What defines a good outfit?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Turiel =RL=, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. Ronin Oni

    It does. Some outfits require more micro....

    I won't even mind fighting in one, but don't micro me, just let me know what the obj is and I'll work towards it. You can even call out needs like if the point hold is short on medics or engineers or whatnot, and there's a good chance I'll take the intiative to fill it.

    TELL me I need to change, and you can be sure I'm going to do the opposite.

    It's a difference in how you treat the players. Do you treat them as just grunts to order about? Or do you treat them as independants?

    It's more about respect than anything IMO.
    • Up x 1
  2. AxiomInsanity87


    That all depends on how you want to play it.

    It CAN be that mindless and stupid if you want it to be. If i needs certs and don;t care about any of that, i run medic in a zerg as myself lol.
  3. AxiomInsanity87


    Nappies. He told me of one time when he had to do reconnaissance and was not to use his gun unless needed and had to lie in the same position for 2 days and had to do the dirty there and then lol.
  4. ModsFreeAreForTV

    Am I really the idiot? Or is the guy setting up invisible rules and ways to play that the game doesn't even implement the idiot?
    • Up x 1
  5. Ronin Oni

    Pretty standard story :p

    Never had to piss myself though (or **** myself :eek: )

    Good reason to never become a sniper
    • Up x 1
  6. Ronin Oni

    I'm not setting up rules genius, I'm playing the game.

    The game gives more XP for what I do than what you do, so you tell me who's "playing right:" then.

    You can go on and be a useless waste. A waste of a player slot. A waste of your own damn time. Whatever. Don't bother me none.

    But your complaints are moronic when you don't even play the damn game right.
  7. AxiomInsanity87


    Your stats tell me that you die in most of your engagements. Your score/min tells me you spend a lot of time camping and doing nothing.

    When i put them together it tells me that you camp a lot to try and play stealthy, but you die when it comes to the crunch.

    Is that your idea of fun?.
    • Up x 1
  8. Pat22


    His idea of fun is sitting outside an enemy spawn room and competing with the other 100 people shooting at it to kill the dozen people inside while his empire loses probably every other base on that front.
    • Up x 2
  9. ModsFreeAreForTV

    Nah, to keep it 100 with you I just sit in the Zerg and fire at people while there's 40 people in front of me acting as meat shields. **** it's slow and sometimes I die but I don't have to do any work and I sometimes get lucky kills or steal kills from others. To bring stats and kill counts in it is arrogant considering I could care less if my KDR is 0.01. As long as I don't have to put in effort I'm good.
  10. ModsFreeAreForTV

    Exactly.
  11. AxiomInsanity87


    I think if you did care less you'd probably be alseep.
  12. ModsFreeAreForTV

    It's 3 pm here, I'd be asleep why? I play PS2 to get to BR100, be it fast or slow, skilled or unskilled, doesn't matter to me.
  13. AxiomInsanity87


    Nevermind lol.
  14. Ballto21

    No white after labour day
  15. Taemien

    A good outfit/guild/clan/tribe/fleet/whatever requires quite a bit to keep it going.

    First we'll start with the Leader... the Chief, Founder, whatever you want to call it. This person believe it or not, doesn't need a ton of experience in the game or even outside of the game. They need a basic understanding and they need the ability to be adaptable, flexible and keep an open mind as whatever game they are playing can change drastically with a path.

    They do need to be Charismatic. People need to feel like they can trust the Leader and feel a desire to follow them. This is a very hard trait to work on and pretty much is you either have it or you don't. Part of what is needed for this is the ability to be around ALOT. A leader needs to pretty much treat their position as a second job. They need to be online, available, and seen alot. A group with a leader who is frequently absent seems detached even if the secondary leadership is always present. When the leader is seen every day or nearly every day. The members see the group as one that has a solid foundation.

    The leader needs to command respect. This one is tough. But they have to be a believer in what they are doing. If they believe their group is the best, pushes them to be the best, and seeks the well being of the group over themselves. They will earn respect. This sort of follows the charismatic line a bit. But its very important. If the leader believes (and doesn't just say it, but actually believes) that his group of players is the best, it raises morale. Everyone will start giving more than normal.

    Trust is an issue as well. Leaders need to be trustworthy. They need to be seen as someone to follow but also someone that has your best interests in mind. Leaders should be taking care of their members over themselves. This is actually relatively easy in PS2. Certs are earned by individuals. Its not like gear in MMORPGs. But selflessness is still something you can have in PS2. If you take the time out to show your newer members the ropes on how the outfit operates, they feel like they are part of something bigger than themselves. When you make them better, they will want to make you and the group better.


    Next up is the officers. You need squad leads and platoon leads (if larger). These players have to be pretty much miniature versions of the leader. They need to be charismatic but so much as the Leader. But they need to be as selfless, trustworthy, and adaptable. They need to be better at talking one on one as well, as they will handle most issues while the Leader is doing what Leaders need to do, Leading. They need to be unbiased and fair. They need to be organized. And finally they need Squad Leader Certs. This is just a given.. Squad/Platoon Leaders have smoke, waypoints, and beacons they are responsible for. Anyone without a beacon has really no business being a Squad Leader.


    Then you have the member's themselves. When recruiting, you don't want your people to have to jump through hoops to join. Leave the applications to RL jobs. This is a game. Unless its for tournament play, keep a relatively open house policy. If you get moles then feel free to tighten up. But those are going to be relatively easy to weed out.

    Don't ever try to inflate numbers by keeping inactives. Players aren't stupid and if I join an outfit claiming to have 300 members and I see 5 online, and dozens being logged out for over a month.. its a dead outfit. Prune your rosters. You may have many ranks, but you will have 3 basic roles, newbies, members, officers, and leader(s). Prune out newbies if they haven't logged in a week or two (if someone joins and logs off for over a week, they're not serious about joining the team). Members to about 3-4 weeks, officers to about a month and a half, and leaders to about the same as officers. This will keep your roster fresh and give an accurate idea of muster strength.

    Keep your members engaged. If you see them online and not in a squad, invite them to one. They didn't join to go solo. And if they decline to go solo.. you may want to consider sitting them down with an officer or yourself (if leader) and see why they are preferring to solo, especially if its habitual. Something could be up like an argument with another member or an issue with how something is led by the leadership. Or it could even possibly be a mole (especially if they are in the VOIP at the same time). Moles are rare though, too much work for little gain in PS2.

    Members need to feel comfortable with Officers and Leaders. There should NEVER be any US and THEM situations. Everyone should feel comfortable around each other and mythologies of higher ups kept down. The only difference should be who's running websites, VOIPs, and has the star in their names during the game. Of course.. the leaders are there to enforce discipline, adjudicate disputes, and keep things going. But flexing muscle should be kept to a minimum if possible.

    Nothing wrong with telling peeps to clear comms and laying out objectives. But don't try to tell people when to be online, and micromanage.

    This is a double edged sword. As members players need to put the needs and goals of the group over their own. They joined the group to be apart of something bigger then themselves. And only by working together can they be greater than the sum of their parts. Members need to show loyalty to the group, show that they can be trusted and relied upon to see things through to the best of their ability. And finally be able to stay flexible and adaptable themselves. If a SL or PL says redeploy.. do so. If you wish to not, leave the squad/platoon.

    Though if you feel you have a better strategy, feel free to express it.. when time and mission parameters permit. It makes no sense to countermand a goal set in the middle of doing it. It causes confusion and you disrespect the person leading. Instead if there is time, ASK if you can make a suggestion and then politely make the suggestion if asked for it. If they go for it, great. If not.. well discuss with them after the session is over.. on the VOIP (especially if the outfit likes to run open squads/platoons).


    Finally the Outfit itself and its resources. You don't need fancy websites. But if you have a forum it makes communications outside the game easy and painless. If the leader or other members have to be away, its a great way to keep in touch. Its expected that Leaders and Officers will have RL commitments from time to time. But it is NOT acceptable for a Leader to disappear for days without notice. It hurts morale, and if the members don't understand what is going on, they will become detached and lose trust in the group as a whole.

    So if something crazy happens like hurricanes or earthquakes or anything unexpected.. a forum outside the game allows you to give a heads up to your people and ensure that you will be back.

    Additionally you really wish to have a Teamspeak or other VOIP server of some sort. Even if your primary means of communication is ingame, VOIP helps because it allows Leaders, Officers, and Members to chat/talk with each other while Not in game. If the game is down for patching, the VOIP is a great way to get everyone together and prepare for when they do come up. That sounds a little hardcore.. but its actually not about winning so much as giving your members an incentive to group up. Think about it. As soon as the server comes up.. your members will have a squad or platoon ready to go. Other outfits will be zerging along or PUGing.

    Why is that important? Because Outfits are meant to be large groups of like minded players. You get to play with players you know, not strangers.

    At the end of the day a great outfit will be one where players can make friends, chat with other players of their favorite game (or at least a game everyone has in common), and feel like they have a sense of purpose. Camaraderie builds when you play with the same players on a daily basis. You start joking around about past sessions and escapades. You build experiences, friendships, and strategies. Sometimes you even get to try things new.

    You get the real MMO experience. But to do so its a combination of the Leader, the Officers, the Membership, and the Resources of the Outfit that makes it work. Its a team and any successful team need to work together.

    There's been a little discussion on prior military experience. I want to make a comment on that and give a bit of insight from someone who has served. You do NOT need military experience to be a good leader in a MMO. Does it help? Sure.. but its not a surefire thing.

    Most servicemembers join at the age of 18-20. They are fresh out of High School (some still in if Split-off). What that means is many join when they are immature and haven't been out on their own. Their military service being their first time on their own. Discipline helps with that. But what does that do when they are playing a video game?

    They're still 18-20 year olds. Furthermore they aren't even NCOs so they have experience taking orders, but not so much giving them. Even if they are slightly older they may not know anything outside the miltary and lets face it. Being a 21 year old Sergeant or Petty Officer is vastly different than being a manager at a business.

    A servicemember that brings their experience of leadership into a video game will do well. One that brings their actual service to the game will just annoy the crap out of everyone, especially those of us who have served. In otherwords.. we're here to play a game.. not be at work while we're off duty. In otherwords.. hang up the uniform when you're not on duty. You don't need to be a jerk in game.

    As for strategy. This isn't Real Life. RL strategies (especially since most of those involve elaborate shoot-don't-shoot scenarios and ROE) don't always work here. Respawns throw alot of things out the window, and players are not motivated by survival or fear leaving many suppression tactics obsolete. No.. its best to use methods developed while playing the game.

    Anything you learned to increase morale will work however. But unfortunately that is the least used aspect of military service to game scenarios.
  16. Turiel =RL=


    You are describing an outfit with beginners, guys that have no clue how to play the game and that need constant parenting. Maybe these people need to be told "stand here", "look there", "do this", "don't do that".

    Beginners should indeed join one of the bigger outfits that simply invite everyone (no questions asked) and try to walk them through combat. When you recruit everyone your skill-pool will be slightly below average at best, but at least you will never develop any sort of superiority complex that way.

    Once people reach a certain level of experience constant patronizing isn't needed anymore. In fact, it is superfluous micromanagement that puts the attention on minor details that do not change the outcome at all. Overall such behavior is more harmful than useful, because it puts the focus on stuff that doesn't matter. Once you reach a certain level, everyone should be good enough to know the rules and the exceptions. You simply have to trust your guys that they don't screw up, because you know from past experience that they are reliable and will perform on a high level.

    The problem that occurs during battle when squad-leaders are trying to micromanage is this: The squad-leader tries to put himself of the position of every single player in the squad and tries to make the best decisions for every single one of them at once AND he also tries to follow the orders of the platoon-leader at the same time. That is way too much information to process in real time.

    So in the end the squad-leader either does nothing or he acts like he is totally confused or he dumbs down everything to the level of a 5-year old, so he can keep it under control just like you keep a kindergarten-group under control by assigning simple tasks for everyone. Little Jimmy, would you please grab that cup on the table and bring it to me.

    Right now 99% (and I haven't seen that other 1% yet) of so called "leadership" is nothing other than playing kindergarten-teacher. Still, and this goes back to the initial posting, even in kindergarten you don't scream at children nor do you abuse them.

    I want to add some other aspect to the discussion and that is qualification of leaders. The s... really hits the fan when it becomes apparent that the leader is incompetent. There are many ways to show incompetence on many levels. Picking the wrong targets, running into obvious counters, to name just a few. The ultimate sign of incompetence is when every single operation fails. This is usually the situation when discipline gets enforced by leaders, because you really need discipline when your mind tells you, that you are doing the wrong thing. In Planetside there is nothing at stake, so it's not easy to follow orders that are obviously idiotic and clearly lead nowhere. Sometimes even beginners have enough insight to come to this conclusion.
  17. ModsFreeAreForTV

    Humans are intelligent enough to figure things out without simplistic "orders" (aka neckbeards behind a screen yelling "do this and that") or mechanics and structures guiding them to play the game. If you simply do not NEED (I don't give a flying **** if you want it) any sort of leadership in a game, such as Planetside 2, you should not try to have it be required from other players. If you can win in a mindless Zerg, then that is how you win the game. If you can win with teamwork that's also how you can win, but who gives a **** if you can win with teamwork when you can win by simply joining a crazy herd of people and while aiming and mashing your left mouse button?

    One game that required teamwork was a game called Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter. It is said to be one of the most legendary in tactical shooters ever. If one player didn't know what was happening on the other side of the map, he'd run into a patrol of aimbot driven, crazy accurate Mexican rebels who would obliterate him. It required a sense of communication.

    Now let me make this clear.

    PLANETSIDE DOES NOT HAVE WHAT GAMES LIKE GRAW, RAINBOW SIX, AND COUNTERSTRIKE HAVE.

    It is a mindless *** shooter like the others with the OPTION of being tactical, meaning it isn't tactical. So drop this stupid crap about Outfits, and Squads, and Platoons. If it isn't required, then don't act like it is. Deal with the fact that 90 percent of the player base doesn't want nor need your stupid *** yelling directions at them. End of discussion. Period. Done.

    EDIT: I put it in my signature so you over imaginative brats will remember.
  18. Turiel =RL=

    This whole "leadership"-thing dates back to the draft army in war time. Back then normal citizens got drafted out of their peaceful environment, they gave them guns and send them to battle where they kill other normal citizens with guns who were unfortunately born across the border. In the military you need people to stop thinking and follow orders, because otherwise they would realize that this is dangerous and they would simply refuse to do it and run away. That's what "leadership" is all about.

    Such concepts to solve problems that a real army has to cope with, do not exactly achieve the same thing in Planetside. In Planetside you do not need to force or to motivate people to risk their life. There is no risk since it is a video game and people want to fight (= compete) anyways, because that's why they are playing this game in the first place.
  19. ModsFreeAreForTV

    Bingo. So why even have these organizations like Outfits or Squads if they aren't even needed?
  20. Turiel =RL=

    I assume they help to avoid traffic jam. At least this is what the bigger outfits do.