Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Vanguard540, Jan 14, 2020.
The only thing op in my mind are harassers, especially in combined with the Vulcan
Who would have guessed. In anycase I checked the facts on this one and it seems you are right that the VS have more fully crewed MBTs. This from comparing the proportions of Unique Users of the tank cannons to the users of the topguns Halberd + ES anti vehicle on a typical day. An interesting find is that TR has twice the number of Halberd users to Gatekeeper users, NC has about 1.7 Halberds per Enforcer, but VS has more or approximately equal amount of Saron HRB users to Halberds.
The Saron has no bulletdrop and is pinpoint accurate if fired slowly enough. This unique trait gives it an advantage in tank fights at range where Halberd users of average skill needs to "home in" on the target, wasting several shots in the process. The Saron also has faster muzzle velocity, faster reload, 6 semi-automatically fired shots in the magazine that deal 150 damage each (6*150 > 600 DMG per Halberd round) and can be unloaded rapidily at close range without the accuracy penality for doing so having any impact. When rapidly firing (say 1 second to empty the magazine) it has a DPS of 6*150 DMG / 3s reload + 1s refire = 225 DPS. This is superior to the Halberd's 600DMG / 3.25s reload = 184 DPS, the Enforcer's 8*325 DMG / 4s reload + 8s refire = 216 DPS, and the Gatekeeper's 8*100 DMG / 3.2s reload + 0.8s refire = 200 DPS.
I cant hold all the " mimimimi VS is OP " anymore ..
I was thinking VS was OP before, now I'm playing VS and thinking TR vehicles are actually a lot better than VS's.
Magrider vs Prowler is a clear win for Prowler due to its higher DPS and defense. Vulcan harassers and Mosquitoes(with any weapon) are better than their VS counterparts as well in 1v1 situations. Scythe has a huge hitbox which is a huge disadvantage. Banshee mosquitoes clear any soft target instantly while PPA's ttk sucks. To sum up, VS's vehicle game is not good, maybe the worst among three factions but infantry weapons are acceptable, if not OP.
In Cobalt, all 3 factions win equally. Actually in prime time, we(VS) lose a lot lately. It probably depends on which faction's zergfits are online for coordinated strikes on that day. In general, VS has more veterans while other factions attract new players more. I don't know why that happens but it's there. That affects alert wins as well. But it's not like old days, nowadays we are getting pretty balanced win rates.
Emerald is another dimension, TR is nearly nonexistent there, only VS and NC fights. I created a TR character there to play at night time, but I have never seen TR win once so I gave up playing on Emerald. Maybe it has changed, it's been 1 year. That doesn't mean those two factions are OP, they are just more populated and coordinated on Emerald. They need to balance player population and skill somehow, maybe attract more skilled players to underpopulated factions by doing something, dunno.
The devs have put quite a lot of effort into reducing the effective range of vehicles since Combined Arms, notably by increasing projectile gravities and reducing muzzle velocities, leading to more drop and catapult-like shell trajectories. The Saron has stood immune to all these nerfs due to the VS no-drop feature and has additionally received buffs to CoF bloom specifically to increase its effectivness at range. There is no equivalent all-range secondary weapon for TR/NC, while the Vulcan/Mjolnir are quite effective at close range equipping this over the Halberd leaves the MBT vulnerable at long range encounters. To compensate for this the Saron should receive a damage nerf IMO.
Let's do the same bull$h1t and change/nerf:
1. Increase Titan AP shells drop and decrease its projectile speed
2. Add more 0.5 sec delay to Railjack
3. Nerf Gauss SAW raw damage from 200 to 167
4. Nerf Reaver's thrust 15%
5. remove/nerf NC's shotguns for Maxes
6. Increase Reaver's hitbox 10%
7. Remove Striker from the game
8. Remove Vulcan from the game
9. Decrease Mosquito's max speed
10. Remove Prowler's barrage
11. Remore TR's Repeater pistol
12. Remove exceptional implants
13. Make PS2 a Call of Duty.
The Titan AP does not have a greater share among NC tanks compared to the other factions equivalents. In other words, the ratio between the number of Supernova FPC users to the number of Supernova PC users, as well as P2-AP to P2-Heat users, is similar to the Titan AP to Titan Heat users ratio. Sure if there were any disrepancies in the statistics it could be discussed but so far your wishlist of nerfs come across as unjustified. Attach explanations plz.
When I say I think the Saron should be nerfed this is from a neutral balance perspective. The linked usage measurments show that players tend to use it more than the Halberd, which must mean that players consider it a viable alternative on the assumption that they select their loadouts to maximize combat effectivness. This is more than what can be said for the Enforcer or Gatekeeper. The likely reason is, as stated, that the Sarons no-drop mechanic has left it immune to the series of nerfs intended reduce vehicle weapon effectivness at range. Therefore it would only be fair if the Saron was nerfed to the point where the Halberd becomes the topgun of choice.
It pays for that accuracy in terms of lowered DPS. At close range, while magdumping, you pay for increased DPS with terrible accuracy. I gotta say it is quite generous to say you won't notice the worsened accuracy much. Besides, the VS Halberd performs better than the Saron.
It isn't a popularity contest though and further nerfing the Saron simply means the Halberd is an even better choice than it already is. I much prefer it if we figured out a way how to make all the other secondary weapons more attractive as it would be a damn shame to see everyone rolling about with Halberds because all their ES stuff not being worth it (for whatever reason).
The Saron is honestly just flat out better or at least preferable to the Enforcer in almost every situation. But then again, what isn't?
I think in this instance the Saron, while decent, probably doesn't need a nerf. It already does relatively low damage per shot so with the bloom at long range it's not doing to be dealing a huge amount of damage regardless of how much easier it is to land the hits with.
Vanu have been winning and winning alerts, now it has become overpopulated too
VS was good like years ago, now after years of nerfs what VS has better than for example TR? MBT, ESF, Weapons TR has all the best stuff.
I would give all VS stuff to you for a Banshee mosquito or a Prowler. They are the ultimate vehicles on the battlefield.
VS wins more because of coordinated player base not because of its faction specific perks. I would choose TR if TR had same coordinated player base of VS because their tools are really OP compared to VS. VS's real perk is skilled and coordinated playerbase while other factions attract new players more.
To balance the game, you have to force those veteran players into other factions and that's not happening unless they bring a faction transfer system. I don't have time to level another character to ASP just to play as TR.
Ok, spawning into a fight and hearing ppc/lasher spam is seriously triggering... does that count?
just play with sound off
Lancer is not even remotely close to being hitscan, it has a velocity of 450 and a huge damage drop off outside of 150m.
Using that word again.... No its not hitscan (Short of quickknife and explosion splash there are no hitscan weapons). As for directive only the LMG Assault and carb have heat mechanics. Sniper/scout/smg do not.
Majority? The only two Sniper rifles with no bullet drop are the Phaseshift and Spectre (and the spectre is more of scout). The Battle rifles, bullet drop or not wouldn't matter much in their effective range. Shotguns all have drop, the only exception to this was at launch. Where the Nova with slugs had no drop, however that was quickly nerfed.
I believe the default (without slugs) doesn't have any drop either
not that it really matters on a shotgun lol
Hmmm...so why are VS overpowered.....let me think on that question for a moment...well there is the fact that have some of the most accurate weapons, both in terms of hip-fire and ADS accuracy. Which makes them the most efficient faction to play on console where accuracy with most weapons' remains a problem due to crappy controllers instead of mouse and keyboard controls.
Then there was the consistent nerfs to all the TR LMGS and the HUGE nerfs to MAX suits and their abilities (which VS were never good with because ZOE is, and always has been crap) to allow VS MAXs to actually outgun even NC maxes at respectfully close distances.
Then there was the light PPA.
Then there was the huge addition of implants that added massive bonuses to movement speed and the addition of Ambusher jump jets. both of which favor light assaults with hip-fire focused weapons and generally focused on maneuver based combat. Of which VS have the best in category.
Then there is the mag rider. Which remains the only tank to be able to climb hills and mountains, has an emergency bug out button (mag burn) that allows it to escape infantry engagements and even some tank battles with ease, AND got a recent buff to its shell drop off so it can counter snipe TR tanks since it can now sidestep tank shells do to their hilariously slow velocity and bright as the sun tracers and return fire from ranges exceeding 2 miles.
Then there was the Canis with unstable munitions. (Which thankfully got nerfed)
Then there was also the daimios and Pandora. The best shotguns in the game, with the longest range and one shot kill potential. So much so it puts the NC shotguns to shame (The faction literally famous for their love of shotguns).
Then there's the lancer....basically an anti tank sniper rifle with velocity over 750, on par with most sniper rifles (heard a rumor that it got nerfed recently on velocity, still need to confirm though)
Then there's the Horizon. Which is basically both an assault rifle and a shotgun with no accuracy penalty to either.
Then there's the betleguase, which is the only directive LMG that actually has a useful ability (cooldown instead of ammo), and actually has stats as good as its predecessor (The Orion). Compared to the NC Godsaw, witch still retains worse accuracy then its predecessor (The Gauss SAW) and whose only purpose for its ability's is to annoy tanks and occasionally scare off aircraft stupid enough to mistake it for a G-30 Walker. Or the TR LMG, the butcher, which has no legendary effect at all.
Then there's the faction specific granade that ONLY the VS got.
Then there was the fact that (aside from the gladius) every other faction weapon added to TR and NC since the addition of the Canis, Gladius, and Jackal have had absolute garbage stats making them worse than what they already had. While only the VS got versions that were actually affective and useful.
Then there was the aphelion VE-10. Which is basically as better version of the Vulcan with longer range and a blast fire at the end of each burst that allows it to snipe infantry.
Then there was the fact that until only VARY recently. VS had the only sniper rifles without bullet drop.
Then there was the Lasher, which still remains the only truly affective heavy gun amongst all 3 factions. Mini chaingun is still too inaccurate for anything other than masses fire or point blank combat and Jackhammer is notorious for its 5-6 pellet per shot spread (cant remember if it was five pellets or six, either one is really bad in terms of damage.)
Then there was the addition of the Seron to flashes (A literal energy burst fire TANK CANNON on a four-wheeler)
I could go on for hours. really I could. But I think you guys get the point. I'm just glad that recently I saw some buffs to NC weapons to actually made them somewhat viable again, (accuracy buffs....go figure). It will be some time yet though before the devs can fully undue the massive unbalancing that Wrel caused. They're player base however, might not last that long. Haven't had a player count over on ps4 above 150 in the past week, and that's between all three factions. Most of the veteran players left earlier because they couldn't handle the favoritism anymore, or where forced to join the VS. This actually led to a lot of players with names like "Wrelsucks" and "Wrelgivesmegas" and a whole lot of other amusing childish insult names that where snuck by the name generators security.
Shortly after the other factions pops dried up, the VS veterans started to as well, with no one left to farm or flex on, most just left for other games. So there a lot of reason people don't like the VS, and call them overpowered. is it true? I wont say, because if I did. There be an entire army of fanboys here to protect them with counter arguments and memes to post all over the place. How do I know this? Because that's what happened to every other thread that ever dared to call them out before now. Likely its only being done these days because most of the fanboys already left when the battles dried up.
As insulting as the tone is. The complaint is actually pretty accurate. The changes to planetside over the past year have coincided with call of duty's ever present efforts to pursue the mythical "Faster Paced Gameplay" mentality which developers still follow like sheep as though it where the promised land of endless gamers. even as title after title dries up and dies from it.
The implants, the ambusher jump jets, the modular weapons with mostly faster fire rates and better hip-fire. The Vehicle and MAX nerfs. They all coincide with making the game faster paced and more infantry focused, and planetside arena proved that the devs where ready and poised to ape both call of duty and fortnight by jumping on the battle royal bandwagon.
It might help if they spent less time drawing up new cosmetics for microtransactions and actually checked the games balence. As well as actively played ALL THREE FACTIONS regularly. But the removal of the anti-cheat software a fiew updates back shows just how little they know or care what is both wanted and needed in their game, and what devs are still focusing the game have openly displayed faction favoritism (you all know who I'm talking about...)
Ultimately the VS being overpowered could be attributed to the devs constant efforts to make the game more fast paced. By nerfing all of the things that slow down the flow of battle and adding or buffing options for infantry and CQC combat. Of which the VS happen to be completely geared towards. It should be no surprise that the VS are overpowered being that they are the literally playstyle the devs are building the game around. But faster paced gameplay was never what made planetside 2 popular. It was the wide scale total war. Vehicles, aircraft, MAX's zerg rushes and desperate defenses. All gone now in favor of smaller squad skirmishes. This is only enforced by the introduction of the incredibly cheap orbital strikes that are now essentially Zerg-Be-Gone.
If that were true, then the VS would have a higher average performance with all common pool weapons that are purely common pool (so not a Halberd on the Faction-Specific Magrider). Like Lightning guns, NS small-arms, carbon-copy weapons like most snipers and shotguns, Sunderer topguns etc.
What do we see? The VS does not outperform the other two on most weapons. Yet when we go look at the equivalents of their faction-specific equipment suddenly they score significantly better.
It is statistically more likely to win the lottery 6 times in a row than that across all these players on different servers and continents, the VS scores only better with their FS equipment and not with common pool weapons despite it being the skill of the VS players that makes them better with the FS equipment.
Occams razor, which is more likely:
VS is more skilled than everyone else, but somehow only with their FS equipment. The same equipment people complain about.
The VS FS equipment is superior to the TR and NC equipment, which we can see in how the VS scores just about equal to the TR and VS when using common pool.
You chose the first one, probably using something like "when I'm in a squad/platoon the VS is just way more coordinated!". Unfortunately when I'm personally playing the VS they seem to be even less coordinated, if not specifically anti-coordination. Because that's the problem: You are using subjectivity to justify yourself. Neither of us can prove our point using "but I've seen it so it's true!". So we try to find ways to quantify it: Performance stats. These performance stats show the VS being superior with FS equipment, not with common pool. Try again, which option of occams razor do you pick? Can you leave your faction bias at the door?
I just want an explanation as to why the ESF hornets function differently (and way EASIER) on the VS aircraft only. The other 2 launch from the way outside edge of the wing, the VS is pinpoint dead center and easier to hit things with. An NS weapon giving deVS faction an advantage
Has been discussed at length earlier in the thread, if you have something to contribute it would behoove you to bring more to the table than a one sentence blanket statement.
Absolutely, 100% false. ZOE used to be broken on a stick.
You will show numbers to prove this, yes? I haven't checked myself, so you may be correct, but given some of the claims you've made already I see absolutely no reason to take anything you say at face value
It is considered common courtesy to read the contents of a thread one comments on so as to avoid rehashing what has already been discussed.
As you said, it was immediately nerfed, making it's inclusion in your list of reasons for the VS being overpowered an...oddity, to say the least.
The Deimos and the Pandora have exactly the same damage statistics as their NC/TR equivalents. If you're talking about slugs the VS have had bullet drop on those literally for years.
Making definitive statements knowing you don't have all the information is not exactly the mark of a sound argument.
...Which if you had read the patch notes when this came out you would take note of the fact that it is a cosmetic difference only.
The Kindred and the Vanquisher both exist. Your argument is invalid.
Really, really interested to hear the explanation for this.
1. The VS have never not had the only snipers without bullet drop.
2. With a single exception, this applies only to the Semi-Auto variants that cannot OHK with a headshot.
3. That exception has the slowest bullet velocity out of all the OHK-capable rifles.
Any legitimate grievances you might have in that post were absolutely buried under a mountain of exaggeration, disingenuousness and outright fabrication to the point where I'm not entirely sure if you are doing it to be ironic or not.
Separate names with a comma.