WDS Preseason 2 Changes and Feedback

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Malorn, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Warnarl

    To make my first post in a nutshell: Basically the WDS point reward for capture time should be based on when the last time your faction captured the particular territory and not when a faction captured it!.

    + Defender WDS reward points are not shared so the capture should be not be shared as well.
  2. BetaGuru

    I cannot imagine this season going for another few weeks. It's agonizing. The fights are terrible!

    Scrap it and try again later. I mean, we can still have the conversation about how to fix it without having to suffer through it at the same time.
    • Up x 3
  3. libbmaster

    Agree, we got the data, and it is mighty useful. We inch closer to a functioning WDS.

    Now pull the plug! :eek:
  4. DarkNeuron

    I've never seen such a compounding effect of people capturing empty bases. It's the same broken metagame all over again.
    Not to mention the fact that this event, like the "capture all biolabs / etc" events, are basically an overpopulation bonus: The faction with the bigger number of warm bodies to throw around will be the one that wins.

    Completely ridiculous.
  5. Nimwa

    I still don't like how WDS points are rewarded. It just doesn't make sense.

    A system based on the territory your faction holds over all would promote meaningful combat much more than the current system that promotes capturing high value targets while trying to lose territory while it is still low value and not taking it back right away to make it worth more when captured again.
  6. Skyfaun

    I find the way defense wds points are given kind of ridiculous. I can sit in a base and defend it, every ttime a checkpoint gets taken, i go over and recap it and immediately gain WDS points. Meanwhile on attack, I don't get any WDS points until the entire base is taken.
  7. BetaGuru

    Swapping the defense and attack points didn't change much, really.

    The mechanic is broken on a conceptual level. I don't understand why they don't adopt Anet's WvWvW model.

    Bases you take contribute to your empire's points at every 5 minute tick. Bigger bases equal bigger point rewards. At the end of a two week period, the scores are totaled and one team wins.
  8. Irathi


    Failing to realize there was an official thread for feedback to WDS, here are links for two threads about the subject;

    In short Mattherson is utterly dominated by VS and the score advantage they achieve there accounts for 80% of the overall difference between TR and VS WDS score. It is also the main reason VS is able to score equally compared to NC even though they have a much smaller population which actually is just slightly higher than TR.

    1. most importantly the scoring system of WDS

    2. and second an analytic approach to the score, the population and the result (which also lead me to write the first thread).

    In the first thread I argue for how a better overall score system could smoothen out indivudal server unbalance by using a "lowest score system" like this;

    Where if you summarize the number of 1st 2nd and 3rd for each empire NC would lead with 13 points, VS be second with 16 points and TR be third with 18 points. This is actually a very accurate ranking if you consider the overall combined population of all servers where NC has a clear lead and VS is slightly ahead of TR.

    In the second thread I analyse a lot more and consider such things as population, weapon unbalance, skill, warpgate positioning. I also try to find a solution as to how you can improve the situation on a individual-server basis. Because changing the overall score system won't help make it more fun to play on each individual server.
  9. Dhabu

    Logged on today to see how the new values are playing out. Got some of the platoon-drops-on-a-facility-to-defend it action, but honestly? That's what good platoons should be doing anyway, so I wasn't upset by it. Made for a lot of better fights than we were having before under the previous system.

    I still say the best idea is to equalize attack and defense rewards, and make them both less than the "hold" value (I'd also like to see the "hold" points tick every 5-15 mins instead of 30). But the latest change was a definite improvement from my perspective.
  10. Imthehunter

    Have you thought about lowering the personal contribution tiers now that nearly all of the WDS point rewards have been nerfed?

    On the first day I got tier 1 reward in about 50 minutes, which was admittedly a bit too fast.

    Yesterday I played for about 1,5 hours and I got roughly 50 points. The most points I got from any single base during that time was 4. (Granted, it's a one-off experience but I'm sure a couple of other people have noticed it.) It really isn't too reassuring thinking to yourself "Woo, only a 100 more bases for the first tier which will probably be 3 1-hour xp boosts!"

    Either lowering the tiers or buffing the minimum WDS point rewards would fix this problem.

    Hope you'll consider it!
    • Up x 1
  11. chiensale2005

    God !! What the hell just happen in one night! Am NC on connery last night i play like a mad cow and the scoring give up like 4 k ahead of vanu, then i go to sleep. Get online today and now Vanu have 9 k ahead of us!! What the hell just happen ??
  12. Phaze

    Declare victory. Say something like, "you've collected sufficient data." Save face. End the WDS.

    I don't think I've seen a single element be more responsible for damaging gameplay, since TechTest.

    Put WDS in a box. Stick it in the far corner of the attic and forget about it. I promise you, nobody will ask for it back. You'll hardly hear a peep.

    Get back to working on more interesting things like capturable/upgradable bases... resources... maybe some crafting... etc.. Try and conceive of a game where the actual value of territory is based on what the territory holds... not some arbitrary scoring system you've created.
    • Up x 2
  13. Phaze

    You bring up a point that I've been trying to impress upon SOE.

    Even those that are actively participating in the event seem to only be doing it for the individual rewards. I don't see anyone, anywhere, saying how much FUN it is.

    If SOE wants to just give away rewards - there are other ways.
  14. chiensale2005

    my idea is i dont get it why they dont only caculate it in the prime time. like i dont know 4:30 pm to 10 pm each day. So the major population from the west coast can play, fight and duel like everybody else. The **** with connery is at night after 11 pm is like all autralians ( no racism there just a silly picture :p ) log on vanu and rules the night, is so hopeless to see that kind of stuff happening. I not talking about TR on connery they need pop but for what they got they are brave soldiers i respect them and i love fighting with them. Phaze ! i fight for the global domination but all is **** up, i feel like am a beta testing guy. i will humbing say to SOE if you have stuff to fix close all servers for 1 week or 2, take your time to fix your game. I know many will cry but we have many others game to play for fun they will survive. Am not a member but i spend lot of money on it because i like it, but is not working fine at all.
  15. Imthehunter

    Well, part of the fun is the rewards. Most games people tend to play nowadays have some kind of model that gives you a feeling of accomplishment now and then. (E.g. achievements, weapon unlocks, better gear, etc.)

    I must say that I've seen a few decent fights during this WDS, although mostly in Bio Labs.

    Because of WDS they don't tend to last quite as long though. Any base that has a significant WDS point reward is rapidly either capped or defended by a crushing majority when everyone comes in just to get the points. Not once during this WDS have I seen a 48+ vs. 48+ fight go on for even half an hour.

    The problem is, that even when there is a fight that feels very rewarding, it's usually due to getting loads of WDS points rather than because it was actually a good fight.
  16. Blue_Moon

    I think the WDS can be fixed if we go about this the right way using the correct logic. Figure out what the problems are individually, insert methods to deal with each one by one, and then look at the big picture to see how those changes will affect each other. From a personal standpoint, the two problems I have is that 1. massive overpopulations and quick ends to fights are rewarded (AKA "zerging"). 2. The same bases are always fought over because they're in that location near the center and are worth so many points, compounding the problem. Biolab this, techplant that, crown here, there, everywhere, and I'm sick of it. Fights would be so much more interesting if places that didn't see much action were fought over.

    Problem 1: So basically, we have to penalize zergs. Keep this in mind- organized groups of players do not zerg. Zerging happens because of a snowball effect where a fight is started and more and more people join. What we want to do is give incentives to those unorganized players to basically go somewhere else. How? Well, simple; the more you overpopulate the other faction, the less points that capturing that facility is worth. If your faction outnumbers the other 3:1, that base won't be worth it anymore, so many of those players will go somewhere else to a more even fight, from that fight a few players will go elsewhere, so on and so forth. It might also encourage players to start fights. Furthermore, the more your faction is outnumbered, the more points you will receive. The result is more fights in more places that are more evenly matched. My plan might not bring about that, or it might, but I believe that is the goal we all want, not just for WDS but in the game as a whole. One downside I can see here is that those who have been fighting in a certain area for a long time would be compelled to leave all of the progress they made because zerglings overpopped the area, but it's just an idea.

    As a side note, Indar always getting all the action and the other two continents in the dust compounds the zerging problem. We need measures to encourage people to leave indar. The reason people stay on Indar is that everyone is on Indar. It's a vicious circle. Let's break it. More fights on Esamir and Amerish mean more evenly matched fights in different places, as well as less ghost capping and more dynamic fights.

    Problem 2. Basically, we have a premise here that needs to be understood; a big reason that many places see little action is because they aren't in prime zones, that is, the places in the middle of the map or in places that we're told are essentially worth more, such as biolabs. Let's say, though, that we made it so that the longer bases are held, the more valuable they are to attackers but also to defenders. Instead of rushing the biolab, vanu archives (one of my favorite places in the game) might be just as rewarding. Defending your "heartlands" suddenly becomes more important while attacking doesn't result in "rush the biolab!" It might result in more open field fights, but who knows? Again, just another idea.
  17. Pacster

    Well, with the increased defense-points we have more serious fights now than last week....BUT....the new system is even easier to abuse and benefits the overpopped faction even more.
    Yesterday NC had areas with 50 defense points during rush hour...and while the overpopped faction NC(40% world pop) had about 80% population in those areas, some of us still tried capturing the points again and again and gave them MASSIVE loads of WDS points. So essentially we should have left that place alone....but even if most of us did: There are always some randoms(should I go in there to TK them before they ruin the WDS for all of us, or what?)...OR even worse...NC just go "4th faction Vanu"(and I think some did) and keep tagging the points so NC can retag them and score. Done right you can easily gain 200points/minute(do that right and you score a huge lead within 2 hours. Enough that the other 2 factions give up for the rest of the week and hence drop even more cause either they don't log in anymore at all or just ignore WDS)...which is likely why NC is far ahead on our Server now while having lost in the closest race of all servers last week(which was likely the only server where the overpopped faction lost).

    On top of that SOE says it's JUST 1% 4th faction...but it only needs 3-5 dedicated players to change an entire WDS by doing the strat above or just TKing Sunderers(I have seen countless fights lately where the destruction of one sunderer turned a fight over) and Maxes at high value targets/fights. 1% is way, way, way more than enough.

    Last but not least the current WDS is just not giving good enough incentives(I have heard many times "we don't care for WDS"...which especially sucks if stuff like that comes from platoon leaders that are in charge of huge random-platoons. An ugly decal just isn't enough.) and a worldwide event needs a world-wide lead. A global strat only works if everyone is informed, listening and understands what is going on. You would need a real leader. Currently I got the feeling that 3/4 of the players on my server either don't understand english(another problem!) or never heard of WDS....let alone see a reason to follow any kind of strat. It's just frustrating.

    To sum it up: WDS always did and still does promote the wrong behaviour...from zerg-ghostcapping to abuse to 4th faction. It does not promote any kind of teamplay(aside from massive zerg-ghostcapping and abuse) and it definitely does not lead to any kind of faction unity/strat. It definitely does not add any depth to the game and just devides factions into those that care for WDS and those that don't care or don't even know about WDS. I don't think that I was ever THAT pissed about my faction and their stupid behaviour as during the last week+. If one faction is ahead in score(and usually in pop as well) then the others are massively demoralized(those that never had a chance due to pop, feel even more how screwed they really are).

    My final advice on WDS: End the WDS asap. Scrap it as it currently is and back to the drawing board(overpop, lattice-advantages and global lead/strat needs to be solved before you can start a serious and fair competition. Aside from solving balance problems such as giving one faction hard hitting weapons while an other has no bullet drop...unfortunately bullet drop doesn't matter in 98% of the game at all anyway...or giving one faction hovering abilities but screwed them up in such a way that you can not dodge anything with it vs. a skilled enemy while the other faction gets an imunity shield that works always and for all no matter how skilled they are).
    Give everyone rewards for taking part in this failed test.

    Mine too. It's definitely one of the most interesting spots in the game. Can be a horrible experience tho once the attackers have locked you in the spawnroom...especially libs from above are no fun in that case. Could use a 4th cap-point downstairs and a second exit for the spawnroom.
  18. Drasilov

    Problem here seems to be an inherent problem with the game. There are no controls on population so all the rewards go to the faction with the highest population on any given server.

    PS2 at the moment is basically who can field the most maxes and who has the biggest zerg wins.
  19. Hiding in VR

    Given that some forum users claim that 4th factioning to team kill is a part of the "legitimate" metagame, I expect they are using separate accounts.
  20. Hiding in VR

    But is that due to population or just logging in to get your daily certs?