Vulcan Op or Up?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by The Red One, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. d3adline

    Have you tried to extend the range onto 150m or more, a fairly common range for vehicle engagements and look at the way the Vulcan performs there compared to its counterparts? No? All I hear is "Waaaaaaaaah Waaaaaaaaaah I can't adopt my playstyle to counter a new threat on the battliefield Waaaaaah let's go whine on the forums so hopefully the devs will do something against my own inability Waaaaaaah"
  2. Xasapis

    Worst case scenario, Vulcan becomes anti everything again and gets nerfed to oblivion. TR should thread very carefully on what they ask with this one.

    We even got a confirmation that they are contemplating omniburn for the Magrider's magburn, which is really only a prelude for catastrophic nerf hammer for the ability.
  3. FocusLight

    Thanks for explaining your point in a clear and concise manner, it's appreciated.

    We are however fundamentally disagreeing, and I will leave it at that. Take care o/
  4. Flag

  5. Mxiter


    Vulcan damages: 167@10m 150@20m
    Vulcan vehicles resistances:
    MAX Flash Harasser Sunderer Lightning MBT Phalanx Turret ESF Liberator Galaxy Valkyrie
    60% 30% 52.5% 63% 55% 41%/
    43% 80% 33% 62.5% 77.5% 50%

    Vulcan damages against MBT(non-vanguard): 98.53

    Enforcer damages:500
    Saron damages:284

    Enforcer/saron vehicles resistances:
    MAX Flash Harasser Sunderer Lightning MBT Phalanx Turret ESF Liberator Galaxy Valkyrie
    25% -50% -70% -50% -50% -50% 10% -27.5% 32.5% 55%

    Enforcer damages against MBT(non-vanguard): 750
    Saron damages against MBT(non-vanguard): 426

    Sure: they deals marginally same damages.

    Without including damage drop off or accuracy stuffs :rolleyes:
  6. Ballto21

    When you can fire 30 vulcan rounds in the time it takes to fire 6 saron, reload, and start firing again, thats more damage. I meant have barely less if not more dps.
  7. Arsonix

    Ignoring how pathetic you sound by constantly trying to micro-agress your point lets take a look at what you're actually trying to say.

    Vulcan isn't great at "150m or more". Nobody is going to argue with you and in fact nobody said anything to the contrary. Here is the thing, if it is on a Prowler then nobody gives a damn. Drop anchor mode and rip them to shreds because you have the highest DPS main canon in the game. You have nothing to complain about.

    If you have ever played 150m sniper harasser then you would know it is nearly impossible to do well no matter your loadout. Saron, Enforcer, Vulcan it doesn't matter. 300m/s across the board muzzle velocity coupled with the fact the largest MBTs barely fill up the entire CoF you would need to be stationary to reliably cause any effect on your target that can't be repaired away just as fast. It requires constant starting and stopping which is not easy. If you're actually going to dedicate yourself to playing an annoying sniper harasser everyone has access to the Halberd.

    So you can straw man all you want, it doesn't change statistics. If everyone had a choice nearly all of them would put Vulcans on their Harassers and the numbers back it up. Check it out. Vulcan harassers are pulled about three times as much as Saron or Marauders and make up about a quarter of all harassers pulled. 3 factions, 9 choices each, roughly 25% are Vulcan harassers.

    2200 TR harassers pulled on average each day. aprox 45% of them are Vulcans.
    1681 NC harassers are pulled. aprox 22% are Enforcers.
    1433 VS harassers are pulled aprox 26% are Sarons.

    This is how the other factions feel about their special harasser weapons. They want almost nothing to do with them and in fact it has had a large effect on the # of harassers pulled in general.

    If you don't think that sounds bad then I can't help you.
  8. KoS-1

    Y'all are blowing smoke and wasting time atm. Wait until the changes on the saron and enforcer, the health increases go into effect. After that...have at it!!

    I must say, every time I read these threads about harassers. Either I feel stupid or a different game is played than me. All this hogwash.

    Guess 23days TR and 6 days NC harasser running around are for not.
  9. KoS-1

    Higby for one, over the weekend, found out the hard way. It's easy to say, harder to do.
  10. Ballto21

    6*250=1500 (saron clipsize*damage=damage per clip on harasser) 90*167=15030 (Vulcan on harasser damage per clip at 10m.) 90*125=11250, vulcan clip damage at 95m.
  11. Mxiter

    Saron mag is unloaded in 1.2 sec(0.2 sec between shots), wich is more or less the vulcan spin up time.
    Then it takes around 2 sec to shoot those 25 bullet to deals as much damages as a saron mag wich give to the saron a better alpha strike.

    Of course, that's considering that the vulcan is close enouth to all bullets hits and at deals max damage (under 10m).

    Also: DPS is absurd when most important is TTK.

    Yes vulcan have ~=1.5 better TTK than enforcer and 2 sec better than saron wich is 12.5-9% better TTK at 10m.

    But it give up any kind of accuracy or ranged damages for that.

    It's the riskyest AV weapon to use and is intended to be strong at close range since long range weapons can kill stuffs at close combat, but nerver (or very luckyly) a close range weapon will kill stuffs at range. (low versatility)
    I already killed a guy with BASR at 5m, never with unslugged shotgun past 30m.

    Contrarely to infantry that generally favors close range fight (cap points assaults) i rarely see tanks battles (not talking about harassers here) at close range because of infantry AV weapons (dumbfires, C4 ect...)

    It's spin up time makes it also terrible against peek-a-boo tactics, even at mid range (wich is common against strafing magrider and slow reload vanguards).

    Is it forgiving? Yes because of larger mag, but every miss slow down the theorical TTK and it miss a lot due to it's large fixed COF wich give it the lowest skill floor, but also the lowerst skill ceiling compared to saron and enforcer that can be used in all other situation than charge-kill or die (wich don't helps the tank with the lowest survivality).

    Overall, a prowler zerg will die way faster than a vannie or swagrider one, especially if they use vulcan.

    so yes, it's a bit OP on harasser because of it's fast nature and UP on prowlers because of it's low survivability nature. But no worries, Saron enforcer rework incoming, wich gonna makes it (in my opignion) way more interesting for decent people that care to stay alive.
  12. Mxiter

    Congrats you can theorically kill way more infantrie with vulcan magazine than with saron.

    According all bullets hits those tiny moving target with a that large COF and both magdump as fast.

    But yeah disinformation and spread of game mechanics ignorance first.

    Other fun stats:
    Lib tank burster (stock) 10 020 damage per mag unloaded in 3 sec.
    Lib tank burster (max mag size) 14 696 unloaded in 4.4 sec.
    Shredder (stock) 12 500 damages unloaded in 3.7 sec.
    Shredder (max mag size): 18 750 damages unloaded in 5.6 sec

    Basiliks (stock): 12 500 damages unloaded in 8.5 sec.
    Basiliks (max mag size): 17500 damages in 12 sec.

    Conclusion: stop using saron and use basiliks, it have way more "damage per mag" than saron ;)
  13. Ballto21

    The phaseshift actually is kind of op. no bullet drop (the one time in the vs arsenal bulletdrop or lack thereof matters imo) and its easier to lead targets when you have 0.5 seconds longer to aim without firing. But if you cant see why 10x the damage per clip is overpowered than you cannot be helped. By your logic since only 1 bullet could hit its worse than the saron, when you have 90 shots, the saron has six, it has a huge rof, and again, 10x the damage per clip. Also quite a higher dps
  14. KoS-1

    Longer Vulcan TTK than Halberd TTK.vs Flash.

    Nerf the halberd please, for all those wraith flashes, o'the humanity.
  15. Mxiter

    Yeah i know about phasashift, i edited my mistake:

    Conclusion: stop using saron and use basiliks, it have way more "damage per mag" than saron and way more than the vulcan. ;)

    Just to tell that you can't compare AV weapons DPM without considering vehicles resistances.
    *The phoenix deals 750 damages? on infantries only, but 2002 against MBTs. (X2.67 against MBTs)
    Saron deals 750 damage? 1500 against ground vehicles (same as lock on)
    and the list goes on.
  16. d3adline

    What do we have here.

    Mentions Prowler main gun DPS, check. Maybe it has the highest DPS of all 3 because the Prowler has by far the least defensive capabilities of the 3 MBTs? Becuase it's a 'glasscannon'? The stats say the Prowler kills the most vehicles, but they also say the Prowler is the MBT that dies the most often. And no one complained about the Prowler here, learn to read.

    You're Vanu I guess? Hitting Vanguards and Prowlers (or even Lightnings) at range with 300m/s shouldn't be an issue, Magriders would be a problem but you don't have to fight them. And stop whinging about the Saron's CoF, maybe you should let it reset before taking the next shot? Ah, I guess it's easier to whine to the devs for nerfs/buffs instead of learning such a basic mechanic.

    And then he complains that the Vulcan is popular. Yet, funnily enough the Vulcan has barely a higher Vehicle KPU than the other two. There are a lot bigger imbalances in this game than this one. The TR's AI MAX weapons perform 20% worse than the VS's and about 40% than NC's since launch, no one complains about that. Or LMG's, you want to nerf weapons that are popular with BR 100 players? Why not nerf the Orion then? Yet, because the Vulcan is statistics wise 10% better on the Harasser, and only there, than the other two people act like their tanks explode on sight if they encouter a TR Harasser. Mostly players of the easymode faction, VS, crying to the devs with their hurt little boy faces.

    There is a reason only ****** game developers listen to forum whining, because people usually don't know what the **** they're talking about. They just want to "win" and if something is strong enough to kill them it must be OP, and not because they're **** at the game or just got outplayed. Blizzard doesn't balance its classes for WoW based on forum whining, they're using stuff like warcraftlogs for it, if they would listen to the CoD generation on the forums, the pve class balance for WoW would look equally **** like PS2's faction "balance."
  17. Arsonix

    Yes because being the smallest and fastest don't qualify as "defensive capabilities" yeah right.

    Umm... Vulcan is a weapon available to prowlers and harassers... did you forget? I was covering all the bases because your post never referred specifically to either version. Don't be an *** just because you forget things easily.

    You are just full of interesting things to say aren't you. First of all m/s is meters per second and not a measurement of distance. Second I wasn't saying anything about the Saron specifically. Even if you could hit a target 300 meters away while going 70kmph you can't compensate for the unevenness of the terrain you're going over, any obstacles that have to be dodged, any evasive maneuvers that need to be done, ect...

    Yeah show me some gameplay footage of a 13 second enforcer TTK on a sunderer while the harasser is 300 meters away. Also no more VR training videos, that isn't what really happens in the actual game. Then I'll agree with you.

    Barely yeah? Ever since they were buffed for no explicit reason it went from middle of the pack to consistently over performs. You're probably one of those guys who doesn't think the Claymore over performers over the other AP mines because it wasn't explained to you in a developer diary yet.

    And the TR's pounder has more than compensated in the AI role and AV role but I don't see you bringing that up.

    Yes please just throw in some typical Orion bandwagon hate. Your ignorance wasn't clear enough already.

    Alright you can just shut up now. You're obviously just a troll and not mature enough to handle this argument.

    GG deadbrain. I hope you work your way past your internet cretin like tendencies to one day learn to say something applicable in a balance discussion.
  18. d3adline


    Ah, the Prowler, so small. #SmallProwler and as if those 10 extra km/h FORWARD make a difference against armor that can take more beating or strafe evade incoming fire. Stop sh!tting yourself now.

    No one complained about the Prowler's version here. So I didn't mention it, maybe you should read more carefully?

    m/s isn't a measurement of distance but velocity? You don't say, Sherlock, you were the one to whine about how hard it was to hit relatively slow moving targets with a 300m/s projectile at large distances or not? Also no one said you have to go at full speed and snipe at a distance of 300m, the fact you're able to take cover behind some hill/rock, only let a small part of your vehicle be exposed and then snipe away, something that the Vulcan can't do even if it wanted more than just negates the fact that the Saron/Enforcer have slightly less dpm up close. ;)

    So, you think you can't snipe at 300m with an Enforcer onto a deployed Sunderer if you have line of sight? Which is again, something the Vulcan can't do even if it wanted. No wonder you're whining for nerfs...

    Yes, barely, just because something is more popular doesn't mean it's better. Besides, I have seen that somewhere else, the mid of the pack and then "overperforming" part... Where did I see it again? Ah, I know. ESF noseguns.

    Pounder AV role? Ah, that's cute, really really cute. You might wanna check the AV stats against the Comets and Falcons before sh!tting yourself once again. ;) The only thing they do compensate a bit for is add versatility because they're good anti MAX and ok'ish at AI, they're still by far the worst AI gun but they can rek MAXes, as opposed to the NC who gets shotguns that just ***** infantry and drops other MAXes with headshots in 2 seconds flat.

    I wasn't the one who proposed to nerf weapons based on popularity, that was you I just turned the tables... And you're the one speaking of ignorance...

    Can't handle playing easymode and being called out on it while whining for nerfs on the forums? Awww, c'mon, you disappoint me now.
  19. Arsonix

  20. Flag