Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Verviedi, May 10, 2014.
I assure you
waterson NC aren't that organized either
You're ridiculous. You sidestep what I said about the outfits/player skill, side step what I said about BWC and how we operate (Did you even watch the video?, and don't even question your own flawed definition of what a zergfit is. If you don't understand the fact that it takes a squad or 2 of tanks supported by Skyguards and Sunderers to even have a chance at having a meaningful impact on giant platoons verse platoons battle than you really don't understand how armor interacts with this heavily infantry focused game. We find massive battles to enter, not purposely target little battles to enter, but again since you are basing everything you know off assumption and do not know how we operate this isn't really surprising. BWC goes up against numbers which are equal or greater than ourselves regularly, because believe it or not there are other large outfits like ours on Mattherson on the enemy team, and in particular on Mattherson VS.
Do you honestly not know the difference between a convoy of tanks supported by Skyguards, Ammo/Repair Sunderers traveling and attacking in formations, and a giant blob of stock Prowler's crashing into eachother and tking eachother constantly? If you don't think it takes any tactics or coordination at all at any level to run a proper armor armor column, keep it up and alive, and at the same time actually be useful in Platoons vs Platoons battles without losing you're mechanized assets you honestly don't know what you're talking about. I recently haven't seen a single other outfit other than maybe TENC when WaaWaa is leading them that uses armor columns and tactics efficiently, and when it comes to doing it one the scale that BWC does there is literally no comparison on any American servers, however there might be on Miller.
I already showed you 2 battles from literally from the past 2 days where my SPM was massively higher than what it is on my one main account that I've had since day 1 at launch (Think about if 60 kills in under 15 minutes represents the current less than 200 XP/Min I currently have. You also ignore that your oldest main account has an extremely low SPM compared to your newer ones after you learned how to play and get certs more effectively. Are you going to sidestep this too?
I feel quite the same. Waterson TR seem to be oblivious when it comes to sound tactical decisions. I was in a battle at Scarred Mesa Skydock not too long ago - one of the most defensible places on Indar, mind you, - and the NC has parked a Sunderer down below just underneath a rocky outcrop. The battle hadn't yet gotten into full swing and we were easily camping the landing pads. And yet, even though the Sunderer could have easily been killed, I was the only one even attempting to do so. I just needed one other person with an LA and C4 to come with me and destroy it, but everyone was too interested in soaking up kills themselves. I had to yell at people in proximity to finally get someone to come along with me and get rid of the thing.
A bit later, after our assault on the next base failed, we were pushed back into the same situation. This time they had reinforcements and still no one else seemed to want to do the smart, intelligent thing and concentrate on removing their spawn point. I finally had to drag a flash from the next base over and suicide-mine their Sunderer by myself, a futile gesture since they had, in the meanwhile, pulled out another one. It soon became too much, the NC taking the place shortly after.
I swear, TR make some of the worst tactical decisions in this game. I was in a platoon on Esamir that decided abandoning Eisa was a perfectly legit strategy in favor of fighting at a far-flung Biolab down south. 'Lo and behold, the assault was beaten back by a horde of Vanguards that we had practically gift wrapped and hand-delivered to them.
Just the other day, we were camped by the NC, again, at Granite Valley Garrison. Vanguards and Lightnings as far as the eye could see. I was utterly flabbergasted when the TR actually started pulling armor from the adjoining base, gathered up into a huge mass, and OUTFLANKED them. It was one of the most amazing tactical maneuvers I've ever seen the TR pull off. Instead of just rushing headlong at the enemy and turning things into a stagnant stand-off on the road, as usually happens, they circled around to hit them from behind. The NC, concentrating on camping the tower, were completely annihilated.
I doubt TR will ever do something so tactically sound ever again.
Um.. I use my mic and say "sunderer", "lightning", Light assault northeast close, and so on.. not really rocket science...
There is no difference between your convoy and a random tank zerg.
Its effect on the battle are the same, you take a good battle and you turn it into a boring spawn shelling spawn camp..
I don't care about trying to keep armor alive.
Armor is just a way to get from base to base without walking.
Having armor once you are at a base is only good for one thing, turning a good fight into a spawn camp.
Your playstyle is the same playstyle as 903, and former ODAM on waterson, PROWLER ZERG.
You are helpless easy kills without using a force multiplier as a playstyle.
Farming kills is making certs. Killing that sunderer is NOT in your factions best interest.
More certs for your faction means more upgrades, means more tools, means more options.
To kill that sunderer would be idiotic, which is why no one was helping you.. Learn to play!
If a faction wants to throw themselves at you like lemmings to their death, you enjoy the easy certs, not end it...
they should merge waterson and mattherson. It'd be mayhem and hopefully turn into Connery 2.0.
You're about as wrong as it's possible to be. Their dedicated pushes with tanks frequently smash our attacks with minimal effort, and the worst part about them is that they manage to keep themselves up and armoured nearly constantly.
Born and bred from Waterson stock I take it? And you wonder why people are condescending to your opinion.
Yeah, the 903'rd and BWC, the best two TR outfits overall on the server and my nemesis'... nemesises... nemisizes... sworn enemies, are simple zergfits. All those battles they single-handedly win for the TR must be in my imagination.
For real man?
When commanding an armor column you actually have to make calls on when it would be wise to go through contested enemy territory to get somewhere faster, which direction to attack from and set up to maximize initial impact, how to adjust to various threats, and knowing when to tactically retreat or set ambushes or whatever else happens on the fly. Making the wrong choice can cost you a few tanks up to your entire convoy.
Well if you can't differentiate a blob of tanks from a coordinate group of MBT's, Skyguards, and Sunderers then it's apparent you don't know what you're talking about or have even been part of a true armored convoy. If you think tanks ruin battles then I don't think combined arms games are for you, and it sounds to me like you'd rather play an infantry only game or fight only in bio labs. By the way it's easy enough to counter tank zergs with AV Tank squads, coordinated air attacks, infantry AV nests, or Galaxy LA C4 drops if you know what you're doing. If they truly are tank zergs and thus un coordinated it should be relatively simple for you to kill off any size armored zerg if you're working with a few people. That is of course unless you're a lone wolf who wants to be able to deal with a squad of tanks by themself and would rather complain about the tanks then be a part of a coordinated Anti-Tank unit to counter said tanks in a massive MMO FPS.
The fact you can't see the important impact of blowing up battle critical Sunderers and think of tanks only as Taxi cabs shows that you haven't taken the time to actual see the fun or utility that a good player using a tank can have and impact on a battle. We play with the 903rd and have even operated in the same team speak with them, and while they are coordinated like us, they do not have the constant and consistent combined arms approach that BWC does. Once again though your clear and obvious lack of knowledge of the outfits on Mattherson shows itself.
Killing Sunderers wins the battle at individual bases and allows you to get territory and push forward to new locations which gets you more resources which lets you have more fun and freedom to get grenades, vehicles, and air craft to let you play the way you want while you are playing and getting certs at the same time.
It would seem that lacking knowledge on what you are talking about is a recurring issue, much like how you tried to claim the Visigodo player was some random good player unlike those on DA; when he was in fact part of Mattherson outfit very much like DA, that there are in fact people as good if not better than him on DA, and that the player you referred to was a part of a Mattherson VS outfit.
See you OP you will just drag down a Mattherson outfit and complain over there. You were not even in an outfit and come to the forums and cry.
Why are you attacking? Attacking is pointless... Defend. Shoot dudes. Redeploy..
There is no reason at all to be concerned with taking or losing land.
Yes for real..
I have 100+ DAYS of playtime spread across 6 characters, there is nothing more to this game than making certs.
To end a cert farm of lemmings throwing themselves to their death for a 400XP sunderer kill is moronic.
I have no interest in killing sunderers to end battles.. I want the battles, I play this to shoot people...
I have no interest in attacking, I am a defender only. If I don't have a hard spawn, there is no point in being there..
I have no interest in resources or land, as I don't use them, I use redeploy.
Not sure what your goal is in playing.. there is only 1 goal in this game and it is making certs.
You can't win the war, so taking land is a pointless waste of time.
Worrying about loosing a base is also a waste of time, as you can just redeploy to another base.
Your entire philosophy of playing this is wrong..
You seem to want to play this as some kind of war game you can win by taking land..
I see an armor column coming, I will see if I can blow a few of the ones that get to close, then I will redeploy elsewhere.
Your tank zerg can sit around for 4mins for 1 cert while I go make 6certs in that same time shooting people at some other base.
There is a fundamental difference in gameplay between me and you. You think land matters, when I know it is meaningless.
Reading this is just... wow.
Are you high right now?
ITT: Stat padders and role players argue over which one's playstyle is the most fundamentally silly while waterson continues to stagnate.
Nope. I am just playing the game as they built it..
Maybe when continent locking is a thing, maybe then land would matter a bit, but for now it is meaningless..
Alerts are the worst idea yet...
5000XP for a dominating victory if you spend an hour of time trying to cap things on a continent? I can make that in 1 life.
A 1 hour continent alert would have to pay out 25,000XP for me to even bother..
My 2 cents:
1. Waterson VS USED to be good. I no longer consider them to be so. They have a couple of outfits that are still as good as they always were, but most of them are incompetent. The only time the VS wins anything is when the TR and NC don't give enough of a **** about them to stop them from winning because they have a more fun time fighting each other. Waterson really is a TR vs NC server nowdays.
2. The stupidity of both the Waterson NC and the Waterson TR at times is simply astounding (it's not Connery-level ******ation, but it's no Mattherson). As such, I cannot give the advantage to either. Who wins usually depends on the pops that day, and if not, it relies on who is actually trying more.
3. Having now played on Mattherson I can indeed atest to the fact that it is the Hardmode US server, like Miller is the Hardmode EU server. LibertyRevolution's troubles on Waterson are either blind luck, caused by a change in playstyle, or perhaps my half-guess of a hypothesis is correct and Waterson has a lot of really good individual players, they just aren't organized, so he's finding it harder to kill them in 1-on-1 engagements.
4. Eskimo is not some kind of stat padder unless your definition of "padding" is anything that inflates your stats beyond what they are when you play infantry. I mean, if that's the case then yeah his stats are quite padded, but he's not an infantryman, he's a tanker, and should be judged as such.
5. There is not going to be a Wat/Math merger so don't even bother saying it.
6. I still think the best thing to do if you have a Waterson char is just stick with it. Times DO change, current paradigms are not set in stone, the dynamics of the server have changed before and they will change again. The one constant is that it's still a laid back, live-and-let-live, fun little place to go romping around shooting at stuff, especially now that most of the tryhard players have mysteriously disappeared after January. Maybe it's just me but even when my team's not doing so well Waterson is just a fun server to play on. So just stick around - I thought going to Connery would be better too, but Connery is just....well, it's my least favourite US server let's put it that way. Zergs that do ring-around-the-rosie with each other, constant cheese tactics, medics trains, general player stupidity - fights simply don't seem as fair or fun because everyone seems to be there not for a good firefight but for as many certs as they can get.
Ah. It seems that a game where you sit in a small, boxed room and shoot a bunnyrabbit over and over for l33t XP is more your style. Planetside does not appear to be for you if all you enjoy is mindlessly farming for certs.
Though I will agree that alerts need to be worth more to be worth worrying about. Same goes for base caps. Waiting around for 5 minutes to get 1 cert at small bases just isn't enough.
No, I am that guy that just wants to shoot dudes trying to take my base...
I know they are going to take it, I know I can't stop their zerg.. So I learned to just enjoy the kill.
I was forged in the fires of waterson VS..
Where every base was a lost cause and all you can do is kill as many of them as you can before you have to redeploy...
I am that guy that keeps spawning at that base where he is outnumbered 97%/3%..
Kill a camper and die, kill a camper and die.. repeat for 3 mins, then redeploy to the next base down the line to do it again.
Doing this ↓ is NOT fun:
I know.. I tried it.. On all 3 factions.. On all 3 US servers..
We have good pilots. You just haven't been playing enough.
Liberty kinda has a point - bases come and go but certs are forever.
There are times I just want to farm up some certs and dont care about the base being taken, and there are times when the immediate goal is to get rid of their spawn point.
There are times I drive a max repair sundy around for fun; though I could easily earn more certs in an HE or Viper Lightning or flying around as an LA shooting scrubs in the head from above. But what I find fun at that moment is cruising around in the sexiest of sunderers, repairing tanks.
And sometimes, Ill sit for 10 minutes with C4 stuck to the ground somewhere, waiting in a tree for someone to drive over it.
Today, I sat on top of Andavari trying to stick C4 to low flying aircraft for about an hour. Missed every time but I was having fun trying.
Point is, as long as we are having fun, no one playstyle is better than someone elses.
The thing is, from the point of of view of Mattherson TR leadership we're not here to prioritize our own fun. We're here to ensure that the faction overall is healthy and that players looking for outfits have something that will give them a good time, as well as making sure that public players have good platoons to provide them with a good experience so they have fun and keep playing.
That's the POV Eskimo is arguing. BWC and 903 are primarily focused on winning alerts and fights because we want our outfits and faction to be heatlhy, which requires overall morale to be high. Coming from a very long period where morale was so far down the toilet we needed a sump pump to get it out, this is a very big focus for us. This means having good fights where you at least win part of the time and give a tremendous fight other times (and a hell of a lot of coaching and morale-building from the PL and SL's). Many public players don't see "TR lost an alert, but we lost by only a few percent and only because of certain outfits not being teamplayers." They see "We lost an alert. Again."
All those other little things are fun, sure. However, there are also dozens of players who spend their time in-game organizing outfits and thinking about ways to keep faction morale up. For example, our outfit has weekly meetings where we talk about issues in the community, as well as making sure that we have enough things scheduled every week (with some variety) to make sure our members are engaged. TR has monthly meetings to address the state of the faction. During the server-smash planning meeting, heads of outfits from every faction actually started talking about the health of the server as a whole, and what each faction (mostly the NC and TR) could be doing to improve things, as well as pointing out strengths and weaknesses of the factions. Completely friendly and professional, and very productive, and entirely outside the scope of the average player's experience--but these all heavily influence the experiences of the other 99% of the player population.
Bringing this back on topic, Waterson VS seems to lack this. I don't think they have any outfits of particular note--they only have a handful with 48+ players active over the last week. Their command chat is dead, and there doesn't seem to be a concerted effort by any of the (scattered) outfits to improve the server, nor does there seem to be any outreach from NC or VS outfits. Overall the server as a whole just seems largely unhealthy.
I've posted on the forums why I don't do outfits.
Separate names with a comma.