WDS Preseason 2 Changes and Feedback

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Malorn, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Daxxed

    Need to award WDS like this:

    Bounty for each hex, but you need to earn EXP in that hex to get it.
    If attacking, flip the hex for bounty
    If defending, Bounty awarded on a timer, but you don't have to stay at the base to get it. You could get multiple bounties from multiple hexes. Isn't this exploitable? See below.

    So if you get 2500/5000 exp in a hex during the timer, you get 50% of the WDS reward for that hex. Only get one kill (100exp), then u only get 2% of WDS for that hex. So if you ran around killing in multiple hexes, you'd still get a max of 100% of the WDS when the timer is up.

    It's fair, it promotes combat but also promotes taking territory.
    Your move, SOE
  2. Aegie

    Well, a merger- no fault of mine- resulted in my TR alt being on my NC main server. I'm not happy about this but what do you propose as a solution? I would certainly prefer if my main TR, NC, and VS characters were all on different east coast servers.

    I would certainly like to see server transfers somehow- I know this is a difficult issue for a variety of reasons. Still, I have to wonder what would happen if I move and suddenly have terrible game play on all my characters because the server is east coast and I'm on the other side of the world. Honestly, if that happened, in the absence of being able to move those characters, I am pretty sure I would just move on and never play again because the idea of all that time going down the toilette pains me to think about even as a hypothetical.
  3. Kirdra

    I've always got the sense that, for the most part, the "4th faction" is just a case of a faction mass-logging off because they are losing, rather than a lot of people switching to an alternate character. One faction remains consistent due to having a large victory about to happen, people are willing to put in an extra ~30-40 minutes past the time they would usually log off. If this is what is actually happening for the most part.. Perhaps a better "world population" indicator in-game would help.. but I'm not really sure how that would work.

    Something that better reflects people are logging off rather than switching sides, I guess.
    • Up x 2
  4. libbmaster


    For a while, I was wondering why the players saw a 4th faction problem, but the devs said no dice on the stats.

    The winners aren't gaining people: The losers are just logging off!
  5. Malorn

    (I snipped a bit}

    We discussed both of these ideas as possible actions. Neither of them are something we can get a quick turnaround on without impacting or delaying other features like missions or directives. As mentioned above, we want a better solution but we can't give the best one in a couple days, so we're working with what we have to get something out ASAP to alleviate the issue and also still learn more from the preseason.

    We definitely want to tie in effort and risk into the reward equation. We might end up doing something like these, but it won't be for Preseason 2.
    • Up x 1
  6. Malorn

    Thanks for this feedback! You have a good assessment, and we've come to pretty much the same conclusions. We plan on doing most of the actions you describe, but we can't get 'em all in at once. Doing what we can when we can.
    • Up x 2
  7. Malorn

    Yes, we're looking into that too. It's not as easy to examine, but we recognize that is also a source. I want to re-emphasize that we are not done investigating the 4th faction phenomenon.
  8. Malorn

    I don't disagree with your assessment, but this is what we have to work with in the short-term. We're going to see if we can curb most of the negative behavior with some point adjustments. Ideally we want to have it scale with the difficulty of the capture/defense and reward players for failed attempts at both, but that's not something we can realistically do short-term without derailing other features.
    • Up x 2
  9. DQCraze

    Why not say WDS FEB 1-28. Assign secret values to bases, award 1.5x XP when fighting on an alert objective, give player rewards based Faction performance.
  10. Bullborn

    Good to hear :) I'm not expecting miracles in the short term. The longer term fixes require code changes and that usually takes time (and the coding resources which Im sure is in high demand). For now I assume the short term fixes will only be numbers tweaking, and I think in that regard, the correct way is to increase defense rewards (although I think I would try a more balanced approach first, with numbers being closer to equal for capture/defense).

    The second number tweaking that is doable is to reduce the requirement for tier 3 rewards to a point where it is easy to achieve. That way it becomes more of a "bonus for playing during WDS". It should still encourage more people to play (its free stuff after all) but once players achieve their personal reward, I believe they will return to what they find fun rather than chasing points.

    Most people don't know how the overall faction-WDS score is determined anyways as the "Hold" part is not sufficiently explained in the game. Not sure where in the gui there would even be room for an explanation (short of a hover-over, but that requires gui code, and thus isn't a short term fix). However, even if it was explained fully, people are selfish, and unlikely to change their normal gameplay to suit. The big alliances might, but at that point you have a form of success. If average joe doesn't care too much, but his leader does, then a form of metagame is in the works, and over time, average joe might care more.

    Anyhoo - chin up, don't let the negativity get to you, and thank you for the reply. :)
  11. Malorn

    Based on your feedback and observing a bit of a large difference between Amp & Tech plants, we're reducing the max value for Tech plants and Amp station defenses from 100 to 50. This is still the most beneficial location to defend, but it's not quite so big of a difference. I've updated the original post to reflect this.
    • Up x 4
  12. Nayrx

    in PS1 the empire with the lowest pop got an exp bonus I think something like that would be a good idea for WDS points. This way the faction that is getting steam rolled is getting enough points to stay logged in.
  13. Dieter Perras

    perhaps link the WDS to the population in a given hex the lower the ratio of allies is to enemies the more points that are awarded for flipping points in it (Zero for a ghost cap and nearly double if outnumbered by a 2:1 ratio). This way players would naturally gravitate towards areas where they are outnumber because they would get the most rewards for doing so (hopefully). And would also reward players in the faction that is underpoped. While also rewarding squads who take on heroic feats like facing off with a tank zerg and still holding the base.
  14. Crayv

    First off I am going to say I like the territories increases in value over time. It has lead to some interesting fights from pushes deep into enemy territory to get them.

    My main issue with defense is how it works. If I fight at a territory my faction controls and prevent them even touching the point(s) I barely get anything out of it. However if I show up right as the point gets flipped back into control I get rewarded for it.

    Same deal with offense. If I show up right at the last second as a base gets captured I get the same reward as the guy who was the very first to show up even if the battle took a full hour.

    The issue with defense I think can be more easily solved than offense by simply making kills count toward defense. Need to make it for everyone at the base so those who are repairing/healing also get rewarded. It should also be scaling based on the # of attackers and defenders. For example if there are both 40 attackers and 40 defenders the defenders would need 80 kills total for everyone to get their defense bonus. If there are 40 attackers and 20 defenders the defense would only need 40. For 20 attackers and 40 defenders; 160 kills. Yes it would reward the one guy in a base hopelessly outnumbered farming kills before it flipped... but everyone would know this and people would show up to to defend against massive zergs rather than run from them.

    Another idea is rather than kills AMS/Gals destroyed count toward defense (since those are critical to taking anything in this game).

    For offense it is a bit more tricky. You could have it based around when the point flips and the capture progress starts but often times that marks more of the end of a fight than the beginning. I would say a kill based system like what I mentioned before but that would probably end up promoting kill farming by never flipping the point that and it would make a weird system where people would get upset for "ruining their points" by joining in on an offensive push. So the best I can think of is have it more based on when the point is flipped, it isn't perfect but better than what it is.

    Yes I know a kills based anything would promote kill farming but on defense killing attackers until they give up or/and you manage to get enough numbers to go on the offensive is a normal part of defending. Also if they making it so when the numbers are about even then it is no longer as effective as pushing out and taking the nearby enemy base. The defense thing I'm suggesting should make it so you are rewarded for hunting down enemy zergs and stopping them but you are not really punished for when you get enough numbers to go on the offensive.
  15. Ronin Oni

    And players in Australia or Asia who only have 1 server with decent ping available to them?

    And what about players who already have 2 on a server, in large part caused from server merges US side.

    1% playerbase faction swapping is truly rather minimal according to their stats, and I don't really see much of a problem with it myself.

    What I DO notice is overall pop % swings with big updates that create a new "FotM" faction (eg; Right now it's NC because infantry weapon balance, before it was VS with ZOE, and before that TR with... everything :p )
  16. Ronin Oni

    Sooo... in order to deny an enemy faction any points for capping a base all you have to do is...

    avoid it and make it a ghost cap?

    Sorry, FAR to easily exploitable.
    • Up x 1
  17. Ronin Oni


    Defense needs a slow, over time, reward based upon amount of action in a territory compared to just "when you flip the point back". The more enemies attacking a base, the more frequent and higher point value rewards. In this way you can earn points even if you're losing territory so long as you keep fighting.

    So an idle, unattacked territory gives you say 6 points every 15 minutes. 1-12 enemies in that territory changes it to 12min, 12-24 9min, 24-48 makes it 6min, and 48+ every 3 minutes. Personal rewards would be granted based upon personal experience gain at some conversion rate while in a defending territory.

    What I see (potentially, and quite likely) happening now is a couple less reputable players logging in a second account and flipping high point value target cap points over, then their friends flip it back. Rinse and repeat for quick ridiculous point gain.
  18. Eagle50

    Have you put thought into rewarding fair capture more than just captures?

    A fight, even a long one, that was at 50/50% force is interesting.

    A fight 90% vs 10% is boring for the outnumbering force and frustrating for the outnumbered force.

    WDS grants should be maximal for 50/50 fights.

    Maybe there might be a bit of a bonus for capturing a place while being outnumbered, but not that much, you definitely wan people to even out forces.

    If you don't do this, the game will inevitably become a zerg fest where platoons will avoid each other because it is far more easy to zerg every bases.
  19. EmmettLBrown

    This is why we should have hard numbers along with the population percentages. It would have settled a lot of guesswork a long time ago.
    • Up x 1
  20. BetaGuru

    I'm honestly of the opinion that scrapping Preseason 2 wholesale is the way to go. There is literally no part of this event's implementation that has worked to the game's benefit. The enticement of selfish rewards has shifted player behavior away from large, fun fights, and for the players who do get the rewards, they find them anywhere between underwhelming to deeply disappointing.

    Nobody seems to be happy. Those who haven't logged off in disgust are slogging through it. You might have noticed an uptick in people logging in, but I sincerely doubt we're seeing some kind of PS2 Renaissance. More like everyone is just going through the motions and counting the days until this preseason is over with.

    Do the community a favor and scrap it. Make room for some of the other initiatives, like missions. Come back to WDS when the ideas are a little better. And by a little I mean revamped wholesale, because nothing in this latest iteration has worked.