VS weapon selection/arsenal need major buff/balance pass. 85% of VS arsenal selection is inferior

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Mystogan, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. Mystogan

    VS need major arsenal balanace pass. They have overall worst, least versatile weapons selection which in 80% include just nerfed versions of other faction guns. They don’t even have their own ROF/damage model, since Terminus and Zenith models are not faction models- there are just nerfed 750 ROF and slightly buffed 750 ROF model.

    VS arsenal consist of few very good weapons and yes, there are exeptionaly good weapons here. But used so much also becasue there is no alternatives for VS players. Good weapons that not need any balance changes:

    LMG: Orion, SVA-88 (Beetlejuice too, but that is 5,5k kills barrier).
    Carbines: Pulsar C, VX, Serpent
    AR: Terminus
    SMG: both are ok, but Sirius is just worse Blitz.
    MAX weapons: Blueshifts, Comets, Vortex
    Empire Specific Weapons: Lancer and Lasher (Lasher becasue it is mostly unique, not mostly effecive...)

    The rest of VS arsenal is just dam bad. Not less effective than best options (like in other two factions)- but overall bad, not worth to take or use. It is because VS do not have its own faction trait, and no bullet drop is useless trait in PS2 with its velocities and recoil patterns.

    However, for some reason VS weapons are mostly just worse/inferior copies of other faction weapons or their starter weapons are just sooo much worse than other faction ones (apart from Orion)

    Lets take a look at two VS starter weapons:

    1. Solistice (default carbine): compare to Mercenary and TRAC-5 it has: lowest DPS, lowest DPM, accuracy on pair/slightly worse than Mercenary. Only advantage: faster reload speed which is inferior if you are outgunned or outdpsed. Why again VS got worst? Why not 726 ROF model? Or better accuracy than other two? No. Inferior.

    2. Pulsar VS1 (default VS Assault Rifle): same as above when compare to Gauss Rifle and Cycler. Lower DPM, lower DPS, lower accuracy than GR. Why?

    What is the reason to give so much worse LA and Medic starter weapons to VS? I mean 698 ROF is inferior if you do not add to it some other stats, like better accuracy or velocity- like SVA-88, although it was nerfed many time for now reason, since the problem is not SVA-88 is so good. The problem is- rest VS LMGs is so bad.

    I think both starter VS weapons: AR and Carbine could use new ROF model introduced by Zenith: 726 ROF and get buffs in terms of accuracy compare to other two. Wasn’t VS trait suppouse to be accuracy? So why most NC weapons are more accurate? In exchange for what? TR get 10 more bullets and 750 ROF- good advantages to sacrifice other stats, NC get higher alpha, velocity, lower horizontal recoils… for no price, since they get GD-7F and GR-22. And VS geeeeet…no bullet drop, and pay with lower ROF, lower DPS, lower DPM, lower velocity, higher FSM and recoil patterns that sometimes are better (Pulsar C) and sometimes much worse (Flare, Zenith)- fair trade?

    Next we have worst weapons of their classes, all VS:

    - - Corvus: lowest DPS weapon in game? Why? Why not 577 rpm like Pulsar C?
    - - Ursa: lowest DPS LMG? Why? Worse version of Gauss SAW S and EM6
    - - Pulsar LSW: worse SVA-88 without any attachments. Offer no alternative in VS LMG arsenal (while GD-22S and CARV-S over something new compare to SAW/Anchor or CARV/MSW-R) and even no attachments? Why another LMG with no attachments like Orion but soooo muuuuch worse. GD-22S is also 100 cert with no attachments but It is soo good weapon, best all-rounder in NC LMG selection. Why Pulsar LSW can’t be one?
    - - Flare: worse version of Gauss SAW S. It has exactly same damage model and attachement, yet its recoil patters are all worse? Why? Why NC have better version, when it is should be just faction copy available for all factions?
    - - Polaris: EM1 without extended magazine? Why?
    - - Zenith: 0,75 carbine but compare to Bandit and Jag: worst horizontal recoil pattern, no ammo attachment, low velocity, nefred ROF compare to Jag. Again- why nerfed version without any advantages over others?
    - - Spiker: Worse desperado, with 2 more bullets in mag with useless chargeup mechanic, much worse than Repeater. Why not make it 4x burst 100 dmg or something? Or 3x burst. Just why again VS weapon is nerfed NC weapon (Desperado)
    - - Cerberus: Worse Rebel. Why? 8 m max damage range vs Rebel 10m max damage range- why?
    - - Sirius: worse Blitz: same stats, but Blitz has much less horizontal shake in ADS- AGAIN- WHY?
    - - CME: T5 AMC version for AR. But again- why for medics?? What role should it fill in medic role which is 90% time inside building doing their job.
    - - Solistace SF: why 652 ROF? It is just MUCH worse T5 AMC- why even introduce it when VS have Pulsar C? What this weapon fill? Nothing. Again- nerfed version.
    - - Eridani: while Eridani is very good why does it use 750/143 standard model compare to Cyclone 652/167 unique model or Armistace 896/125 unique model? Why again VS are not unique? Why not 769 model or 800/143 model? Again- why not something unique?

    Why so much VS weapons are just inferior/nerfed copies of other faction weapons. Both NC and TR have really good starting weapons for LA and Medic. Why VS have worst of three with some inferior stats? Why Corvus or Ursa are both super nerfed NC weapons?

    I love VS, but many times I ask myself why I am not playing TR or NC just to be able to pick more weapons, to change playstyle, to auraxium more. Just to have more diversity.


    On NC and TR I enjoy auraxiuming starter weapons. I don’t like SAW, I prefer CARV and Orion. But from NC and TR defaults I can move to whole arsenal of good weapons to auraxium (LMGs for NC, AR for TR, carbines for both) while on VS, I skip starter weapons, buy upgrade (apart from Orion, from which I really don’t want to move to any other inferior LMG other than SVA) like Serpent/Pulsar C and Terminus or…Terminus… and do not bother with other weapons.

    And since starter defaults in AR and carbines are inferior to NC/TR defaults, so are Directive ones, so I have no reason to try and get one. While on NC and TR I will welcome upgraded Mercenary and TRAC-5 with Under Barrel attachment to add some fun to already great weapons. Merc is still considered with TRAC-5 one of best Carbines, while Solistice is just…well… ummm….yea. Inferior.

    I know that NC and TR cried about PPA, now cry about L-PPA- ok, that is cool. I understand frustration, I also didn’t like to be farmed by Banshee or being insta-gib by NC-MAX.

    But why overall infantry VS arsenal is sooo bad? I don’t know who at former SOE designed VS arsenal but it is so fked up weapon selection with so many inferior versions of other faction weapons that it is just pathethic from FPS design point of view.

    I really hope that new team will do what Higby with his anti-VS, anti-TR team did not- make a huge balance pass on VS arsenal to buff inferior weapons and change some to add some unique and fun and effective choices for VS.

    I find no dam reason why VS were so shafted with their weapon selection…. Orion is with Anchor best LMGs in game, and Puslar C is best long range carbine in game. But diversity and effecitvness for rest? Suck.

    I have small hopes after 2 years, but still- I ask you DBS, make some pass on VS arsenal.
    • Up x 8
  2. sindz

    But you are forgetting the VS have no bullet drop trait - which is so blatantly OP that every single VS weapon is inferior in term of DPM. Oh and highest FSR is a faction trait aswell.

    Glad i moved on to NC which have all the upsides and 0 downsides.
    • Up x 1
  3. SanPelicano

    Dont touch my tralala, uhmm my ding ding dong!!!!

    My first auraxiumed weapon and all of the time that I spent with it was pure ecstasy..
    • Up x 4
  4. Kloz

    H-V45 anyone?
    • Up x 1
  5. Prudentia

    nerfed TRV
    • Up x 4
  6. Mystogan

    nerfed TAR to be precise 800/143 model. But yea, another nerfed other faction weapon that VS got...
    • Up x 4
  7. Mongychops

    I'd like to try and make things a little more concise:

    • Very poor weapon diversity: Pretty much all VS ARs and Carbines are 30x143 with a tendency toward low RoF (the 167 damage versions are similar, Pulsar C is good Corvus is too low RoF), the LMGs are mostly low magazine size 143 damage weapons, and when you finally get a weapon class with two 167 damage weapons, they are both near clones (75x167 with low RoF).
    • Existing weapons overlap with the NS weapons. NS weapons are low RoF 143 damage weapons, just like most of the VS arsenal. In the case of VS AR and Carbines, it means the NS-11 A & C overlap with several VS weapons. This compounds the previous problem.
    • There isn't really any idea of what a VS weapon is. the NC enjoy a wide variety of weapon types, and the NS weapons complement their arsenal well. The TR initially a similar issue as the VS (though their large magazine size and generally higher than average RoF at the expense of horizontal recoil was in place), but with the addition of 125 damage weapons there is at least a known direction. Currently the VS have been given heat on their auraxium weapons as a novelty, but there is still not really anything particularly "VS" about small arms since they lost their unique damage profiles.
    • Up x 1
  8. Plastikfrosch

    My mainchar is Vanu and yes: we nearly always have lowest damage per mag and the TTK is just avarage but i have to say that the acuracy of our default carbine and AR is pretty awsome. I loved playing the Solstice VE3 and Solstice Burst to auraxium BUT now there is only the Pulsar C as a good carbine. Serpent, VX and Zenith are more CQ-weapons and not versatile enough.
    I decided to go for the NS11c because of acuracy and 0,75 ADS movement multiplier.
    And i think that should be the vanu trait.
    We have ailien tech!!
    Why are our weapons weak and heavy --> and why is the default LMG the one with the 0,75 ADS?? its big and heavy while a carbine is a light weapon but it only has 0,5 ADS??!!
    If other factions get better TTKs and damage per Mag, give us the movement speed. Playing the NS11c feels so great, because i see how the hostile bullets miss me while strifing left and right and because of the precision i can hit them even on long ranges.
    The VS specific zenith does feel wierd compared to the TR and NC 0,75 ADS weapons. its not as acurate and i dont get the joke why our heavys get 750 and our medics a 800rpm weapon with 0,75ADS but the carbine has only 725rpm?? The muzzle velocity is also the worst.
    So when it comes to most of our weapons i cant complain about the acuracy, its great but we lose in fights over range because our weapons lose damage over range faster than the other factions (and again: WHY? WE HAVE ALIEN TECH!!!), and we have to reload more often because we have (most of the time) the lowest damage per mag --> so we are not allowed to miss as much shots as the other factions.
    ----> And because the other factions are allowed to miss more shots, we should get the 0,75ADS multiplier as a trait for our weapons, so that we are able to make them miss some shots more.
    Only heavy hitting weapons (167dps like Ursa should not get it because of hard hitting in combination with good acuracy --> yes i like the ursa, even while not playing heavy to much).
    And the other factions should not be able to whine about that to much because it does not make our weapons stronger especially over range it only alowes us to dodge a few shots before they get used to our speed.
  9. Jovisfulmina

    You didn't need to post such a big pile of crap about weapons you just can't use properly.

    You call the Corvus bad when it's the most accurate AR out there, stick your dps somewhere else, that's not the ultimate stat ever like you might think.
    You call the CME bad because it's not cqb oriented, just play with HV-45/Terminus if you want to cqb, CME fits a niche inbetween Corvus and Pulsar VS-1 and I love it.
    Pulsar LSW is a cheap and low recoil LMG, good for beginners.
    You call the Cerberus a "bad rebel" whereas is has much more RoF.
    You compare the Solstice SF to the T5 AMC instead of the Trac-5S, how clueless can you be ?

    Yes, we have problems like several weapons fitting the same niche or copy/paste weapons, but if you come here just to say that half our stuff sucks you're just a hyperbolic whinning *****.
    • Up x 2
  10. Auzor

    I don't enitrely disagree, however:
    I honestly think blueshifts aren't the only "good" VS max AI weapon.
    The Ursa is an interesting design, at least; consider that there are 167 carbines with 550 rpm too.

    Flare: yeah.. umm.. I got nothing!

    Corvus could be 550 rpm, too.
    Still, it follows the logic of having 750 rpm & 652 rpm weapons.
    They reduced firerate by a similar fraction as 652 rpm weaponry.

    VS side-arms:
    manticore is a mag-shot. Or 99% mag-shot.

    Cerberus is actually pretty good: trades max damage range (compared to rebel) for increased rate of fire. Also, different sights. <3.

    Spiker isn't a downgrade to Desperado anymore either;
    Lose 20 rpm for:
    slightly better ads starting accuracy
    slightly less bloom/shot
    more bullets/mag
    slightly longer max dmg range
    charge-up fire mode.
    Honestly, I don't think I would complain if Spiker & Desperado where switched around at this point. I'm not sure I would notice..

    between mag-scatter & beamer, I think beamer is the better one.

    Zenith: well..
    short-rang-y dps VS already had both the VX-6-7 and the Serpent.
    I figure it is a replacement for the default Solstice, not "competition" CQC for the Serpent.

    CME: it has a role; it is functional.
    What do you reckon the NC Albatross is for; or the TR Sabr-13?
  11. Scorponok

    Considering the range most of the infantry fighting happens...no bullet drop is worthless..they have pretty much the worst faction trait..
    • Up x 3
  12. Eternaloptimist

    I would have thought that lower recoil, no bullet drop and faster reloads give a good asymmetrical balance versus other faction weapons. But some of these also appear to be NS weapon traits. I don't know how well this applies to each arsenal in practice but the combination of traits seems to boil down to:
    • NC slow but powerful
    • TR fast but less accurate
    • NS slow but accurate
    • That would leave VS with powerful but less accurate (I ruled out powerful and fast as OP and slow but less accurate as UP))
    The question is whether anyone would want a big hitting weapon you can't really hit with reliably.
  13. sindz

    Except VS doesnt have any of those traits. They dont have lower recoil, they are middle of the road, NC has the least TR the most. Yes, they have no bullet drop on weapons where it doesnt matter - and the con for this is lower velocity or lower ROF. Reload speed isnt faction specific, its ROF dependent.

    EDIT: VS also generally have the higest first shot recoil.
    • Up x 1
  14. Ballto21

    Not sure if serious?
    On the T5 AMC as an example bulletdrop only matters at 90 meters. I have almost never seen a LA engage that far unless shooting at a sniper to cause flinch

    Bulletdrop=pointless on non infiltrator classes
    • Up x 2
  15. Ballto21

    The Vortex is bad. Just awful. On the lancer the charge mechanic works decently, but the Vortex is inferior to comets in every way. "But ballto, velocity" Its worse at a distance than ravens, and in mid to close range to a tank you wont have time to charge it.

    If you really want to give the VS a functional buff and trait remove long reloads from our weapons without changing much else (if anything)

    Thematically it makes sense, functionally it does too. It wont take you longer to change your TV remote batteries because theyre completely drained.

    Increased accuracy VIA lowered horizontal jitter too
  16. Mystogan

    Corvus might be most accurate but that doesn't mean it has to be useless for anything else. Pulsar C is also most accurate and it has 577 rpm. Corvus could use same ROF just to be more useful.

    Solistace SF is 652 with comepensator, grip and 515 m/s with HVA to equip. It is totally usless in CQC. T5 AMC has same model/stats but better velocity/AFG and better recoil stats. That is why I compared them. The only other weapon you can compare stat-wise is NS AR but that is for all faction. TRAC 5-S is at least 698 rpm, so it is not at least as useless as 652 rmp carbine. What else role do you see for SF if not mid-long range in which other same model/stat profile weapons for better? CQC? Not with this rpm. It says in description that SF has "ability to adapt to nearly any scenario."- which is BS.

    Solistace is inferior enough to Merc and TRAC-5. So we have S version which is inferior to other carbines S version becasue again to looses rpm even more? Great!

    Pulsar LSW is inferior SVA. There is not place for it in VS arsenal. It does not offer anything that SVA do not make better. GD-22S (100 cert equivalent of Pulsar) on other hand offers both great mid-long range accuracy, good hipfire with laser and super fast reload. LSW do not offer anything over SVA. It has slightly better recoil, whole GD-22S has a lot better horizontal recoil, making it much better at any distance and true all-rounder for NC.

    Yes, I stand that they are bad. You didn't convience me. They do not fullfull any role that other factions ARs fullfill better.
    • Up x 2
  17. z1967

    The downside of having mostly 143/30 weapons is huge. Almost all of the non-CQC VS weapons that have that DPM model need at least 5 more rounds. They can gain a slightly slower reload, as per usual.

    VS seem to mainly have a few standout "good" weapons and then a bunch of trash nobody ever uses. TR seem to have a wide variety of "meh" weapons that are balanced/good but boring with some exceptions. NC seem to have the best diversity as far as weapons go.

    A big weapon balance pass update is needed for VS weapons, many need more DPM, better ROF models, or just to not be NC/TR downgrades. If you have to scrap no bullet drop for it, so be it. Its a useless trait on most weapons anyway.
    • Up x 2
  18. AlterEgo

    I love everyone on this thread. But if I could make a few suggestions:

    Lasher: Increase splash radius and damage to 100 and 5 meters, respectively.

    Flare: During the day, give it 50% less recoil. During nighttime, give it 35% worse recoil.

    LSW: Give it the smallest CoF in the game. By that, I mean a dot.

    Pulsar VS1: Gets a 1% damage increase proportionate to the amount of HP healed. 1% damage bonus= 250 health healed.

    Solstice: While ADSing, recoil and accuracy remain constantly NONEXISTENT (as in recoil does not exist and CoF never changes), but hipfiring increases RoF yet makes the CoF expand 15% faster than it does right now.

    ALL VS SNIPER RIFLES: No bullet drop. Drop off faster at range. Example (and a very inaccurate one):
    Bolt Driver: 600 up to 100 meters, 400 at 260.
    XM98: 600 up to 85 meters, 400 at 230.

    That's all I have. As for TR and NC weapons, they need more diversity, too, only it may be slightly harder to achieve considering they are not alien factions with a plethora of fictional abilities, but it could be done.
  19. sindz

    I was being sarcastic :) I agree its completely pointless trait that comes with a ton of downsides.
  20. FnkyTwn

    Just give Vanu the fastest reloads. That would fix things AND play into the heat mechanic.

    Also, make the Spikers secondary fire an EMP. Give it a one shot, long charge EMP. (Somebody else had this idea and it's a great one)