Walker Needs A Buff

Skyguard is overpowered vs ESF and very good against libs. Everything is terrible against galaxies.

Skyguard sucks because its not good at anything but killing air and they have the ability to simply leave the area which is what i find them doign when i get a skyguard.

The problem is that currenlty G2A is completely out of control. I just rolled a new toon on Emerald cause connery is kinda dead and it was nothing but constant locks and flak.

I even flew far behind enemy lines as i normally do, steadfastly avoiding any battles so that i dont get killed by flak and locks, and 3 hexes behind the front lines there were people in AA turrets.

Attempting to engage an enemy ESF at any fight was tantamount to suicide by G2A. Locks and bursters and skyguards everywhere. Walker sundies constantly pecking away at you from render range. I got shot down once by a tank while trying to fly low enough to avoid the flak.

I can understand G2A being powerful up close where ESF are in a position to attack them but the constant assault on A2A pilots by flak and locks designed ostensibly as a way for infantry to DEFEND themselves is bordering on absurd.

When i got to Emerald, Hossin was under alert and i flew there for a bit and after constantly getting flakked and locked i decided to go to Esamir. It was even worse there.

I just logged out. Not fun.

That's like complaining that a solo Infiltrator cannot kill a MAX with an SMG unless he's really derping (and using fractures). And by "beat", you mean "forcing the ESF to fly out of LoS". Because if a single Skyguard killed you in an ESF, you aren't among the best pilots by far.

Here, have some fried sea cocumber with broccoli.

Except that we all know maxes shouldn't be in the game and even the original devs like noob higby admitted they should not be in the game.

Except that an infil costs zero resources to pull and a max costs 450.

Except that an ESF costs 350 and a skyguards costs 350.

Except that a skyguard is anti air, but even if i get a same resource cost ESF with anti ground weapons i still can not beat a good skyguard driver. And by good i mean one who doesnt sit still on top of a hill tunneled in to some lib 2 hexes away.

Except that your analogy is nothing like mine.

Other than that i agree with you completely.

Oh and i forgot to mention except that a skyguard is the easiest AV platform in the game to drive and to shoot and the ESF is the hardest.

Except the game should reward skill over EZ weapons.

Except that two weapons platforms that are designed to kill each other and cost the same amount of certs should be pretty evenly matched.

By beat, i mean that if i try to stay and fight against the skyguard, or if i manage to sneak up on him i should have a chance to win based on skill and not the fact that skyguard requires no skill beyond basic leading.

But yeah other than all that, i completely 100% agree with what you said.

Nice to see that nothing much has changed since my ancient, pos computer stopped being capable of loading PS2.

Pilots still generally seem to think they're God's gift to humanity and that they subsequently should not be subject to any kind of rock/paper/scissors arrangement if they choose to engage in the infinitely skill intensive A2A role (no really, dogfights aren't easy). The only thing that should beat them/be a serious threat is someone else doing the exact same thing (A2A) with a greater skill level. At most, there could potentially be a rock/paper/scissors setup within A2A options - but piloting skill must always trump everything else. For all other areas of the game can be easily played to maximum capability by any mouthbreather and only being a pilot is a demonstration of true ability.



Yeah no. Head out of the sand guys. You'd think all those flight hours would make you slightly better at getting a bird's eye view of things. Maybe the current flight ceiling just isn't high enough or something. Blah blah combined arms blah blah.

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Now that I got the requisite pilot roast out of the way, they do have some valid points. Lethality combined with stackability of G2A are the old standbys and I doubt much has changed. Range is just a fun, extra factor to toss in for added giggles.

I won't try to comment too much on the air version of the Walker other than to say "People actually use Galaxies regularly now? That's a pretty big improvement."

Ground version doesn't seem to have gone through any major changes since I last used it. As many have said, the ground based Walker is actually a pretty solid weapon.


The real question is what to do about the Ranger - and potentially other flak sources. I think an interesting concept would be for hits from the Ranger to reduce the A2G weapon damage output of the aircraft that it hits (reason? because nanites, duh). Some stacking debuff so it isn't an all or nothing thing + requires some sustained fire. Would fall off after maybe 10 seconds or so. Probably make it a rolling debuff so that later hits don't refresh the debuff of early hits to full duration, but I'm not sure how much of a nightmare/stress that is on the code side.

That'd allow it to provide protection against air for ground forces while giving a reason for the damage to be small. Would also be of minimal impact (aka, piddly damage) to A2A focused aircraft since it wouldn't interfere with A2A damage or standard nose guns. Also, a damage debuff (obviously capped at some amount - I'd start with somewhere around 50% or so) has far less issues with AA stacking than pure damage output.


And if that seems to function, then other flak sources could potentially see some related modifications with any given one striking a different balance between lethality/protection and all that fun stuff. Damage output vs how quickly aircraft can leave the scene is always something to keep in mind, but the ability to stack G2A options is a strong counterpoint to consider as well. Personally, I'd probably lean towards a protection/debuff style for Ranger and MAX flak and favor higher damage for Phalanx AA and Skyguards.

I still hold the opinion that Skyguards should be the king of specialized G2A - a debuff would help the deterrence role against non-scrub Liberator crews, though not sure about the current state of skilled Lib vs Skyguard. Previously, it was generally an easy kill for a good Lib crew if they found an approach angle that didn't cause them to be lit up starting from 500m out. And that was without a tail gunner doing anything.

In any case, something that allows ground to protect itself from A2G attacks while not instantly gibbing any enemy aircraft that enter the hex would be the goal.


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For Planetside to deliver on its potential (and what the PS1 vets hope for), skill can't actually be the ultimate trump card. There has to be something that trumps high individual skill. Something like logistics.

You have?

OK, look. For my OP, I was talking about the harasser. You will rarely, very rarely, see a harasser pull a walker and start to use it. There's just no use when things like the vulcan and aphelion exist. 9 times out of 10 a pilot shooting you will be right within range to attempt taking them out with the stanard AV or AI weapons. If they're a bad pilot they will be RIGHT behind your harasser and hitting them is a cake walk with anything you've got, AA or not. The good pilots can hit you from a bit farther back, or swoop and shoot to make sure they are never stationary enough to take high amounts of damage. Although of course, every fight is different and a good pilot will guage the situation correctly.

The walker is listed as a Medium range weapon. If an ESF is hitting you at range with the extremely accurate needler, mustang, or saron, what are you going to do? Not much... if the pilot is good you better check your nanites and see if you can get another harasser.

The ranger is listed as a long range weapon, but the damage tapers off at around half the distance that the medium range walker does. The ranger and the walker are both some of the least used weapons to dawn the top of a harasser. On a Sundie they may do better because the sunderer has more life.... or a galaxy can fly after after air targets and the walker might do better in that situation since it's attached to the highest health vehicle in the game... but on top of a harasser it is a pea shooter (though not as much of a pea shooter as the ranger).

When I pull a duel burster max... I can pretty much hit an ESF anywhere in render distance and generally get in quite a few kills. How is that possible when the stats read as worse than the ranger? Pilots can't decoy flare a buster max either, so it is a constant stream of accurate damage. I'd take a burster max over a walker or ranger on top of a vehicle any day. The walker and ranger should at least be given the chance to catch up in capability to the bursters, and saying this:

The walker should at least be moved in to the catagory of long range. Reduce the cone of fire some so the 1,000m/sec can be better taken advantage of. This would make it sensationally better at being what it is intended to be... an AA weapon. Right now it is only an AA weapon in an extremely limited range of situations.

If I had control of the game, I would stop handing out AA like candy to anybody willing to climb a tower. I would remove all those stupid AA turrets from the tops of towers, esspecially in areas such as tech plants and amp stations. That way players would be required to pull AA to deal with pilots, and make AA feel like a more intimate and important job that not anybody can hop in a turret and do. I'd also give a massive buff to all AA on vehicles and the max. Right now, those massive no fly zones near tech plants and amp stations are a deterrent to ESFs without even having to fire. Those turrets also are a huge reason why ESFs are so hard to deal with when you're in a base that doesn't have them. The AA is toned down because those turrets exist, and if you're in a small base you're going to get wrecked by good pilots because none of the current AA can take them out fast enough. If I spend nanites on something with AA, then I want to be able to wreck some air units fast and hard. Is it too much to ask that AA do more than just make a pilot turn around and fly off? It is the most unsatisfying feeling in the game to sit around with an AA weapon and do nothing more then get a handful of "Air detterence" ribbons and 25exp every couple of hits. Oh, and I'd definitely get rid of lock ons. The game should be based on skill, and lock ons are the least skillful weapon set to use in the game. There's no reason why they should exist. If they buffed the current AA guns, and got rid of turrets, there'd be no need for lock ons and the air fights would me immensly more dynamic.

So no, I didn't just wake up and decide that day that the walker needs a buff. There were a lot more factors that I should have included in my OP.

Its not solely the libs job which is why ESF have rocket pods and hornets.

I learned to fly because i was completely frustrated with constantly getting farmed by tanks while playing infantry.

So you should just be able to spend resources and dominate air?

If you spent the same amount of resources on an ESF how much would you dominate air?

I have no problem with AA dominating A2G pilots who are hovering and attacking the ground.

Why is it unreasonable to want G2A to have the same effect on A2A pilots as they have on the ground?

If you want to change it so that there are fun and interactive fights between ground based AA and A2A pilots then im all for that.

Currently flak and g2a locks are just like AV turrets were pre-nerf. I NEVER see the guy on the ground with the lock before he locks me. Even after he locks me it can be very difficult to locate him if hes not just standing out in the open. Often im engaged with another aircraft and some invisible guy on the ground locks me and does 42% damage.

Flak is the same way. You fly along well above the flight deck to avoid locks and you are getting pounded by flak coming from lightnings that arent even rendering.

As an A2A pilot the ONLY option you have when getting locked or flakked is to run or die.

So you want to take away the run part so that there is only die?

You ever try to attack a skyguard with a rotary or even a default nosegun on an ESF?

We already had a time of the game when there was nothing to do but die if flak got on you. Those were the super op burster days. Burster got nerfed because of it. Burster maxxes have two burster weapons. So unless you are only using one, you cant really compare the damage to a single ranger.

All of the people who think G2A needs a buff need to go fly around for a while. go participate in a 96vs96 battle with your ESF and tell me that all that G2A needs buffed.

The Walker is fine.


The Ranger needs buffs & so does the skyguard.

I'd be happy if they removed the dead zone on AA guns, it's understandable that they're limited in their ability to aim downwards but what kind of AA can't shoot straight up? (I'm certain that almost anyone that uses AA has at some point had a situation where they couldn't damage a gal / lib / esf because of this)

I know that it won't fix everything that's wrong with AA but it would be a start, for me at least.

Other than that though I really like the Walker as it is, I feel that it's a great weapon that rewards you for aiming properly and hardly anyone seems to expect me using it which usually (there are some really good pilots out there that you can end up having epic battles to the death with) means easy certs for me.

Exactly thats what AA duty is. Making easy certs. Boring but easy and op.

If you've ever used AA* you'd know that this is false, you can get easy targets while on AA duty but you can get the same easy targets when doing anything else in the game.

*This is not including lock-on launchers.

You can check my stats i have all of my toons listed. I have spent plenty of time in AA.

The problem with AA is that it is so strong that no one wants to play with it.

All you have to do is stick with the friendly armor column and hit anything that comes within 1km.

You kill the pilots who are bad enough to stick around and those engaged in dogfights and then they stop coming to that area because they know if they do they will die.

You then sit there quite bored trying unsucsessfully to shoot infantry or other vehicles that come to close to the armor column you are in. Skyguard is pretty terrible at anything but AA.

Some people will try to point to stats claiming skyguard is responsible for too low a number of ESF kills. Stats lie of course, because they dont take into account all of the ESF that were never in danger of dying to skyguard or who flew too high. For example i usually put a marker at large battles and then studiously avoid those areas. If i know there is an active turret or skyguard in an area i avoid that area like the plague. Most other pilots do the same.

Now if we could see the numbers for ESF, especially A2A ESF, that tried to attack the skyguard instead of running away, then im betting those would look a little different.

I'm still offering to duel anyone who thinks that ESF can kill a skyguard. Ill get in my skyguard, you get in your ESF and you come at me. Lets see how you do. Oh and you only get a default nosegun.

What? No one wants to duel my skyguard with an ESF?

Odd.

I can easily beat your Skyguard. You just need to make sure to give yourself no room to maneuver, only look straight ahead, stay still once I've "snuck up on you", and whatever you do, don't drive straight towards me, forcing me to either dive into the ground trying to keep you in my arc of fire, or break off the attack early.
Make sure to just follow this simple rules of using a Skyguard, which everyone on these forums seems to know, and I'll beat you with an ESF, or even a Liberator, every time.

Lol. True story.