What I don't get about three carbines.

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by LegoFarmer, May 29, 2013.

  1. lilleAllan

    You know what the NC/VS don't have? A 40 round carbine.
    When they get that, then you can start crying.
    • Up x 2
  2. Vastly

    A while ago I took off the advanced laser and put on a grip instead. I'm sure it was making my horizontal recoil bounce uncontrolably all over the place and I was starting to really hate it. It's now back to being my go to weapon when not strictly fighting in shotgun territory and I find the default COF adequate for my needs given my ADS preference.
  3. Wolfwood82

    It's been mentioned that we out DPM all of them. Yanno what I've noticed when I play VS/NC though? It hardly matters. 10 extra rounds amounts to 1 extra kill on a weapon with slower reload speeds and less accuracy.

    Give me a 30 round carbine any day. 40 rounds is something you don't really miss much when you change from TR to another faction, the better accuracy and faster reload speeds are immediately noticeable when you go back though.
    • Up x 1
  4. Erendil

    1. Use your shield. I hear it stops bullets quite nicely.
    2. The "insane damage output" od ZOE MAXes amounts to ONE less bullet to kill a softie if memory serves. Huge improvement, yep. :rolleyes: And come GU11 ZOE MAXes will have their additional vulnerability to small arms fire increased by 50%. Wait until after that before jumping back on the ZOE Cry Train.
    Serpent Horizontal recoil = 0.25/0.25
    Lynx Horizontal recoil = 0.225/0.25

    Nice try tho. ;)

    ....Oh, and:

    Serpent Muzzle Velocity = 420m/s
    Lynx Muzzle Velocity = 450m/s

    There are a few things that the Serpent is very good at. Range is not one of them. :cool:
  5. NoctD

    As always, people keep forgetting the no bullet drop, a VS only special. :)
    • Up x 1
  6. Kronic

    Recoil angle values:
    Lynx: 35/45
    V86-7: 20/30
    Serpent: -30/-20

    Recoil angle has much more bearing on horizontal recoil than the actual horizontal recoil values. Easy mistake to make though.
  7. Wolfwood82

    What he said.

    Also at the ranges we're talking about, 30m/s difference isn't noticeable. In other words, without a spreadsheet to draw pretty much ALL of your "information" from for this argument, you would not have noted a significant difference between the two weapon velocities. The difference of recoil pattern on the other hand, is very noticeable.

    Spreadsheet continues to be the source of these petty disputes.
  8. HeadshotVictim

    1. I heard that one too about the shield. Would like to see it in combat though.
    Strangely enough I take SO much damage even with my shield on I can't say it was worth the certs. (Okay I have only rank 1, but it still should block sniper rifle dmg - to be more precise more than ~50% of sniper rifle dmg, which in more than enough cases doesn't. Combat experiences may vary. Perhpas it was a false perception.)

    2. If one bullet more or less per kill doesn't really matter, can't we lower the first-shot recoil of NC weapons a bit? Since the only thing that differs NC from TR or VS carbines is one dmg tier and some recoil. Since the damage tier doesn't matter, the recoil and handling should be adjusted, right? (Or does the "one bullet more or less" matters when it comes to infantry vs infantry suddenly? :p)
    I await GU11. At the moment VS-Maxes are just stronger infantry without drawbacks. They have the same speed, better weapons, more ammo, take less damage and can be healed AND rearmed by one guy, while every other infantry needs a medic AND an engie to do the same thing....oh and they have higher strafe sped which makes it pretty hard to hit them when they strafe at doorways.
  9. Erendil

    Nope, no mistake here. I was refuting your claim that the Serpent was easier to use at range, not how its angle of horizontal recoil drift over time compares to the Lynx.

    IME the angle of horizontal drift makes almost no difference on how easy a weapon is at range, beyond a simple "Yes it has drift" or "no it doesn't" and the direction it pulls. It's relatively easy to compensate for drift regardless of the angle it takes. :cool:

    Horizontal Recoil OTOH can't be corrected at all by the firer and so has a much bigger impact on a weapon's medium -> long range accuracy than drift angle in competent hands. For example, the small H.Recoil suffered by NC weapons is the main reason why they're more accurate at range than TR/VS weapons during aimed burst- or sustained fire.

    So yes, the Lynx has a more H.Drift than the VX6-7. But that certainly doesn't make it any harder to use at range than the VX. IMO. :cool:

    Yep, 30m/s isn't noticeable. It will still make you miss more shots with the VX whether you notice it or not though. It's a statistical inevitability, albeit not a big one. The fact that an observant player such as yourself (no jab) has to go to a spreadsheet at all to notice a difference between the weapons is enough to debunk Kronic's assertion that the serpent is easier to use. So thank you for pointing that out and adding to my case. :D

    However, the H.Recoil difference is both noticeably different and noticeably worse on the VX compared to the Lynx during burst aimed fire, which is how you normally fire at targets at range. Or at least it is to me.

    And even though the H.Drift is also quite noticeably different between the two, IMO it doesn't make either one of those carbines worse at range than the other. Which was my point. For the record I'd say they're both fairly equally bad at range to each other. ;)

    Oh, and I found this whole thread to be rather tongue-in-cheek, so in this case anyway I wouldn't really call it petty. Entertaining, more like. :p Odd forumsider humor....

    1. I wish I had hard numbers on their shield's effectiveness. My experience has been mainly in fighting against them. :cool: The shield certainly seems to let NC MAXes tank a helluva lot more bullets than without it. It definitely makes them bolder. :D

    2. I never said that one more bullet didn't matter. It just doesn't take the VS MAX damage output from "relatively balanced" to "insane." So no, you can't have NC weapons' recoil reduced. :p Although tbh for many infantry weapons I prefer the NC ones. Too bad we can't loot 'em in PS2 like we could in..... what was that other game called again? ;)

    But yeah, ZOE's in their current form are a bit OTT. Hopefully GU11's nerf will make them more reasonable. Maybe then the 4th Empire chavs will stop stinking up our ranks and go crawling back to the TR/NC. I'm sick of fighting w/ 40-50% VS world pops on Mattherson whenever I'm online....
  10. HeadshotVictim

    I hate getting killed by BR 3-15 VS with a Server population of 50%.
  11. Wolfwood82

    No it wouldn't. CoF bloom MAYBE, but that's pushing it. With velocity, if you miss, it's because you aimed poorly, not because the bullet travels 30m/s slower then another gun. This is a constant number that is easily compensated at the ranges the weapon was designed to engage at.

    The only reason you even mentioned it as a "problem" was because it was a number on a spreadsheet someone else worked up, and it's something to complain about.

    This statement is exactly why you erred. His statement was meant to point out that the angle of the side recoil was what determined it's accuracy from recoil. You may or may not have noticed this but the human figures you shoot at in the game are taller then they are wide. The Lynx has a harder time staying on target because it's angle carries it off center faster then the Serpent which has a much less severe angle. This makes the lynx harder to compensate for and harder to aim.

    You attempted to refute his statement and looked at the wrong information to do so.
  12. Erendil

    Guess what else is a constant number that is easily compensated for? That's right, Horizontal recoil angle, which Kronic claims makes the Lynx harder to use at range. :p

    But you're right, in real terms a 30m/s slower MV won't make any difference in 99.99% of the firefights out there, especially for a CQC carbine. Statistically though, the longer travel time means there is a greater chance of the target's position to suddenly/coincidentally change after the trigger is pulled just enough for the shot to miss, as well as more time for net lag/ploss to come into play. Which is why I called it a "statistical inevitability." :cool: But w/e, that's just nitpicking, so lets move on....

    No, I mentioned it on the Serpent to illustrate how bad it is at range because it has the slowest Muzzle Velocity in the game out of any non-MAX primary weapon outside of shotguns and SMGs (well, and the Lasher), and it's generally accepted that lower MV weapons are less accurate as range increases than higher MV ones. I gave the Lynx's MV as a reference in case someone else thought it was slower than the Serpent. I wasn't saying that the 30m/s difference made the Serpent worse. As I said, IMO they're both equally craptastic at range. :D

    And really, who gives a **** who mined the data from the game files?

    No I didn't err at all. You just misread my intent and assumed I made a mistake - I'm guessing because both stats have the word "horizontal" in them. :p I know what he was trying to say. I just disagree with him. :cool:

    I was refuting the first part of his statement - his assertion that the Serpent is easier to use at range - by offering a stat that is worse on the Serpent than the Lynx and one that IMO has more effect on accuracy than recoil drift angle at the range we're talking here (presumably as we approach their max effective range).

    You see, H.recoil is always either equal or worse on the Serpent than the Lynx, especially during burst fire (you are using burst fire against targets at range, aren't you?) where the Lynx is noticeably better on the first few rounds. And no amount of skill or practice will let you change that at all. And just like the muzzle velocity, H.recoil is worse on the Serpent than any other weapon in the game, outside of SMGs and the CQC Assault Rifles.

    So no, IMO the Serpent is not better at range than the Lynx because even though its recoil angle is more vertical, its horizontal recoil magnitude is worse, especially during burst fire. And the more horizontal angle on the Lynx does not make it harder to use because of the fact that horizontal drift (the angle's effect on recoil) can be compensated for regardless of the angle in question, whereas horizontal recoil cannot.
  13. ShumaKun

    From my experience (see below) Serpent is better at range then Lynx you probably don't know how to handle this weapon.
  14. Wolfwood82

    Seriously "recoil is a constant"... You once again prove ignorant because you yourself posted the numbers, the Lynx has a variable recoil of .225/.25 making it NOT constant. So once again, the Lynx is harder to aim then the Serpent.

    You're wrong. Undeniably, inexcusably, unconditionally, irrefutably wrong.

    Discussion is over.
  15. Erendil

    And you once again show your failure at reading comprehension since I was talking about recoil angle in that statement. Although in my eagerness to counter-jab your patronizing post, I see I forgot the angle of 35/45 is variable as well. My bad.

    But my position still stands, no matter how many adjectives you slap in front of the word "wrong." IMO horizontal recoil makes more of a difference than recoil angle with these two weapons. And your statement about its variability shows me you don't understand how it works. Since you can't compensate for it, the Lynx's variation in min/max values does not make it harder to aim than the Serpent since the Serpents' H.recoil is never worse than the Lynx's. Its an RNG that is sometimes better on the Lynx (like during burst fire), sometimes the same on both, but never better on the Serpent. And its enough of a counterbalance that since GU08 neither one has a noticeable range advantage over the other. I still contend they both suck about the same at range.

    Not that it matters though at this point.. Since you obviously didn't bother reading anything else I had to say and just focused on one momentary slip-up (which you couldn't even get right since I was talking about angle), yeah, this discussion is over.
    • Up x 1
  16. Hagestol

    Our advantage is versatility and mobility. Bullet drop doesn't factor in outside of some inf weapons, slugs and a bit in HA weapons. Carbs aren't affected by drop in any meaningful way.
  17. Unclematos7

    No bullet drop..........and spandex.
  18. Joe_da_cro

    TR has 0.75x carbs
    NC has 0.75 AR
    VS has 0.75 LMG

    if you want a 0.75 carb its the the NS11-C otherwise you are playing the wrong faction if you want the 0.75 carbs.
  19. ladiesop

    Everyone gets native (non-NS) 0.75 AR.