players to simply fall on them.

A final point I'd make is that seeing Orbital Strikes hit is pretty cool and newer players might stick around more if they saw such things happen occasionally.

Orbital strike and base building in general are way too disconnected from the rest of the game. The huge nospawn zones are the primary cause of this.

An immediate change to reduce the Glaive and OS nofire zones to the same as nodeploy zone is a great idea. I think it's a complete no-brainer.

It will add a pretty significant element to the game. Now not only would there be another chess piece on the board, the entire base surrounding the Glaive and OS are now mean something as well.

I feel as long as the orbital strike has a reload/cooldown its range should not grow but be instantly be usable on the battlefield. If you take the effort to establish a base, long range bombardment should be available in the battle-field. I feel the orbital strike should be used as a precision weapon, not to be made into a overpowered utility, the same with the other artillery construction. It should be <artillery> not something no one wants to use, other than to be useful vs base skyshields and only that. If its an issue with players playing against it, then get in your armor and hunt the source of the fire like warfare is. For the reason of it being effective inside the biolab, that's just lazy dev work. But what its intended to be in all its glory, otherwise in game becomes something else.
Daybreak Games is not SOE Games <<

The Actual bases, not too long ago, were rendered useless by Hives, whom generated more VPs, and more consistently granted the means for victory.

As well, the PMB's existence determines if the base can be actually attacked or defended:
With one, you have the sheer superior defensive capabilities of the PMB, around a weapon that renders the targeted base at any point, to be stripped of all turrets, all players, in one shot.
Followed by the ability to replicate all functions of the lattice bases, beyond the Capture points, in PMBs.

Even split force: PMB need less people to defend than attack.
Making the Defenders have to manage to leave the Bio Lab's highly farmable exits, to engage a fully-automated PMB, with a laser controlled by a local enemy in the battle, some-where - possibly inside a spawn-shield on either side.

So while the defense cuts their force in half or more, to engage one PMB, another is built rapidly, or at the same time.
Given the ease of defending PMBs against all but full zergs, with a small squad...
You basically ensure the defense is always being hit by a OS, by the attackers - Whom at best lose a squad to defend, while the Defense loses entire platoons.

If them camping the doors, means you need to force them to attack PMBs across the entire hex or risk being one-shotted & locked for minutes in a respawn...
I question how you deserve the Bio Lab choke-point to be won by your side.


Orbital strike looks fancy.
However, it was made to break the PMB's; Not to allow PMBs to dictate the capturing of the Lattice.
It is a siege weapon, with capabilities to destroy the PMBs that turtle, & never leave the center.
Yet it also provides them with some incredible defensive-fire, if it was able to target the inferior lattice... the lattice would be dominated rather than made obsolete again by the PMBs.

No Lattice Base can compare to the defensive capabilities of the PMB's.
Nor the firepower.
Nor the automations.
Nor the locations.
Nor the sensor systems.
Not even the abilities: which are artillery, and siege weapons.

But that's not the case anymore, once the alert starts it's 100% Lattice bases that count.

It really depends on the number of people building the base, yes a well-made base with 4+ people can be a hard nut to crack but PMBs are fragile in that they can be permanently destroyed where lattice base cannot.

I think you and I disagree on a point of philosophy here, PMBs were designed with the express purpose to try and force players to think beyond the lattice, they're supposed to have some impact on the overall continent, which at the moment they really don't. Hives are useless after 25k and OS uplink is so situational that you're lucky to get 4 kills with it.

I was discussing this with a friend the other day and a few possible changes to my ideas could be made.

Chiefly an Orbital Shields over Major bases that can be taken down by overloading a generator (possibly just tied into the existing shield generators at such bases eg. when an Amp stations inner shield drops or Bio-Labs SCU is exposed). Until it's down, the base is safe from OS.
Longer Charge times between OS shots might still be needed. Also, we agreed that a radius around all Pain Fields should be excluded from firing upon, so no hitting spawn rooms.

Although a couple of other ideas came to me reading your response. How about a 3-5 minute construction time for OS uplink which sends an alert to everyone on the continent that it's begun making it a clear and present target and allowing enemies to assault the base before construction is complete?
And to prevent platoons spamming lots of OS uplinks one after another, increase the Cortium cost. given I propose making these siege weapons into proper superweapons I'd say 20,000 cortium would be a fair cost to build one. Between that cost and the cost to build a reasonable defencive base, the OS siege bases would be relatively rare and take enough investment of time and resources to justify the firepower.
Hell, you could even link firing it to Nanites costing players say 500-600 Nanites per shot. Limiting their capacity to keep firing even if they have enough power in the OS uplink.

Your thoughts on those amendments?

Ps. I'd also not be adverse to adding some PMB functions to Lattice bases, like AI modules able to activate their Turrets, and/or PMB turrets be able to be built in and around Lattice bases, really just no walls or structures that would be abused to block entrances. You could make those things be powered by the lattice so that if the base gets cut they power down (after maybe a minute of no power).

While I agree that it takes a fair bit of effort to establish a base, I do have to concede that they can be made very strong if an organised unit works in conjunction. There are several locations on Hossin I could imagine Squads forting up with an OS as you describe and simply being Absurdly OP.
4 troops can hold some of those canyons forever.

Given Lattice bases, are the harder-to-defend bases, and Hives literally provided unstoppable VPs from singular locations..
Good riddance to the 90%+ of the map's actual bases, being useless compared to a 20 meter hell-hole, guarded by ghosts.

The Lattice base, can be lost rapidly, the defenses are not automated, poorly placed, and the Spawn is the least defensive position.
While the PMBs can be destroyed, the PMBs can actually be Defended.

And for the 4 people, with the set of automated defenses, repairs, sensors, and formally VP's themselves, how many living players are needed to engage this base?

PMBs, made the Lattice useless - You get more EXP building, You have the best defense in PMBs, You have perfect sensors in PMBs, choice of location, and can sit there to generate VPs, rather than Attack & defend an increasing amount of land.
While every action near said Hive, also is boosted.
Given the Orbital Strike cannon was a siege weapon to handle entrenched PMBs, that can last hours after the last ANT drop-off...
were more easily used by the very PMBs, to nuke opposition, and would-be-besiegers.. It says a lot about the system.

I would love some damn cover from aircraft on the bloody lattice.
PMBs, again, have something that helps mediate the issue of high-alpha damage strikes by the fastest unit in the game, against the sole places infantry can even exit..

However, being able to launch a strike-cannon to empty entire lattice bases, from the superior defensive position that is a PMB, that is fully automated, and able to be rebuilt around the same time it takes to cap the Lattice base..
Is insanity.
You go attack the automated PMB, while the force that needs to defended that if any, is smaller by a grand number, allowing them to send more to the Lattice.
If you say, build your own; Then the Lattice base's ability to be used, is dependent on the shield.
Which is pretty easy to swarm over, given the PMB needs no one to actually guard it - And the grandest thing.
You can build multiple shells.

Enemy has OS, you can no longer keep the Point.
And need more forces to engage the enemy attacking the base, and to overpower the automated PMB across the Hex.
Defense is spread across two bases, with the lattice having no defensive qualities compared to the PMB.

Advantage goes entirely to offense, with the PMB's laser to hit points or concentrations of enemies, and the lack of defensive capabilities for the lattice, whom must split their force across the points, the enemy PMB, and the generators.
And every PMB needs more attackers than defenders, to siege.


You want to alter a siege weapon against PMBs, into something that needs nanite costs, map-wide alerts, and even then due to how PMB's work, is a force-multiplier for defense.
Why must it be capable of assaulting the Lattice, and forcing the defenders to attack a superior defensive position at the same time?

Why not have your PMB, be valuable by itself, without invaliding the lattice, or controlling the lattice?
Can it not be something to amplify aspects of your forces, making it a prime target to destroy & defend?
Rather than something that forces your hand, just due to invaliding all other options.


Lattice bases need work.
However, the thing about automating the Lattice is simple; Poor placement of turrets.
But I have little issue with reinforcing the lattice, beyond the issue of it dominating base defense.
As in, being required, just to defend a base, to own the construction set.

When was the last time you played? Or is PS4 months behind on updates? Hives haven't generated VP in ages. There is NO VP to generate. they refine the 25k required to trigeer an alert then they become useless inert decorations to the landscape. They don't even give you the xp bonus when they'd normally refine 10k after that.

Yeah, most of that is obsolete drivel, 6-8 people can drop most 4 man bases in a few minutes 10+ would likely ruin it in under 2 minutes.

As I said adding the ability to put modules in LAttice bases would be acceptable to me. Go nuts with Skyshields.

As I've clarified, the OS as I've described would be a long-term investment, I think you underestimate the time it takes to gather 100k cortium, 20k on the OS 40-50k on the base itself and the rest to fuel it. That OS being in its vulnerable building state for 3-5 minutes too. If it goes there goes 20k cortium. Even once it's up it would likely take at least a minute or two to charge enough to reach even a medium range target. And that's before my proposed delay on the charging time. Jesus, you'd have at least 7-10 minutes before it could get off a single shot then 4-5 before it could fire again. If each shot cost 600 Nanites the first shooter would only have a max of 400 Nanites after 5 minutes requiring a second operator to sac their nanites for the next while.

Because as I've explained, presently building bases serves no purpose, Hives have no value after an hour or so work and OS is lucky to get more than a single enemy. They need to be integrated into the game in holistic fashion, yes sometimes a well-made base would turn the tide but it's far from unfair. So long as a message goes out like when a Hive gets captured there should be ample opportunity for an attack to be made on the OS, a lot can happen in 10 minutes of planetside. Beside which nuking a base you're attacking is likely to wipe out your own forces too.
When you consider it the time taken to build the base, then the OS, then old it until you get one shot would be effectively 20+ minutes work for a squad of that faction. Frankly, if the game's still stalled at the same base they were targeting then it desrves to get nuked just to stir things up.

I doubt it would be required, the bases aren't that bad at the moment, well not all of them, and besides. Anyone building a base structure at a Lattice Base isn't building on at an OS uplink.

PS. No idea why the formatting bugged out, tried to fix but didn't work.

I don't play PS4.
I literally just said, they USED TO GENERATE VP.
Understand a basic concept of time.

4 man bases, that aren't built in the proper location for Hives.
Or for orbitals, that are wanted to be defended.
Or did you never actually attack a PMB, that was not a ghost-town, let alone more than 4 people?
6-8 people = double the people btw.
So if it's 4 people, and it needs 8, a base made by 6, is a squad.
A squad, makes half a platoon.
math.

Building bases, should not dominate the entire gameplay of the lattice.
They are not the Overlords of the bloody map.
Find something that links in, not that controls every other aspect of the game.
This isn't "Builder Overlord combat" with players as drones to attack their installations.

Long Term investment, that controls the lattice nearby, in a better defensive position than lattice, grants EXP for the entire action, requires twice the people to engage, and can be rebuilt endless by the opponent.
20k cort, as if it didn't respawn faster than an entire supply of nanites...
You are aware, that the OS isn't one-person only weapontry right? You mention this... yet apparently think 600 nanites is enough to dominate the lattice's entire control scheme.

OS is a siege weapon, to nuke PMBs...
Why do you think it has the blast radius of most PMB's?
Hives; The things that explode killing everything around them.
Hives; the Things that used to dictate who won.
Hives; what no one but the brain dead builds, till the defenses are fully armed.

Nuking the lattice base, forces most of the lattice defenders into the very farm-friendly spawn room.
Which can be held easily by the attacker.
Killing off a dozen of your own, to create a spawn camp, is literally a victory.

You think, you can't build a multiple PMBs, or have multiple people or something?
I can build an OS in the middle of no-where, and build another base else-where with or without it.
My Squad lead, can also build one as they please - Nothing prevents doing both.

The forum software is horrid.

Touche, I misread, but then I don't see why you would bring up an obsolete point during a discussion about the future of PMBs.


As I said, I'd be fairly happy if 12+ enemies decided to remove themselves from the battle for 20 minutes especially when I could lead 24 people at that base in the 12th minute and reduce it to ruin before the 17th. And thank them for the 12 minute window in which to seize Lattice bases.

Besides which, 95% of OS bases built would have 2-4 people at them at most, maybe half of whom would have useful components unlocked to place.

There are many ways to balance an OS against its ability to target bases. You want another way to reduce its power? Make it suck up 5k-10k cortium per charge, that's 9-4 shots before it's needing more cortium in its silo requiring constant support from ANTs.

Do you build bases? Unless you're safe in your own territory the odds of running into an enemy that can kill you is alarmingly high. Consider, you build your base then cap of the silo at 50k, you pull the OS and you're down to 30k 5 minutes later you're at around 24k-19k and you can only just fire one shot. You'd need a coordinated effort to keep such a base operating for more than one or two shots.

Yes, I know that, but 600 Nanites is 12 minutes worth of Nanites limiting their ability to lay mines, C4, grenades and pull armour to defend the base. The defenders desperately trying to muster Cortium, and hold off the attackers running short on Nanites could hold up their ability to launch their OS.

Yes, that's what it was designed for, however, given that even the most secure Hive is a deadweight after 25k leaves the OS essentially a useless tool. Yes back when Hives meant a damn then they had a purpose, they need to be repurposed to once again matter. And doing it in a way that engages OS with the Lattice is important, otherwise, PMBs will perpetually be playing a different game to Lattice players. (the issue Hive VPs had).

No, as you pointed out the OS has a PMB sized blast. there are very few Lattice bases small enough to be encompassed by the blast, especially when I've already stated that Spawn rooms and Teleporter rooms wouldn't be able to be put into the blast radius.

You seem to be deliberately ignoring the preconditions I've been suggesting of 20k cortium cost to build the OS Uplink, yes you could be trying to build several at once, but they can only be so close together and the more spread out you make them the easier it is for them to be ganked during construction. Besides, the delayed charging time would mean a middle of nowhere base might take 10+ minutes to get a shot in range. If you include the new suggestion of 5k-10k drain per shot then it'd take a lot of effort for a solo/few people to maintain a middle of nowhere OS that would get one shot every 10 minutes.

Powerful yes but getting 12 kills every 10 minutes is slower (assuming you catch a full squad) isn't exactly an impressive kill rate. And the times between shots for that give ample time to seize a base.

Why I bring it up:
As people keep wanting a similar level of dominance over the Lattice, for the bases.
As if they didn't just finally stop being the end-all VP source.

Yeah, 12+ shooting at automated defenses, and walls.
While you have fun killing them, or engaging elsewhere, possibly with a massive laser.
They play "shoot the wall" and "Shoot the module" in a potential hell-hole of automated-guns.
They get less certs as well, for the destruction, than the builders got for harvesting the cort for the modules.
And that's more work, and deaths, than harvest cort at the warp-gates, friendly land, and enemy land with a cloakable armored vehicle.

Ever fought at a base of 12 people, or those who built the old Hives that did lock continents?
Given the lack of needed people on the ground, the ability to just use air to lock down any siege, and raid the Lattice from the base, while sending 2 of 12 people back, holding off them all easily..
It's one-sided to hell.

600 nanites to wipe out an entire lattice base's defenders outside of a spawn room, through walls, roofs, and underground.
Given the defensive position, and ease of repeatedly firing the darts, Time is on the PMB's side.
Just as is time on the Attackers side against the lattice.

20k isn't much.
Given the ease of collection of it, and the durability of Ants, it just means besieging fortified PMBs becomes 20k expensive.
While those building it to attack, will already have the cort for it, ready in moments.
Proper building squads are 12 people; That's 12 ants.
Ever been to Connery? VS loves to build in a damn hurry.

Attacking a Lattice base, the Offense has all the time in the world.
If the point is contested, only the Defense must rush.
Against a PMB, unless completely & utterally surrounded, with AA defenses around their forces, they can still receive cort.
Not to mention, how long a Base can last on its supply of cortium: a long ******* time.

12 kills, if you fire at a location with 12 people.
Bio labs are hundreds.
Proper defenses are 30-100+
PMBs are the locations where people number in 12's or less, due to needing less people to defend.
Lattice Bases need as many as possible, due to the poor design.

All you need to do, is break the defender's singular choke-point, or defense once.
Rush in, and watch your forces attack the spawn.
1 single shot, and the entire base's defenses are basically shattered till the cap.
If not, then the attackers hold the base for enough time to shatter the defenses again.
Only the Defenders are on a time limit.