VS: The Forgotten Faction

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Ruvan, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. Ruvan

    Recently there has been a lot of talk on Forumside and Redditside about the global Vanu under-population. In my opinion, this is due to being in a very sorry state when it comes to overall balance and quality of life. The player-base is well aware of these issues and therefore there has been a shift away from playing the faction. This has to change. The developers need to pay the VS much more attention. To elaborate:

    Small arms

    VS only have two really competitive ES LMGs, the Orion and the Flare, in comparison to the vast majority of the NC/TR LMG arsenal being viable.

    The Lasher is completely useless in practice. The devs seem to be caught up in the idea of this weapon when it comes to balance and don't see how the grief system makes it practically useless due to weapons lock. In comparison, NC/TR have both had several big Heavy Weapon overhauls that make their versions actually useful.

    VS Carbines are just inferior both in competitiveness and selection to TR/NC's. For example, the NC's high RPM CQC Carbine, the GD7-F, is hugely controllable for a close range weapon. One of TR's high RPM CQC weapon, the LC3 Jaguar, has the much sought after 0.75x ADS movement speed multipler. The VS's only viable CQC Carbine, the VX6-7, doesn't have anything to counterbalance these desirable characteristics. Additionally, the TR/NC have access to every single Carbine play-style that VS does, yet also have ES-specific play-styles that VS doesn't have access to. Ex. Trac 5 (controllable high RPM/low TTK Carbine) and AC-X11 (very long range).

    Assault Rifles. Again, a similar story. You get the idea by now. Like LMGs, TR/NC just have a larger variety of competitive options.

    Pistols. VS pistols are just completely generic to the extent that most experienced players are using NS pistols. NC and TR both have ES pistols that have meaningful advantages that make them worth using over NS pistols. For example, big magazines (Inquisitor), less damage fall-off (Rebel) and high RPM (Repeater).

    New weapons

    Before we move on, I'd like to express my frustration at the dev team for making a high proportion of the new VS weapons awful. To name specific weapons: the Cerebus, Phaseshift and Zenith. The Cerebus is just an objectively inferior Rebel. It was even worse when it was added because it was penalized on CoF. The Zenith is rather uncontrollable for a 723 RPM and I feel it's been too heavily taxed for 0.75x ADS movement speed and access to the nearly useless (on this weapon) Advanced Laser Sight. Lets not even talk about the Phaseshift...

    MAX weapons/ZOE

    MAX AI arms. This is a minor one but VS AI arms are slightly inferior to the TR's arms, which do a little more DPS and have a higher rate of fire. It would be nice to have a little something like a slight CoF or velocity advantage to balance this.

    Short range AV weapons. Comets are just blatantly inferior to Falcons/Pounders. Pounders have 25% more velocity (drop is meaningless at close range) and can kill two infantry in one magazine. Falcons have 50% more velocity, can one shot infantry and have more alpha damage when peeking corners. Pounders can almost one mag a non-flak armor MAX. With a little damage from another source, the enemy MAX will be dead in a single MAX from Pounders.

    Long range AV weapons. TR and NC both get a type of weapon that is different from their ESRL. That is an advantage in itself. The Vortex might be more accurate than a Fracture/Raven but at many ranges this does not justify the damage loss. I'd like the see an alternative ammunition for the Vortex that increases damage at the cost of effective range.

    ZOE. It's rubbish. I'm personally very frustrated that's it's been left in a state of near uselessness for so long. It needs to be changed to actually be useful in both infantry fights and vehicle fights. Currently it does absolutely nothing in vehicle fights, whereas lock-down and the shield both do.

    The Lancer

    Don't get me wrong, the Lancer is a good rocket launcher. However, it requires a lot more teamwork to use effectively than TR/NC equivalents. It takes five Phoenix/Striker users to alpha the front of a Magrider/Prowler. It takes seven Lancer users to alpha the front of the same vehicles.

    Like the Vortex, I'd like the Lancer to get an alternative ammunition type that increases damage but reduces range, to put the weapon in-line with the TR/NC equivalents when it comes to teamwork requirements.

    The Magrider

    It's a good tank in general and roughly well balanced. However, I have some complaints: quality of life features, gun elevation and lack of alternative play styles.

    The biggest quality of life feature that the Magrider needs is the ability for the driver to look behind the tank. The tank spends a lot of time going backwards, why shouldn't the driver be able to see where he's going?

    The second quality of life feature that I think needs addressing is the way zoom interacts with the mouse acceleration on the Magrider primary weapon. Using zoom is ill-advised because it makes moving your mouse left and right really really difficult (feels sticky) due to the mouse acceleration.

    The third quality of life feature is a separate mouse sensitivity slider for the Magrider drivers seat. Driving a Magrider requires a different mouse sensitivity to gunning vehicles, meaning that people are constantly fiddling their sliders, which is very annoying.

    The Magrider also has very poor weapon elevation that makes us less able to fight back against aircraft and less able to fire at enemies above or below us.

    Lastly, due to the Magrider lacking the DPS of a Prowler and the survivability of a Vanguard, the tank is very pigeon-holed in terms of play-style. I'd like to see some more options here.
    • Up x 9
  2. Badname3073

    That's asymmetrical balance. The VS has the PPA, the Serpent, the Orion, the SVA, the H-V45 and the Beamer.
    • Up x 5
  3. Iridar51

    Agreed. Perhaps, Lasher could have friendly fire turned off? Or add a secondary fire mode that turns it into a 143/652 LMG, so it can be used when friendlies are too close.

    What about Zenith? It's basically a sidegrade to Jaguar, and has similar recoil properties.

    Pulsar C has perhaps the best recoil pattern in the game with 0.175-0.175 @ 0.3 horizontal recoil with no angle. Not even mentioning advanced forward grip.
    Solstice is your controllable-high RPM carbine. It has better recoil and reload than TRAC 5, but lower DPM and DPS. Seems fair to me.
    • Up x 2
  4. Outreach

    Abloobloobloo VS killed me so VS op. Stats don't matter unless crying about VS then they undeniable proof that VS is op.

    There I summed up what the entire thread will be.
    • Up x 2
  5. z1967

    The butt of the joke of VS pistols since PS1's release... Next to the Spiker :|

    In other news, I really do hope they give VS a rethink and overhaul. A better overhaul than TR got would be nice. Or just allow all VS weapons to attach all types of attachments since versatility is a trait of theirs (but not all the attachments at once).
  6. GeneralPeragorn

    The Vanu's max has always been the best performing actually, even before ZOE, and I believe they are more accurate at range. I totally get you for the ability though, and well, no faction is really happy about theirs.

    Vanu weapons aren't bad. They're just boring. I think the phaseshift was actually a step in the right direction. A choice between bolt action and semi-auto, a heat meter, and unlimited ammo. All you need to be able to do is hold charge and have a great weapon there. Right now though it's lack luster. Add a couple of standard AI guns, maybe one for each class, which instead of ammo uses the heat mechanic and I think that'd put the VS weapons in a nice place.
    • Up x 3
  7. Fellgnome

    I think you have to admit some part of this is aesthetic(purple / spandex), but I agree VS is not an appealing faction for a number of other reasons. I don't think it's that VS is getting ignored, however, it's just that faction balance and factions traits have never been the strong suit of those left manning the PS2 ship and VS is currently getting the short end in many ways. Also the VS' faction trait(s) are clearly something they struggle with, as it's easy to do high RoF or high damage per shot for TR/NC, VS inherently requires more finesse and not just raw stat tweaks - not that I don't wish they'd use more finesse with TR/NC as well though.

    I would actually go as far as to say the Orion is the only competitive LMG for VS, but I'd also say it's overpowered. They certainly need better LMG selection. TR's LMGs are not as good as you suggest either, but I'd still admit they've got more workable options overall. However...I'd probably trade all of TR's LMGs for the Orion if given the chance.

    Carbines I disagree. I think they're in a slightly better spot than TR because they actually have both a competitive low TTK CQC weapon(Serpent) and a strong mid-long range option(Pulsar C), but the Zenith didn't quite pan out as their "gap filler". I'd say GD-7F and Mercenary are better, but VS isn't too bad off. I think the VX6-7 is also a great gun. TR OTOH has too many weapons competing in the middle area, along with two lackluster mid-long range guns that I'd trade for a Pulsar C/Mercenary no question. NC > VS > TR in terms of carbine effectiveness and variety.

    Assault Rifles are where VS really suffers infantry wise. Hands down worst AR selection. I haven't toyed with the Terminus yet, but the only other AR worth using on VS is the H-V45, the rest are trash and many of them are basically a straight downgrade to the NS-11A. I go into this in more detail in the topic in my sig.

    Edit: Oh right pistols. I almost forgot VS had faction specific pistols :p

    Yeah.. not much to say, VS pistols are bad and they've been bad for a long time. Definitely agree with you there.

    You already have CoF advantage with the Blueshifts. Blueshifts > Mercies, and the accurate AI weapons are generally better/more popular since you can more reliably headshot making up for lower DPS, plus you get much better effective range. What should probably happen with MAX AI options is improvements in variation and usability amongst the other options for both VS and TR.
  8. Outreach

    No it wasn't. Stop this. VS max was the worst preforming before zoe, all the weapons were bugged and had cof that wouldn't reset. The best preforming VS max ai weapon was bursters and bursters also kept up with the original comets performance wise as well. Once ZOE was released they fixed all the bugged guns THEN the performance of our maxes went up. You're literally pulling "VS max was the best preforming" out of your butt.
  9. Ronin Oni

    no no, I think you were on to something there

    :D :D :D
  10. Ruvan

    • The Serpent is garbage is comparison to VX6-7.
    • The SVA-88 has been horribly horribly nerfed and is now just the training-wheels version of an Orion tbh.
    • The H-V45 is just a carbon copy of the other 800 RPM assault rifles from the other factions. There is no real difference.
    • The Beamer is just bad. I can't think of one reason (bar suppressor) to use it over a Underboss or Commisioner. If you can think of an argument, I'd like to hear it.
    That leaves PPA and the Orion.

    Sure, the Orion is a good close range LMG, but the NC6 Gauss SAW and T9 CARV are also good for their intended purposes. The SAW is the ultimate long range LMG and the T9 Carv is a more controllable mid range Orion (it recently had stealth buffs).

    PPA... it's a difficult one. Yes, it's the best secondary AI weapon, but the Magrider is more secondary dependant than the other tanks. You could also argue that it's not PPA that needs a nerf but the Marauder and Cannister that need a buff. PPA is actually worth using. I rarely see anyone using the Marauder or Cannister.
    • Up x 2
  11. NinjaTurtle

    Vanu are not under powered at all they are just incredibly boring. Considering they are the technological faction hey really don't have anything fun or inventive.

    NC are the poster boys of this game
    • Up x 2
  12. Ruvan

    I was really excited when Zenith was released because I really love the LC3 Jaguar and I thought it would be a Vanu-ish version of that weapon. Unfortunately, after auraxiaming it I came to the conclusion it was a bit lackluster and dropped the weapon.

    I feel like the LC3 Jaguar with an Advanced Laser Sight is just more accurate, for whatever reason, than a Zenith. Add to that the fact the Jag has more DPS and a much tighter hip fire CoF (assuming Zenith has the A. Foward Grip).

    I'd really like the Zenith to be a viable weapon, but in it's current state I think VX6-7 is just plain better.

    I don't get what you are trying to imply with the bit about the Puslar C. Yes, it's a good weapon. However, AC-X11 is still going to **** it at range. We might have a good long range Carbine as VS, and an okay short range Carbine, the problem is everything in the middle.

    Solstice is a good weapon on paper. However, I just find it's so general purpose it really isn't good at anything. If I'm fighting at range I'd rather have as much effective range as possible, in which case I'm taking a Pulsar C because it isn't really penalized versus a Solstice until quite close ranges. Solstice doesn't have the oomph to be a short range weapon either. The Mercenary has a bit more range and the TRAC 5 has a bit more oomph that make them less general purpose weapons.
  13. Vikingo

    • Up x 1
  14. hawken is better

    • Up x 1
  15. Cyridius

    Why bother fighting the VS on Emerald when I can actually have fun?
  16. Loui5D

    The lancer, vortex and the lasher are some of my favourite weapons in the entire game.

    Imo the lancer + vortex should have a reveresd damage degradation model, the further away the target is the more it should do. They also need a much higher zoom (Vortex needs it badly as it has none)

    The lasher is extremely powerful against maxes as it bypasses their flak resistance, but i do agree it should be a lasher and not a splasher. When i do use the lasher instead of trying to shoot someone i aim for their feet/the floor as i'm guaranteed to do a decent amount of damage.


    In regards to ZOE, it needed the nerf badly. I would prefer it just to be removed so you have jump jets. I doubt it will ever be buffed again after the state that it was left in last year because there were very little downsides to it; the downsides it did have were negated when used in a co-op/teamwork based enviroment. As each max would have a pocket engie which would keep it topped up on health.

    The VS ai weapons are vastly inferior to the TR weapons with their COF, the only exception being the blueshift.
    The AV weapons (comets) have some pretty damn good advantages over their NC/TR equivalents.

    I don't disagree with you, but i don't neccessarily fully agree with you either.
  17. Vixxing

    You can get 2 shots off in one breath with Phaseshift, after straightpull bolts are added you can get 5 shots of with any BASR, just with superior damage, no annoying 0.7 second delay and higher projectilespeed... they are also practically Semi -auto... again with higher damage, better projectilespeed and HIGHER rate of fire... (you need to cool PS after 3 shots) tell me again why Phaseshift is useful?
    • Up x 1
  18. sindz

    Agree with everything.

    The problem with VS are atm:

    Assault rifles. They are horrible and offer no choices. The corvus has the longest TTK of all the guns in the game, its horrible.

    Lancer, Vortex, Lasher: All are bad when used alone, the argument that "LOL ITS OP IF YOU HAVE 20 OF THEM". Show me one weapon that isnt OP when 20 people are using it. Its the biggest piece of **** argument I've ever heard. Meanwhile both other factions can be used to great effect on your own.

    Also, choices. VS are bland and boring, you dont really get the choices other factions have.
  19. Plunutsud pls

    We're doing fine on Emerald.
    • Up x 1
  20. uhlan

    I just have to say, all factions underpopped will get their ***** handed to them on a regular basis.

    It's not your faction weaponry, but your population and your individual skill that determines the amount of angst you feel during any given play session.

    People aren't driven away by a factions "bad weaponry", but by human nature which draws them to the "zerg" faction on that particular server. Once the snowball effect begins in that regard, it's very hard to stop and you get server dominance. Players that arrive during or after this phenomenon tend to blame the factions flavor for their predicament

    BTW, eliminating friendly fire is a horrible idea and should never be brought up in polite company.... EVER!
    • Up x 1