"VS OP" Why?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Vanguard540, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. pnkdth

    Data tells us different but it is ok if you want to bury your head in the sand. Personally I hate sand, it is coarse and gets everywhere.

    If you're at those distances you're not dodging, they're missing. If you were in a Vanguard you wouldn't be saying you dodged it, for example.
  2. Campagne

    The data does not. In what way would the numbers suggest otherwise? The discussion is over pnkdth, my data analysis has the high ground.
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  3. pnkdth

    Well, s***. Jumped right into that one.
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  4. Johannes Kaiser

    In a Vanguard I'd not have been able to strafe so they narrowly missed by hitting just below the hitbox on the sides. They definitely would have hit. And the range was about 60-80 m, not that far away.
  5. pnkdth

    It is the setting and distance which doesn't make sense. Both the Python and AV turret users must actively be aiming for your edges for you to be able to steer clear of them. The Python, for example, has a 240m/s projectile. That leaves you at best 0.333 seconds to react and move out of the way (at worst 0.25 seconds). Constantly dodging the AV turret at this distance, which can easily negate the magrider's mobility, yeah, nope. Add into all of that, you're not even used to the Maggie but are doing some next level stuff (while also keeping track of the hitbox).

    From my point of view it sounds like confirmation bias, e.g. you knew beforehand the magrider can dodge thus all misses become dodges and confirm that "wow, the Magrider really is amazing!" I am sure that some of it could be attributed to its mobility and it should since that's how a Magrider makes up for the lack of HP on the Vanguard and the lack of DPS on the Prowler. I just don't buy the casual ease of which you performed it and the account of how you claimed it happened.
  6. Johannes Kaiser

    Not really. I hit ADAD all the time, so I was hard to hit, and generally they hit the floor where my mid-section had been half a second before. And thanks to the AV turret's angle I could even backpedal and boost forward to throw it off. It was really fun.
  7. pnkdth

    I'm sure you could. If you're going to troll, make it believable. Good day.
  8. That_One_Kane_Guy

    As a math exercise let's assume the Magrider is ~9m wide*. If you are standing still when he fires and assuming he is aiming for your centerline then in order to get out of the way the Magrider would need to be capable shifting 4.5m in about 1/3 of a second which is an acceleration of over 80m/s^2.

    I think it's pretty safe to say your anecdote is more of a product of your opponent's lack of skill than any fanciful abilities of your equipment.

    *This is a Rectal Extraction figure, not that it matters much since even assuming the Maggie is a tiny 7m wide still yields a lateral acceleration of over 60m/s^2 which is still blatantly in excess of its actual capabilities.
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  9. Obscura

  10. Obscura

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  11. Johannes Kaiser

    Quite, dodging projectiles by reacting to them is not really possible. Agreed.
    But if you keep wiggling like you got a snail in your butt, that throws off a lot of shots, because aiming properly for that is hard, so they need to be either good or really close or lucky. If the opponent is neither, well, good for you, right?
    My point is, being a hard target can keep you alive longer than the Vanguard shield. And being able to run over waist-high obstacles without repercussion opens up a lot of roads that no other vehicle may tread, except possibly the Harrassser that has a 50/50 chance of flipping over when trying.
  12. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Reacting? At full lateral speed you'll shift maybe half a meter in the time it takes an AP shell to travel a hundred. On top of that it takes roughly half a second to stop, let alone to change direction. You can barely dodge by predicting.

    No, the point is that if I aim for the center of your Magrider I will hit you no matter how many mollusks you've got up there, because you physically cannot get out of the way fast enough. That's being a hard target in the same way running a red light is being a hard criminal.
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  13. OldSchoolD

    Will chip in, as a 4th faction guy who plays lvl 120 TR and NC and currently running lvl 116 VS, I'd say that the VS arsenal is MUCH easier for the non advanced player, but it weaker for the veteran player. I find TR to be faction with the best all-around weapons in game.
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  14. Atorum

    Its always been a moron friendly faction, its what devs wanted.
    Best ESF, best MBT and best infantry weapons are just a coincidence...
  15. iller

    I can't in good conscience agree with this. If anything, superior accuracy that matches one's tracking is always going to be preferred by finesse players who value timing (and frame-data) over LOTTERY mechanics like the Gauss Saw and Mercys

    ... and that's a snake eating itself that explains why the heavily coordinating objective-oriented Focus-fire minded players all migrated away from the 2 factions that needed them most and the Devs could seen this coming a mile away but they chose to just let it happen because they couldn't find the courage to reverse it
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  16. OneShadowWarrior

    I would like there projectile effects to be toned down in mass, it’s when they multiply in forces, you can’t see anything when they shoot. Chiefly in large groups. Cosmetically at least and start there.
  17. DarkStarAnubis

    100% infantry player here and that would be my impression as well.
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  18. pnkdth

    The NC and the Anchor was the top choice in the competitive meta. The only time VS was on the menu was back when they had a 0.75 ADS on the Orion. Not even the PPA made for competitive events since it was too situational (you were no longer farming clueless plebs but an organised opposition).

    Aside from the Orion/BG, I do not think VS have any weapon which is uniquely more accurate in their class. 0.04 bloom per shot versus 0.05 bloom per shot compared to the MSW-R (the MSW-R also have access to SPA and have a lower recoil). Fairly certain there aren't any other weapon classes where VS is more accurate. There are a few weapons with unstable ammo but that is just a useless gimmick at this point (and should be revamped entirely).

    Also, Wrel did a video a long while ago on how to use the SAW. Old video at this point but it should help to deal with the issues you have. TL;DR version: You should stutter-step in order to maximise its use since it has a perfect 0.00 bloom when stationary. It doesn't make much sense as a default weapon but calling it a lottery weapon is not accurate (so punny :p).

    Every faction have their selection of gems and turds, you just gotta use what works rather than what doesn't.
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  19. Campagne

    You know I had to do this. I was going to respond to the whole post but that's been said and done more times than any of us care to recount. So I'll just point out the weapons by class in which the VS are notably more accurate...

    • Orion -- 0.04 Bloom compared to standard 0.05 per 143/~750s
    • Betelgeuse -- 0.04 Bloom compared to standard 0.05 per 143/~750s
    • Pulsar -- 0.04 Bloom compared to standard 0.05 per 143/~750s
    • Lacerta -- 0.05 Bloom compared to standard 0.06 per 167/~600s
    • Horizon -- 0 Bloom compared to standard 0.06 per 167/~600s
    • Canis -- 0.05 Bloom compared to standard 0.06 per 167/~600s
    Source is https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Weapons
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  20. pnkdth

    Cheers. So there are a handful of weapons then, three of which have their own quirks (low TTK SMG which becomes better the worse your aim is and usually the more dead you are). Lacerata being a low TTK burst weapon. Finally, the Horizon being the unique oddball it is (like combination of slugs and scattergun but not really). Good catch on the LSW though, I forgot that change.

    The point remains, claiming "all VS infantry weapons" are somehow magically more accurate is incorrect. What most people really mean, probably, is that the BG (possibly even the Orion but if you standardise that one you need to give it something else since otherwise it would just be an objectively worse MSW-R) is OP but it is easier to just throw your (in the general sense) hands in the air and claim everything is OP.
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