We need to have a hard look at the balance of the AI-MAXs.

I agree people are lacking perspective on the issue of MAXes, but not just from the infantry side of things. I know most of you guys have your little warrior code. "I dont ever pull MAXes because their for cowards and terrible players." and whatever else. But as someone who uses MAXes I can safely say, MAXes are way more fragile than a lot of ppl seem to think. As mentioned elsewhere, they have like 10 counters, and are getting even more. Frankly it feels ridiculous at times how many different ways I get killed as a MAX. It's bad enough being a Giant Neon Sign that says "SHOOT ME" without all the Mines, Rockets, C4 and etc. Frankly their getting too many counters, imo, compared to the amount of HP/Armor they have. Nothing else in this game has so many hard counters. The anti MAX crusade is a bit out of hand at times. If the MAXes are really going to have THIS many counters, they need to be buffed, eaither Armor or HP. Make them as hardy as a MBT, they already cost the same amount of resources afterall. Just remove their ability to be rezzed. Half their damage, and make them as durable as a Tank.

And that is very reasonable. However it seems ppl just want MAXes removed from the game entirely, which to me is just ridiculous. However, their massive damage is literally the only reason to bring out such a massive bullet magnet at all, as it currently stands. A MAX is basically a dead man walking, after all whats the first reaction upon seeing a MAX? "HOLY **** A MAX SHOOT IT SHOOT IT SHOOT IT!" It then gets blasted with 3454634546435 bullets, rockets, grenades, sniper shots, etc. Literally the only way a MAX survives a Door Breech 90% of the time is because they have 1 or more Engineer's spamming repair. Otherwise the MAX would be dead in literally 5 seconds, or less. As they currently stand, their survival rate in such situations makes them death wish, so the MASSIVE amounts of damage makes up the difference. With greater livability, MAXes no longer need to deal such colossal amounts of damage.

I'd rather be mad as opposed to being bad like you. Being mad is natural, being bad means you are a loser. Git gud ****ter.

lol

So much mad over one line in my post. So much! Hehehe.

Oh noooo I said something about the heavy shield that wasn't glowing praise aaaaaah! Hehehehehehe!

Aw man, thanks for the entertainment. Genuinely. These balance threads tend to be pretty boring but you genuinely made me chuckle out loud, thanks.

Like I said dude, take a break, you obviously care too much about the game and your own perceived ability in it.

Indeed, and I suspect stats regarding max average life-span will be sober reading, and I doubt their kills will be nearly as "excessive" as people think they are.
Used right they can be powerful, and they obviously one-on-one (I suspect where much of the complaints come from) have a longer TTK against them than an average squishy, but that base time-of-life is quickly nullified by the now well-advertised plentiful counters.
If I come across a max in isolation I just drop C4 or grab a decimator and go on my merry way.

This quote by itself deserves it's own reply. It is the epitome of this conversation with you inventing facts and straight up lying when faced with evidence.

Below is the overlay of a CoF=2 on a 9m target.


Please, invent more lies about how you play TR MAX.

You can nerf MAXes as much as you want as long as you remove C4 from all non-engineer classes.

Lies? If you are going to try and mislead people at least try and be intelligent about it (personally I'd say not to bother as decent aguements don't need it).
So 9m? Not 0-8m then.... and that fella is clearly standing on the 10m grindline (lies? 2m more than 0-8m), so even when you have a gridline showing you the range, your range estimation is still 10% off! (and 20% off the maximum range we were actually talking about! - you talk about degrees of confidance/delta/etc. and then have a 20% margin over the range actually being discussed!)

Also the VR? Wouldn't some people beinging with Q maybe say (and indeed have said) that proves you have no in-game MAX experience? I wouldn't, of course!

So assuming that CoF circle is remotely correct (which is a big assumption to make with no proof - given that it looks to be MAX reticule size! ), once we actually move the target into the range actually being discussed (0-8m) we're back to the reality that it is clearly perfectly possible to 100% headshot with an Onslaught in that range!

I thank you for yet again definatively proving my point correct!

I don't know if you played PS1, but in PS1 AI MAXs were much tougher relatively, but had much less DPS relatively.


This is what I think PS2 AI MAXs should be changed too, so as a very rough rule of thumb it would be:

- cut their DPS in half, but double their toughness


This would IMO, turn AI MAXs into what they should have been (as they were in PS1) melee tanks that move into breaches absorbing damage, but only doing a bit of DPS themselves. So they function excellently with support (both repair support AND supporting DPS from infantry), but aren't DPS machines themselves, yet still are a scary prospect 1on1 (but because they are tough, not because they can body-shot you in 0.36s at 10m).

IMO, the problem with MAX's is that they can be ridiculously OP in small fights or if lots of people pull them, and almost free certs to a competent player or team in large fights. I'd like to see to the MAX become a proper squad support tool, so the changes I propose are the following:

Much, MUCH longer TTK's for MAX's, much more health/resists on MAX's (maybe two C4's to kill) and no resurrect or self-healing on MAX suits. The current MAX abilities should be scrapped and replaced with:

Defence - increased resists, sets weapon RoF to 50%, lockdown mode. When locked down, RoF returns to 100%. TR get a 25% boost to RoF while locked down. NC get a resist boost. VS get screwed (as they deserve!), I mean, repair boosts.

Assault - normal resists, all weapon RoF's are 125%, charge.

Skirmish - lower resists, weapons RoF's are 75%, damage is reduced, but accuracy is increased. Movement speed (in all axes) is increased, and they get a VERY limited version of the Planetside 1 VS MAX jump ability.

Here you go, 8m:


You don't even know how to overlay the CoF circle? Why are you even making claims on CoF size then?

Goretzu
the CoF size to head hit box size at that range makes it perfectly possible

Your repeated history of making arguments supported with no data is laughable. It's even more laughable that when faced with factual concrete data, you then deny and blatantly lie as a last resort instead of withdrawing your baseless arguments. Let's not forget when you challenged the fact that oracleofdeath had an averaging function.

Goretzu
I've never lied anywhere unlike yourself when you said that the site had a totalled running average, which (of course) it doesn't it has a daily average (i.e. each data point) which you supposedly collated into convenient results.

You wasted 3 pages of everyone's time arguing KPH data when you didn't even know how collect averages. Now I'm sure you're going to waste more time arguing over CoF when you don't even know how rationalize them on a hitbox.

I'm sure this trend will continue. So, what lies and whining do you have next?

Insults still just prove you have no counter-arguement!

Assuming that is 8m (which as we have seen is rather an uncertain assumption - given that it could be 8m +/-20% ) and assuming that CoF is remotely accurate (again a big assumption given your track record of claiming youtube comments are "concrete proof", the Blitz and Longshot share 75% of their killing range and saying that the NC AI MAX has been buffed between Jan/Feb 2013 and now! ).

Again you've just proven what I've said is 100% correct, clearly 0-8m you can potentially 100% headshot with Onslaughts, as we can clearly see!

I have succeeded!

i think what went wrong with maxes was that they made them all duel wield. This makes them very hard to balance.

however the easiest way to balance things is to limit access to maxes, as their performance isnt great for their price, but 5 maxes can easily overwhelm 5 heavy assaults. They are very good at dealing with 1 on 1 fights, but when they take on more than one they usually get killed.

scrubs complain they cant solo them, people hate how useless they feel at times with a max. I think they are pretty much balanced for a 450 resource/do it all heavy infantry.

they just anger people no different than homing rockets anger pilots, they do what they are meant to do, and that is that.

If everyone had homing, the sky would be empty, if everyone was in a max, the battlefield would be steam rolled.

its an issue of access, and i believe if we made it so you can only get maxes from certain bases equipped with special max equipment terminals would fix this.

You have succeeded in being a complete troll.



The above is unequivocal proof that Onslaughts cannot get 100% headshots even on paper. The CoF is almost twice as big as the head hit box. Once again, we expose your nature of outright lying about subjects in which you know nothing about. When confronted, you further withdraw denial.

When confronted about inventing KPH numbers when you don't even know how to create a running average on oracleofdeath, you just deny it's existence:
Goretzu
I've never lied anywhere unlike yourself when you said that the site had a totalled running average, which (of course) it doesn't it has a daily average (i.e. each data point) which you supposedly collated into convenient results.

When confronted about inventing CoF sizes, you admit to not even knowing how to generate a CoF overlay in game:
Goretzu
assuming that CoF is remotely accurate

Insults just show you have no counter-arguement.

Again assuming that is 8m (and as we have seen form you it could be 8m +/-20%) and assuming that circle is correct (which given your "calculation" showing the Blitz and Longshot sharing 75% of their killing range, you saying youtube comments are "concrete proof" and you saying NC AI MAXs have been buffed between Jan/Feb 2013 and now - is very much a big assumption).


Even then your picture clearly shows in the 0-8m range you CAN potentially 100% headshot with Onslaughts!


I dunno what else to say really, you've proven yourself wrong and me right.

8m, CoF larger than head hit box. Unequivocal evidence that you are wrong and are continuing to lie against concrete evidence.

No surprise, given your history of outright lying about subjects in which you know nothing about. When confronted, you further withdraw denial.

When confronted about inventing KPH numbers when you don't even know how to create a running average on oracleofdeath, you just deny it's existence:
Goretzu
I've never lied anywhere unlike yourself when you said that the site had a totalled running average, which (of course) it doesn't it has a daily average (i.e. each data point) which you supposedly collated into convenient results.

When confronted about inventing CoF sizes, you admit to not even knowing how to generate a CoF overlay in game:
Goretzu
assuming that CoF is remotely accurate

Again assuming that is 8m (and not 6m or 10m given the at least 20% margin for range you showed in your other post) and again assuming that is the right size (which as we have seen is a big assumption with your "calculation" that the Blitz and Longshot sharing 75% of their killing range, youtube comments are "concrete proof" and that NC AI MAX were buffed between Jan/Feb 2013 and now).

Assuming both of those things are in fact correct your picture clearly shows in the 0m to 8m range you CAN potentially 100% headshot with Onslaughts!

I dunno what else to say really!

I have to agree...even tho i have not read thru this threade... i just jumped into a new vs character after playing exclusivly tr and i am smashing it with the basic default loadout vs max (quasar+comet)
The comet is a great ai weapon and i seem to down inmfantry in a nano second... but with dual cyclers on my tr max i find it very difficult unless i am 10 m away from the target....you can spray a whole clip at someone 40-50m away and only hit them 2-3 times..

Dual cyclers should TEAR apart infantry....ARE THEY BROKEN???

When I pull an AI MAX, either dual Mutilator or dual Scatter Cannon, as there are the only dual AI arms I have, I find that I tend to kill one or two people before I go down, if I even kill anyone at all. I get the exact same results when I play Heavy with the Anchor/Orion/MSW-R.

I am not sure if this is an issue with MAX or Heavy, or if I am just that terrible at PS2.

Planetside 2 is Great Massive Map Game. They have the resources and people to do it.

Looking at current games, The maps will stay Big, just like the growing Video Game Industry.

Businesses won't shy from a eternal and fresh, big map - big concept market.

Small Maps, and Specific Beauty has its place as eternal too.

I'm being general/broad, and potentially basic

Gotta love the Forums for additional discussion

Again it's concrete undeniable proof that you're wrong.

Goretzu
Onslaught can potentially 100% headshot in the 0-8m range, if you have a good enough aim

Onslaught CoF at 8m is way larger than a head hit box. Just, because you don't know how to overlay a CoF in game is no argument against data. How are you making arguments on CoF when you don't even know how to create the data? It's easily verifiable for anyone who takes the time to do the research. Of course, that's against your nature.

Just like earlier, when you didn't know how to create average KPH numbers, yet you still made arguments using them and denied their existence when confronted with them.

Goretzu
I've never lied anywhere unlike yourself when you said that the site had a totalled running average, which (of course) it doesn't it has a daily average (i.e. each data point) which you supposedly collated into convenient results.

I'm assuming you'll next try to worm yourself out by adding caveats and changing the previous criteria of "good enough aim" to "incredulous luck". Twisting the context to mean "the CoF covers the area, therefore it could happen".

Well by that logic:
clearly shows in the 250m to 300m range you CAN potentially 100% headshot with Gauss SAW hipfired!

I dunno what else to say really!

People should maybe wait and see how the new Anti-material rifle affects the MAX gameplay. I don't see how you chase a nerf to MAX units when one is technically incoming already.