[Vehicle] What are tanks supposed to be good at?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Auzor, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. gamespyer0350

    Buses take less dmg due to their short range weapons and higher skill level required to use a battle bus effectively. An mbt with good secondary has far superior range, and in groups supported by repairs can decimate other tanks or sundys. Not to mention mbt get special abilities. A magrider is effective in far more situations due to its mobility than a battle bus. AP mags and prowlers are the worst for my bus if it's anything but an ambush from us.
  2. vanu123

    Oh infantryside. That doesn't change the fact that tanks are a sidenote in the game and have no real purpose. Infantry>tanks. The point is you claimed you know how to use tanks when you have no stats to prove it.
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  3. I play by many names

    Yup its right. Every vehicle is really just a glorified infantry farming machine that sometimes happens to be able to carry passengers, function as a spawn, ect. No vehicles really fill niches anymore. They are all general purpose for the most part. Transports are too tanky and in the current mechanics never really needed much as you stated. Tanks are just glorified infantry farming platforms that aren't tanky enough when used 'properly' as they have been IRL historically and too tanky when used incorrectly, such as without infantry support or in urban environments. All aircraft have poor flight physics and ESF's are waaaay too general purpose. You can make an ESF effective at ANYTHING with almost any load out and have the best mobility in the game outside of redeploying infantry, all while being a solo rambo with absolutely zero team play or support. Game has needed a vehicle revamp for a very very long time.
  4. Dieter Perras

    three hits? Seriously? that'd make it practically impossible to keep a sunderer up in large fights. The whole point of the sunderer is to be a mobile spawn point but how do you expect them to preform this role when they would get killed in seconds from any tank within render distance? Do you want the game to have to require a zerg size force to take a base? Or be impossible for all but the most organized platoons?

    Seriously though all of the sunders weapons that can hurt tanks have either low effective range or low ttks meaning that if you're in a tank and a sunderer kills you it's your fault. A better change would be to make tanks tankier which would help with the issue you seem to think there is without hurting the role sunderers have or assaults in general.

    This game doesn't need more nerfs
  5. ColonelChingles

    IRL 3 hits is extremely generous for an APC, MRAP, or even IFV. How do you think we do things in real life? You know, where losing a transport filled with troops is much more serious than losing an almost-free Sunderer?

    We take some brains with us and secure the area. Then we bring in the thin-skinned transports.

    Intelligence and organization is a good thing and ought to be emphasized. Someone just bringing a Sunderer into a hotzone by themselves without scouts or escorts should have a high chance of being blown up, and when they die they should get a little tip that teamwork saves lives.

    Or you know, bring more than one Sunderer. That works too if you're expecting losses. Those things are cheap enough now anyhow.
    • Up x 2
  6. Dieter Perras

    You know that irl your tank isn't going to be able to survive more then one Tank mine right? and that aircraft have automatic targeting and the ability to unleash destruction on a massive scale right? The point is there is a reason that games don't follow real life and that's because real life isn't fun.

    even then all it would take is 1 tank. 1 to pop up on the top of a hill at a distance and he could kill a lot of sundies before you'd even be able to deter him.

    While this is true and I practically exclusively play in squads what you need to recognize and acknowledge is that not everyone wants to. That on top of the fact that many squads just employ the whole "point the guys in the direction of the enemy and hope the enemy dies" type tactics means that this kind of a change would make the game even more restrictive to those groups.

    I can get three hits on a sundy easy if sundies were that weak you'd need a hell of a lot more then two.
  7. ColonelChingles

    I'm actually okay with tanks being quite vulnerable to realistic anti-tank things (though nowadays AT mines aren't really among them due to improvements in anti-mine armor). Air, for instance, should be one of the natural counters to armor. Then again, anti-air should also be much more effective against air.

    In the end, you have a system where everything realistically has a counter as it does now. Some work better than others, but there really is no "king of the battlefield". No single weapons system is dominant.

    This promotes combined arms and teamwork, instead of this Rambo mentality where everyone on the battlefield is a superhero.

    Again, this is why you need an escort. Sure maybe that one enemy tank might take out your Sunderer, but in exchange your escorting tank would take out the enemy tank who was trying to deal with the Sunderer. And when it comes down to it, tanks should be more valuable than Sunderers. Tanks are the premier ground combat unit, and Sunderers are a dime-a-dozen cheapo transports. So such a trade should be advantageous to your team, because you only lost a Sunderer whereas the enemy lost a MBT.

    I'm admittedly not too fond of lone wolves, so I guess we just have an irreconcilable difference of opinion there.
  8. Dieter Perras

    that may be all well and good for strategy games but in this game everything is a person and all those people want to be having fun and it's just not fun to get killed very quickly by something you had no way to fight back against or escape.

    I think you're forgetting just what it's like for players in the early game when you don't have a good outfit and most of the platoons you end up joining have the cohesion and tactics of a bowl full of amoebas. Trying to get players to forgo their own enjoyment to babysit the sunderers is hard enough in organized platoons that asking the same of a disorganized one is just not going to happen. Perhaps if leadership had a firmer grasp on what their troops were doing and it was more engaging to lead then staring at paint drying then we'd see more tactics used on the battlefield but for now forcing things like escorts onto players who'd much rather just be shooting stuff is just going to make for more frustration then it's worth.

    Everyone has the right to enjoy the game not just people who like the same game play you do.
  9. ColonelChingles

    I think at this point we're pretty clear on where we stand with respect to the entire "teamwork" and "combined arms" issues. I don't think we'll ever convince each other as to the "right" way things should be done.

    But this I would strongly disagree with. Within a game there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way. Games, by nature of their rules and design, have an idea in mind as to how they should be played.

    If my friends are playing basketball according to the rules of basketball, I do not have the right to come in and play the game by the rules of bowling or volleyball. In other words the mechanics of the game trump an individual's right to play the game as they see fit, even if they individually have less fun. This is because it breaks down the mechanics that the game is designed around, so the other players who were enjoying the original design have their game disrupted.
  10. Dieter Perras

    basketball isn't an MMO that depends upon thousands of players as content. Planetside 2 can greatly benefit from being entertaining to a wider audience then narrowing its focus to the small minority that enjoy squad based tactical play in a massive battlefield. I'd use the stalker cloak as a great example of something that works for both lone wolves and team players as in a squad a stalker can be excellent for scouting enemy positions or dealing with enemy AV or sniper nests and lone wolves can use them for, well, lone wolfing without having to worry about taking on 20+ guys at once.
  11. Dieter Perras

    sorry my internets being stupid and slow so this got double posted :rolleyes:
  12. Thesweet

    I think I would be fun, currently this game is so boring with its basic weaponry and insatiable need for balance. I think if they removed rendering for aircraft on ground units(fog of war), added guidedpay loads from infantry or command vehicles targeting for air, then tank would stand half a chance with counters and less being seen unless at a battle or deep recon. Play all aspects of this game and I think this is the only way to make air usefull without it being OP.

    I think the balance banned has gone to far, sure infantry need balance between other infantry, but to compare them to air or vehicles is silly, they play different roles for different situations. I think tanks should be good at killing infantry in out door environments. I think there shouldn't be a large resource penalty on tank, it is the whole point of the game, mmofps=lots of stuff. I do however think there should be a way to deal with massed tanks and that should be airstrikes co-ordinated by infantry.
  13. vanu123

    Never bring in real life to a video game.
  14. exLupo

    Sundy combat durability does make me feel a little weird. Looking at the stats, the live server combat impact of these kits isn't that exciting but when you come up against a pack of them it can be frustrating. Granted, 3, 6, or 9 people coming after 1 (lightning) or 2 (mbt) -should- lean in favor of the larger player investment. Regardless of nanites, there's a 50 to 200% greater opportunity cost due to lost bodies elsewhere.

    I don't see actual problems cropping up but if there -are- use imbalances that dev can see, maybe drop Blockade Armor completely and make Deployment Shield a default aspect of AMS. It'd keep general get-to-the-fight durability and light skirmish strength (hp and resistances) as well as the ability to be a strong spawn location. That would also open up greater viability of the other, far less used defensive slot options.

    In general, I can't say I ever have problems with Sundies but that's could just be due to my play style. As far as MBT viability goes, they seem to be solid. I get killed by them plenty and when their drivers are dumb (getting in close to infantry, not taking cover when being shelled by AV MAX, etc.) then they are great cert pinatas.
  15. Dieter Perras

    Except that you forget we have things like stalker cloakers so one could easily just sit up high indicating targets all day with the other players being able to do nothing but die. Also I don't think that would make for very engaging gameplay for the pilots.
  16. VonStalin

    one sunder is a teamwork, one tank should not be more powerful than teamwork.
  17. Pelojian

    explain your logic because if a 1/3 sunderers is teamwork by spawning infantry then a tank is doing teamwork by destroying said sunderers and other tanks, infantry and sometimes aircraft.
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  18. Thesweet

    Your lack of creativity shows. Indication could have a visible laser of some form so you could, mov vomit of the way as infantry. Vehicles could have some sort of SEAD defence where if it detects a nearby targeting it could launch counter missiles or projectiles to neutralise the targets.

    Skyguards could have secondary role with payload interception, kind of like the sniper bots in planetary annihilation.

    I think it would be very engaging, it would mean less having and looking for targets and more zooming in dropping some bombs then high tailing it before AA gets you. It would give AA build ESF a role, shoot down bombers before they drop their load rather than a boring duel in the comer of the map. As of now, as a pilot, I feel like I can't get anywhere near a large ground fight. I feel like I have no impact, I think my design invokes air into the mmofps more.
    • Up x 1
  19. Alarox

    Clearly a 2/2 flash should faceroll a 1/2 AP Vanguard then.
    • Up x 2
  20. Auzor

    3 hits impossible to keep up in large fights:
    Nothing is survivable in large fights.
    You shouldn't be able to "keep a sunderer up" in large fights.
    Tanks die in large fights too, so do galaxys and liberators...
    You must bring several sundy's in "large fights".

    As mentioned: IMO: 4 vanguard AP rounds for the stock sundy, 5 for blockade into the side.
    This would barely make Prowler front armor better: it takes 4.5 currently to the front of a standard prowler, and 5.24 if the prowler has extra frontal armor. I'd still recommend upping tanks frontal armor by 1 shot needed.

    And no, you can't keep upping resistances for all vehicles; case in point: a "rear first" approaching max rank blockade sundy takes 8.9 vanguard AP shells to destroy. So, about twice as tough as stock prowler mbt.
    The ridicilousness is that this makes it possible to outrepair tank shells when parked in a "garage", and to advance a position into enemy fire better than with a tank.

    As for
    So, Sundy's get to be
    -(near?) unflippable,
    -faster & more mobile (GL driving over the stuff sundy's drive over in a tank.. what am I thinking, using a tank for off-road mobility :rolleyes:) - better damage resistance -all for less than half the cost of an mbt. Not yet mentioned: blockade armor > mbt armor, transport capacity, spawn capacity, ability to change into maxes or change class, option for better AA firepower than any tank (double walker)...

    Yeah, that sound perfectly balanced. Also, nice one "higher skill level required to use effectively". Actually: tank drivers have to aim, shoot and drive at the same time; and are currently more vulnerable. So that is extremely debatable.

    As for your "not to mention mbt get special abilities".. LOL. Take a look at which vehicle is more customizeable... it is the sundy, ammo box, repair box, mineguard, deploy shield, .. and battle bus are all viable, for different reasons. Even a proximity radar is extremely valuable in case of C4 fairy/engy threats. Each mbt gets ONE special ability; lockdown, shield or magburn. Guess what... sundy can bring gate shield diffusor. In a game about capping bases, which vehicle seems more powerfull? I've never seen an mbt deliver 6 AV maxes into a techplant shielded part..
    • Up x 3