Terrible weapon. Shouldn't be even available to anyone except infiltrator, so they won't get baited into buying it.
The thing does more minimum damage per shot than other SMGs, but sacrifices a lot of close-range mmph to do so. Can be decent alternative to the infiltrator's full auto scout rifle. Not worth it for other classes though.
You couldn't be more wrong. It's easy to use and well balanced. It's not a DPS monster, but it makes up for that in handling. All ES SMG's have far worse horizontal recoil, even the NC ones.
The PDW is a great weapon for starter infiltrators who want an all-round killer. It suffers at close range but excels in the area in between short and medium range. As far as light assault it is decent but the starter weapons are, in general, better. However it can do some good tree camping if you do those kind of things. Overall, decent weapon that will allow you to play on all factions and all classes (if you buy it with Station Cash), as it maybe a good starter weapon but will soon be replaced with class-specific weapons.
Yes, NS-7 has better recoil than ES SMGs. And worse recoil than just about any carbine. How it is easy to use? Low DPS, low DPM. Hip fire accuracy is a boon, but the weapon sucks up close. The only viable use is 1 vs 1 within 15-25m distance block, where, again, it will be beat by any carbine. There is literally no situation where would take NS-7 over any other weapon. Even NS-11C is better than this PoS.
First, let's exclude all carbines that lack 0.75 ADS because 0.5 and 0.75 weapons are meant for different playstyles and situations. It would be comparing apples and oranges. This leaves us with Jaguar, Bandit, Zenith and NS-11C. All have 0.25 higher starting COF and at least double the bloom per shot from the hip. Second, you're wrong about the recoil. Here are the numbers for all to see: Code: weapon horizontal FRSM vertical NS-7 0.2485-0.2485 1.5 0.2-0.2 NS-11C 0.2-0.2 3 0.22-0.22 Jaguar 0.243-0.273 2.1 0.31-0.31 Bandit 0.2-0.2 1.75 0.437-0.437 Zenith 0.2465-0.2748 2.4 0.295-0.295 Jaguar and Zenith have variable horizontal recoil, the NS-7 wins. Against NS-11C and Bandit, it's very close, certainly much better than any other SMG. But the real kicker is is that the NS-7 has by far the best combo of FRSM and vertical recoil. All the above simply reinforces the point I made earlier when comparing to SMG's - what the NS-7 loses in DPS, it gains in ease of use. And it actually has ever so slightly higher DPS than NS-11C. DPS and DPM have nothing to do with ease of use. Ease of use is synonymous with handling, and as such has nothing to do with damage at all. Given the easy recoil, high hipfire accuracy and low bloom per shot, it's extremely easy to hit the head with hipfiring full-auto up close. Saying it sucks up close is ridiculous, let's not forget we're talking about a submachinegun here, not a battle rifle or a long range LMG. SMG's never suck up close, no matter how you try to twist it. Why are you restricting this to 1 vs 1? Most situations are not 1 vs 1. If you're working as a Light Assault, you want to avoid 1 vs 1 situations like the plague. The recoil of the NS-7 makes it ultra easy to hit moving targets at close-medium range, it's a great weapon for consistent, easy kills on opponents you get the drop on. Other SMG's can do that too, but have lesser range because their higher recoil and ROF makes them harder to track with and they have lower bullet velocity. Compared to CQC carbines, the 400 m/s velocity is only 10% lower, practically just as easy to hit with at medium range. Apart from that, I've personally found the PDW very competitive in 1 vs 1 closer than your 15-25m range, the reason being - surprise - easy hipfire handling. NS-11C, like all carbines, have high bloom per shot for hip firing, and the NS-11C lacks access to advanced laser, unlike the other 0.75 ADS carbines. The NS-11C is meant for ADS strafe fights at medium range, this is obvious from the fact that it's a 0.75 movement weapon with good stand/move COF. The NS-7 utterly destroys the NS-11C in CQC.
ADS movespeed multiplier matters only in one scenario: when you are in a firefight against an enemy who is aware of you, and even then, it's not as important as you make it out to be. It really matters only if you can't take out the target fast enough, and have to dance around him, fishing for headshots. In case it's not obvious enough, I was talking about horizontal recoil, since vertical recoil is pretty much irrelevant as long as it's not overwhelmingly strong. And what I see in this picture is that NS-7 has recoil comparable to Jaguar's, which has nasty horizontal recoil shake. Yes, it does have something to do. NS-7 has barely enough DPM to take out a heavy assault with overshields, and you are greatly punished for missing even a few shots. DPS also matters, because, again, even if you miss a few shots, high DPS will mean that you'll take out the target anyway. Or if you're caught in an unfavorable situation, or confront a more skilled shooter. Yeah, they do suck up close, if they are terrible weapons, like NS-7. Hip firing for headshots requires agility. It is hard. You want to avoid the requirement to go for headshots, but it's not that NS-7 is great at going for headshots, it's just the only way for it to kill anything. Because NS-7 has no DPM to kill more than one aware target. So is ANY carbine... Even the ever-bad NS-11C.
Let me stop you there. You can be fired at by enemies who you are not firing at, while you are firing at an enemy who is unaware of you. In that scenario, as well as the standard 1 vs 1 faceoff, ADS multiplier comes into play. I beg to differ. 0.75 ADS movement multiplier is the most important way a weapon differs from the 0.5 ADS weapons in its class. It means the difference between "I can dodge and use cover while aiming" or "I'm an easy target". Fast enough for what? For him to start shooting? Point about FSRM successfully dodged! Thanks for confirming that. You're still not talking about ease of use. I believe you might still be confused as to what it means - if so, go back to my previous post, thank you. I don't know about you, but I find tracking targets, including their heads, easier from the hip than in ADS, COF notwithstanding. Perhaps this is due to playing a lot of Quake where there is no gameplay mechanic such as ADS, and where hipfire COF is zero. Secondly, you're again making ridiculous hyperboles. Aiming to the head is the ONLY way for it to kill ANYTHING? Are you sure about this? This is not the way, Iridar. I think you missed the point. If you read the rest of the paragraph instead of just reading the first sentence, it will hopefully become clear what I meant. Yes, so is any carbine. The downside with carbines is their lower hipfire accuracy and higher hipfire bloom which puts them at a disadvantage versus any SMG in closer distances. The point I was making was that unlike with other SMG's, "the recoil of the NS-7 makes it ultra easy to hit moving targets at close-medium range". NS-7 strikes a balance between the mid range controllability of a carbine and the close range accuracy of an SMG. Due to the damage, it excels at neither, but is competitive in both.
That sounds incredibly arbitrary. If you're fired upon by a second enemy while you're still shooting at the first, the best course of action is to disengage and duck into cover, not strafe and dodge. For him to kill you. I simply do not believe FSRM matters, especially at ranges where NS-7 can be used. FSRM only affects one shot, and aiming the first shot a bit lower to ensure the second and consecutive shots hit as well is simply a matter of experience. Yeah, there is one small advantage to having low FSRM - the range at which you can aim the first shot at the head, and the second shot will still hit the head as well, becomes shorter. I don't care what you call it. Let's call the sum of DPM, DPS, projectile velocity and controllable recoil the "Bananas on ice". Any carbine has more bananas on ice than NS-7. There is a certain threshold of DPM, where the weapon is convenient to use, and NS-7 is way below it. In case it isn't obvious, I'm not interested in comparing NS-7 to other SMGs, because unlike them, NS-7 doesn't do enough DPS to be competitive in CQC, so I'm comparing it to other weapons designed for engagements within 10-30m: CQC carbines. We already established that NS-7 has recoil comparable to CQC carbines, but NS-7 has lower projectile velocity and way less DPS. It doesn't do anything that CQC carbines already do better. More like sucks at both. No DPS for CQC, no velocity/recoil for range.
Due to the fact that you're preemptively moving while aiming, and that human reaction time is considerably longer than the time it takes for the second enemy to fire several bullets at you, the ADS movement speed is important even if you immediately decide to disengage and take cover. To anyone as experienced as you, it should be obvious that one does not simply avoid an engagement when the opponent gets the drop on you. Why do you say that? The whole point is that the ADS speed allows you to dodge better, avoiding the scenario where he kills you, and realizing instead the scenario where you kill him or you both survive. It is generally thought (as far as I can tell, reading these forums) that low FSRM, high vertical recoil weapons are easier to control than high FSRM, low vertical recoil weapons. In this case, the NS-7 is low FSRM, low recoil. It matters in any situation where you need to burst fire because it allows you to keep your crosshair steady more easily despite holding off the trigger. True. Two ingredients are missing from your banana cocktail: hipfire COF and hipfire COF bloom. These factor into handling because it is a matter of ease of use to not have to ADS. Once you include these, it's not a matter of "NS-7 is way below it", it's a matter of tradeoffs. DPM is not very relevant, DPS is; unless your aim is incredibly bad in which case it hardly matters what weapon you use, you lose anyway. If you're not interested in comparing the whole range from 0 to 30 meters, but instead want to cherry pick a range that suits your argument, you can sign the guest book and pack your bags! Please come again, it's been a pleasure. What it lacks in DPS it makes up in handling. Back to square 1 baby!
I was thinking in a theoretical scenario where I'm on the rooftops, firing at an unaware enemy, and getting fired upon by another enemy. In this scenario, I need to simply make a few steps back to be safe. It's a bit specific, but that's what I had in mind. If my position becomes exposed to enemy LA, then I should sprint and drop from that elevated position to safety. The rocks near biolab entrance is a good example of such a position. And high horizontal recoil, which in the end is the true limiter. If you need to burstfire with NS-7, then you're way past its effective range. NS-7 functions with tradeoffs of the SMG world. Within SMG tier, NS-7's tradeoffs may seem valid. But NS-7 makes tradeoffs in such a way that it becomes better than other SMGs only at 20m+ distance. Below that range NS-7 loses to other SMGs. At that range and further NS-7 loses to carbines. NS-7 is semi-viable weapon for infiltrators; this is as close as they can get to carbine tier. Light Assaults have carbines, which do everything NS-7 does better. DPM matters. If you miss 50% of the shots with TRAC 5, you're still do enough damage to kill a target. If you miss 50% of shots with NS-7, then you don't. At 15-25m, NS-7 is worse than ANY carbine. At 0 - 30m. NS-7 is worse than any CQC carbine. No, it doesn't. NS-7 has handling on par with CQC carbines. Worse than that, in fact, because of the ~7 degrees of vertical recoil variance. Out of all carbines, only the Serpent has recoil variance close to that.
Okay, that is indeed a pretty specific scenario, one that benefits little from the use of a CQC carbine in the first place. The correct weapon for such a situation is a midrange carbine, or at least a carbine kitted out for midrange stability instead of CQC performance. High compared to weapons intended for stable mid range aiming, yes. What matters is it is lower than any other SMG and on par with two out of three CQC carbines. In case you didn't know, burst firing improves the effective range. It is the no.1 reason one burst fires at all. The no.2 reason to burst fire is that the enemy is sprinting and chaging directions, and for purposes of ammo per magazine and COF bloom, it is beneficial to hold fire until you've reacquired the target, instead of attempting to track his dodge in full-auto. Yes. NS-7 is a generalist weapon. Carbines still lose to NS-7 in close range mobility, even though they will have higher theoretical TTK (apart from the NS-11C). I thought by DPM you mean Damage per Minute, not Damage per Magazine. Sorry. You're right, DPM does matter. PDW is equal or better to CQC carbines in the 3-10m range (below 3m one hits everything anyway and DPS is all that matters). The reason is the ability to fire full auto to the head from the hip. Carbines just can't do that. So despite: * high mobility (not all CQC carbines have 0.75 ADS) * low hipfire bloom per shot and superior hipfire accuracy * comparable horizontal recoil, low FSRM, low vertical recoil It's on par with CQC carbines? Bull dung. Vertical recoil variance isn't that important when the vertical recoil is low to begin with. The resulting horizontal jitter is far lesser than what you see resulting from the horizontal recoil on other SMG's. I suggest you go try it in VR, the southeast corner terminal, where there is a Vanu puppet 40+ meters away. The NS-7 PDW is easier to hit with than any of the two TR SMG's, despite all that angle variance.
That puts additional requirements on the shooter, and misses are punished more severely. If you aim for the body with a CQC carbine, and accidentally move the mouse, say, one centimeter right, you'll still be hitting the body, or maybe arm or shoulder. But if you aim for the head and move the mouse one centimeter right, you'll be shooting past the target. EDIT: We're both stubborn and unwilling to clearly admit something on this point. I'm unwilling to admit that hip firing for the head in close quarters with a low DPS NS-7 can be more effective than hip firing for the body with a CQC carbine. You're unwilling to admit that it's much harder to consistently hit the head in close quarters than the body. How about we meet each other half way? Out of this the only important part is horizontal recoil. Variance is important in the sense that having variance is worse than having no variance. And why do you persistently comparing with SMGs? I'm talking about carbines here, it's obvious that NS-7 has better handling than other SMGs, it is its defining feature, after all. I know what NS-7 is, I own it and I've used in the past. Perhaps, after my recent exploits with Armistice I should give NS-7 a chance, but now I'm convinced that NS-7 is a subpar weapon for Light Assault in all situations.
Well, that is a point you've brought up only now - the discussion so far had not touched on how easy/hard aiming for the head is. I agree with you on this one, aiming for the head is harder. But if your argument is that the NS-7 is not easier to handle when comparing NS-7 aiming for the head versus carbine aiming for the body, then that's a rather unfair argument. I don't think you're correct about what either of us is stubborn about. Here's how I've seen our conversation: You're unwilling to admit there is any merit to using the NS-7 at all, despite all the ease of use going for it. In your opinion, the the DPS advantage of carbines trumps everything the NS-7 may or may not be better at (everything being all the things I've put under the ease-of-use umbrella). I agree on: (1) it has lower DPS than both SMG's and CQC carbines, (2) at medium range, it loses out to carbines but wins versus other SMG's, (3) at short range, it loses out to other SMG's. What I am unwilling to admit is that CQC carbines are necessarily better at short range. They deal more damage, yes, but they are harder to handle, which is the whole crux of the matter and the core thing I've been claiming. It's a tradeoff, and you're not willing to admit it's a worthwhile one - for anyone. It's obvious? Then why are we even talking about it? I compared it to SMG's here for sake of argument regarding the recoil variance. Okay, then it might be a user thing, if not user error. I find the NS-7 very comfortable to use as a LA and get good results with it. It allows me to hipfire in about twice as many situations as the Jaguar or Lynx and keeps me more mobile and aware. I'm not at all convinced that it's objectively inferior to CQC carbines, given my own experience with it.
Very well, sir, you win. You convinced me. I'm unwilling to start the precedent though. Can we somehow pretend I won instead? Just joking. So let's do the breakdown then. All SMGs, including NS-7, have extra long effective hip range. This allows the user to be mobile, and dodge incoming fire at ranges where enemy using a non-SMG weapon would be forced to ADS. Quickly dispatching enemies by hip firing at the head is also possible at longer range than what a carbine would allow. NS-7 trades DPS in favor of better recoil pattern and projectile velocity compared to other SMGs, while still keeping the best hip fire accuracy that carbines don't have access to. That sound about right or did I miss something? EDIT: You obviously have more experience with NS-7 than me, would you be willing to write up some tips on using the NS-7 for my LA guide?
i cant tell you much about its stats or raw combat performance. but i love how the gun looks, how it handles, how it sounds (with a suppressor), the feedback when firing from the hip, how the gun bounces when sprinting, etc. in my view, the NS7 is one of the only guns ingame that feels like a REAL weapon (apart from the NS11A and Terran LMGs which i adore)
I tip my hat to you. You're not easy to convince! Sounds good, though I'd add a couple of things: the fact that the PDW does lose to carbines for purposes of ADS'ing at mid range, that's the trade for the hipfire accuracy another one of the things it trades DPS for, compared to other SMG's, is the carbine type damage falloff of 2 tiers to 65 meters; it's actually better than Lynx which drops to minimum already at 50 meters I admit I haven't yet read your guide's section on SMG's. I'll read it and post my thoughts on how the NS-7 should be approached as LA. I can't see the NS-7 on your main's dasanfall profile, have you used it more on your alts? I've got nearly an Auraxium worth of kills on it across all my characters. FWIW, this should back up my personal opinion on how it handles (from my NC alt on Cobalt who's primarily a drifter LA): HSR nearly as high as accuracy itself speaks volumes. Admittedly though, the sample size could be bigger, but I think 135 kills is already enough to draw some deductions. KDR on the Blitz is exaggerated from using it as an infiltrator.
Turns out I have about ~60 kills on NS-7 on my main, and I've barely used it on alts. I thought I had more, to be honest. I've used NS-7 just a bit today, trying to hip fire for the head. It worked.
