"VS OP" Why?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Vanguard540, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Vanguard540

    Why do you thin VS is "OP", explain why.
  2. ican'taim

    Asymmetrical balance. People will always think that one faction is OP, regardless of balance changes.
    • Up x 4
  3. Liewec123

    is your forum search function not working?
    we've been over it a million times,
    Demigan has given pages upon pages of stat and performance comparisons.

    but short answer to why VS is OP is:
    "this guy right here".
    ↓↓↓

    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  4. Vanguard540

    Can you read? I'm asking why. You answer it is.
  5. ObiVanuKenobi

    I don't think any faction is OP right now. All the fun faction specific toys have been nerfsided.
    • Up x 2
  6. DarkStarAnubis

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

    Something becomes true just by repeating it over and over like a Dervish Mantra and finding enough people willing to believe it because it confirms their own belief. We human beings like to seek confirmation we are right.

    See also: "Prove me wrong then!" aka "Everybody who knows PS2 in and out knows that VS are OP! Do you believe the VS are not OP? What's wrong with you? Prove me wrong if you dare! Prove that VS are not OP!"
    • Up x 5
  7. LordKrelas

    VS has access to a lot of un-conventional mechanics, that can be used to great effect;

    • Lashers are AOE weaponry, allowing them to suppress doorways and deny enemy cover.
    • Lancers are Render-Range AV, allowing them Pin-Point AV Damage that can not be dodged, as it's basically hitscan at render-range, that can nail aircraft or tanks.
    • Phaseshift is an Infinite-ammo Multi-fire-mode Sniper rifle without Bullet-drop, that is hitscan at shorter ranges.
    • Directive Weaponry for VS is supplied with Infinite-Ammo Mechanics via the Heat system - This allows near indefinite suppression.
    • VS has gained Ammunition for Several new weapons, and Old MAX Weapons that cause targets to have an enlarged hitbox.
    • VS has quieter weaponry & Knives, blending in - With all but the Majority of Sniper rifles & shotguns having no drop. (Shotgun has drop)
    • VS Vehicle Weaponry Include Starfall; An Anti-MBT Flash Weapon
    • VS's Selection of New weaponry, from the new LMGs, Battlerifles, Carbines, SMGs, have yielded numerous Best-of-Bunch VS guns: the BattleRifles is a perfect example with the Obelisk, an Infinite-ammo 3-shot kill, with no drop.

    These kind of mechanics, don't actually have an equal in TR or NC Hands.
    NC's sniper is not nearly as practical as VS's, and TR can barely call theirs a sniper.
    TR's Directive Perks are dead, NC has just 1, and VS cloned it a month after NC got it: And it didn't compare to infinite ammo.
    Of the new Releases, only VS gained new Mechanics on old Weapons like their MAXes, while also winning multiple releases.
    NC's elusive Launcher, in comparison requires invulnerability, to even fire twice - and is out-repped by a grenade.
    TR's eclusive Launcher, is a premier anti-air weapon for infantry - But it doesn't work on every target known to mankind.

    That's not touching anything Comparable between TR, NC, and VS.
    That's just the VS Exclusives.

    NC has some, TR has some, when it comes to why people think they're OP.
    But comically, VS has the most actual special mechanics, to list, and most have nothing in any direction on the other two.
    No one else, can remove the entire notion to reload their guns, have hitscan shots, or enlarge enemy hitboxes.

    Are they OP as a Whole? Likely not.
    Are they supplied with a tactical advantage: yes.
    They have the most actual options in this game, TR & NC are closer related, than VS is to both at once.
    • Up x 2
  8. Demigan

    They have the best starter weapons for newbs and the average player, giving them a huge leg-up in general combat as they win more momentary fights overall.

    The Magrider is the best MBT. It gets pulled the same amount of times per player as the other two factions but has the unique ability of attracting gunners that other VS vehicles do not have in any capacity, meaning that the gunseat is more effective due to the platform its based on, visible in how this is the only exception where the VS get superior stats with an NS weapons. This in turn makes the Magrider a more lethal tank. This is comparable to having a good starter weapon. In theory everyone can just buy a similar weapon to rival the VS but in practice this just doesnt happen. So the NC and TR require more teamwork and coordination to get the samr mileage out of their MBT's.
    Additionally the Magrider's center body is about as big as the other two tanks, but almost immediately loses 50% of that off-center to 1/3rd hitbox size on the edges. Combined with strafing you effectively make enemies shoot at half to 1/3rd of the total hitbox, and that's ignoring the ability to simply dodge shots altogether because people dont stick to the center of your Magrider picture perfectly (if only because it means trying to hit the Magrider's edge that's so small). Anyway those are just the reasons for the Magrider, and it simply performs better than the other two overall.

    The Scythe is a btch to hit. Even the legendary donut shape when looking from below isnt as big as people make it out to be, for a large part because there's simply gaps where shots can pass through. But lets not forget the incredibly tiny front.

    So thats why I know for a fact the VS are superior.
    • Up x 5
  9. YellowJacketXV

    I always thought it was because of the lack of bullet drop and in the past it was their copious levels of splash damage. Now I just think they're OP because all the outfits are there.

    As a long time TR main, I always have more of a ***** of a time fighting VS than NC. However, imho, on my NC alt I think they have the strongest infantry weapons hands. down. Nothing will ever best three-tap to the head from a gladius or AC-X11. Its asinine if you can aim.
    • Up x 1
  10. Vanguard540

    1. Thumper is here now, NC and TR can both use it. But the NS jackhammer/MCG equivalent isn't there yet. Both thumper and Lasher are bad 1V1 tools that shine at point holds.
    2. Lancer requires line of sight snipers will easily boop your head while you're ADSing, Phoenix can be used from spawnroom.
    LANCER AE

    [IMG]
    The Lancer AE's particle accelerator is capable of firing a focused, high-velocity anti-armor projectile with pinpoint accuracy. The weapon has three charge-levels which increases ...
    087.5175262.5350050100150
    TYPE

    Rocket Launcher
    FIRE RATE

    120 RPM (0.5 s)
    DAMAGE

    100 / 150m / 50 / 300m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    450 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    4 sec / 4 sec
    AMMUNITION

    9 / 36
    HIP ACCURACY

    5 / 5 / 5 / 5 / 0.5
    AIM ACCURACY

    0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0.5
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1.35x
    FIRE MODES
    Charge

    PHOENIX AE

    [IMG]
    The powerful Phoenix AE uses a camera guided missile that allows the user to adjust its trajectory mid-flight. NC use only.
    0255075100875
    TYPE

    Rocket Launcher
    FIRE RATE

    200 RPM (0.3 s)
    DAMAGE

    875
    INDIRECT DAMAGE

    75 / 0.35m / 25 / 4m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    42 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    3.43 sec / 3.43 sec
    AMMUNITION

    1 / 12
    HIP ACCURACY

    5 / 5 / 5 / 5 / 2
    AIM ACCURACY

    0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 2
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1.35x
    FIRE MODES

    Lock-on /

    Hitscan very very le yes. 450 m/sec. Even the phaseshift has higher muzzle speed.

    3. Phaseshift :

    PHASESHIFT VX-S

    [IMG]
    Equipped with an experimental regenerating power core, the Phaseshift VX-S has no use for traditional ammunition, and can switch between semi-auto and bolt-action firing modes to f...
    0255075100300350400450
    TYPE

    Sniper Rifle
    FIRE RATE

    184 RPM (0.326 s)
    DAMAGE

    400 / 10m / 334 / 85m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    550 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    4.5 sec / 3 sec
    AMMUNITION

    0 / 0
    HIP ACCURACY

    5.5 / 6 / 6 / 6.5 / 0.8
    AIM ACCURACY

    0 / 0.2 / 0 / 0.55 / 0.8
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    6x
    FIRE MODES

    Semi-Auto

    550 m/sec Ammo printer + parallax any day.
  11. Vanguard540

    4. Betelgeuse : 49 shots and you overheat. 4HS to kill. Naginata 4HS to kill, 90 or 135 per mag, but COF heals up. Suppression is required in point holds or at the exit of choke points, which are filled with ammo boxes. Ammo printer can give you a fair amount of bullets with it. So I'd say once again NS provides an even better suppression tool. Naginata doesn't require aurax, and is even given with codes to redeem.

    Darkstar : 32 shots to overheat, 3.2 seconds to cooldown. I wouldn't use it to suppress. It's a cool run and gun weapon but not a suppressing tool.

    5. I'd really like to see data behind this. I googled it but couldn't find anything. However if this is true, this needs to be fixed.

    6. Powerknives are worth using if you quickly when the surroundings are noisy, even for VS. VS powerknife activation/deactivation is quite noisy though. VS stalker for instance relies on powerknife or on NS weaponry, as our sidearms are workable but not as competitive as TR or NC right away. I almost became a TR main as the starting pistol is awesome.

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/vanu-now-has-bullet-drop.229366/

    I am no MLG pro, but I wouldn't use a shotgun at ranges drop starts to be noticed. I'd go for CQC BASR, and the 3 faction specific are the same.

    I haven't unlocked silent Sniper rifles nor shotguns yet. And other factions do have quiet weaponry.
  12. Vanguard540

    7. And was rightfully nerfed, but today I'd use the fury over the starfall any day as it performs the same but is more forgiving.

    V30-F STARFALL

    [IMG]
    The Starfall fires a quick 3 round plasma barrage, meant to strike at unsuspecting vehicles with lighting speed. VS use only.
    0255075100175
    TYPE

    Flash Primary Weapon
    FIRE RATE

    150 RPM (0.4 s)
    DAMAGE

    175
    INDIRECT DAMAGE

    100 / 0.5m / 25 / 2m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    100 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    3 sec / 3 sec
    AMMUNITION

    6 / 54
    HIP ACCURACY

    0 / 0 / 0.5 / 0 / 0
    AIM ACCURACY

    0 / 0 / 0.5 / 0 / 0
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1x
    FIRE MODES

    3x Burst

    M40 FURY-F

    [IMG]
    The Fury launches 40mm grenades that are effective against infantry and light armor. It is also capable of light damage against heavy armor. All factions can use this weapon.
    0255075100175
    TYPE

    Flash Primary Weapon
    FIRE RATE

    171 RPM (0.35 s)
    DAMAGE

    175
    INDIRECT DAMAGE

    200 / 1m / 50 / 3m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    125 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    2.5 sec / 2.5 sec
    AMMUNITION

    8 / 48
    HIP ACCURACY

    0 / 0 / 0.5 / 0 / 0
    AIM ACCURACY

    0 / 0 / 0.5 / 0 / 0
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1x
    FIRE MODES

    Auto
  13. Vanguard540

    8. Which ones? Maw? Damage profile and stats inspired from NC. SMGs?

    BLITZ GD-10

    [IMG]
    Equipped with a built-in extended magazine, the Blitz GD-10's increased ammo capacity enables it to put down multiple targets between reloads. NC use only.
    025507510010015050
    TYPE

    SMG
    FIRE RATE

    845 RPM (0.071 s)
    DAMAGE

    125 / 6m / 84 / 42m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    375 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    3.5 sec / 2.5 sec
    AMMUNITION

    50 / 250
    HIP ACCURACY

    1 / 1.25 / 1 / 1.5 / 0.05
    AIM ACCURACY

    0.3 / 0.3 / 0.3 / 0.3 / 0.05
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1.35x
    FIRE MODES

    Auto

    SIRIUS SX12

    [IMG]
    An energy efficient power core interface allows the Sirius SX12 to take out multiple targets before needing to reload. VS use only.
    025507510010015050
    TYPE

    SMG
    FIRE RATE

    845 RPM (0.071 s)
    DAMAGE

    125 / 6m / 84 / 42m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    375 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    3.4 sec / 2.4 sec
    AMMUNITION

    50 / 250
    HIP ACCURACY

    1 / 1.25 / 1 / 1.5 / 0.05
    AIM ACCURACY

    0.3 / 0.3 / 0.3 / 0.3 / 0.05
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1.35x
    FIRE MODES

    Auto

    We do have a 0.1 shorter reload speed according to FISU. But I think TR should be the one complaining let me show you the failstorm :

    PDW-16 HAILSTORM

    [IMG]
    Equipped with an extended magazine, the Hailstorm's generous ammo capacity has saved many soldiers who would've been caught reloading without it. TR use only.
    025507510010015050
    TYPE

    SMG
    FIRE RATE

    800 RPM (0.075 s)
    DAMAGE

    125 / 6m / 84 / 42m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    375 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    2.8 sec / 2.25 sec
    AMMUNITION

    60 / 240
    HIP ACCURACY

    1 / 1.25 / 1 / 1.5 / 0.05
    AIM ACCURACY

    0.3 / 0.3 / 0.3 / 0.3 / 0.05
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1.35x
    FIRE MODES

    Auto

    Best of bunch? Gladius.

    MGR-S1 GLADIUS

    [IMG]
    Originally reserved for members of Nomad, the Gladius is the hardest hitting SMG ever designed. NC use only.
    0255075100100200300
    TYPE

    SMG
    FIRE RATE

    522 RPM (0.115 s)
    DAMAGE

    200 / 6m / 112 / 50m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    375 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    3 sec / 2 sec
    AMMUNITION

    26 / 182
    HIP ACCURACY

    1.25 / 1.5 / 1.25 / 1.75 / 0.07
    AIM ACCURACY

    0.35 / 0.35 / 0.35 / 0.35 / 0.07
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1.35x
    FIRE MODES

    Auto

    NS equivalent?
    NSX TENGU

    [IMG]
    The playful Tengu SMG scatters four pellets per shot, and narrows its pellet spread while aiming down sights. All factions can use NS weapons.
    025507510030405060
    TYPE

    SMG
    FIRE RATE

    500 RPM (0.12 s)
    DAMAGE

    50 / 6m / 36 / 40m
    MUZZLE VELOCITY

    300 m/sec
    RELOAD SPEED

    2.5 sec / 1.875 sec
    AMMUNITION

    22 / 176
    PELLET COUNT

    4 / 3
    HIP ACCURACY

    1.75 / 1.75 / 1.75 / 2 / 0.07
    AIM ACCURACY

    0.15 / 0.17 / 0.15 / 0.32 / 0.07
    IRON SIGHT ZOOM

    1.35x
    FIRE MODES

    Auto

    Only SMG with 200 damage profile which you don't get to play if you're not NC. Less accurate and penalized by pellets spread.
    Obelisk is good... for a battle riffle. But if you're accurate you take a CQC BASR over it any day. 2HS required to kill, Sniper : 1HS.
    VS doesn't get the splash damage nor the piercing effect. Sorry about the 20 000 character limit.
    • Up x 1
  14. LordKrelas

    49 Shots, if you don't stop firing - And you can avoid reloading for all eternity, with proper burst control.
    If you also attempt to switch weapons, you skip the cooldown; Everyone else, like with a Gauss Saw, must reload eventually.
    These VS weapons do not.

    If you're not burst-firing, I question a lot, since most of these are best used with burst-control, let alone when it extends the magazine to infinity; Do that with a TR gun, unlike VS it doesn't matter if you waited 1 second after that 30 shot barrage, you are the exact same amount of rounds from a reload, If you're a VS, you now have more shots to fire before reload - Infinitum.

    VS Max, Gained unstable ammunition, which is designed to expand the "projectiles" essentially making everyone you shoot have a larger effective hitbox; Welcome to the new VS tool, and why the Canis lost Headshot multiplier.


    Listen to a TR Chainblade.
    Legit listen to one.

    I stated the weapons that have BD, are Shotguns and all but 2 Snipers.
    Orion has never gained BD, nor has Phaseshift, or the Ghost, or any other weapon.
    Prior to a change, Shotguns were affected with Pellets , which was broken as hell - Modern VS weapons as stated have no bulletdrop.


    NC's guns, are cracks-at-dawn loud.
    TR Guns are loud as hell.
    VS is soft PEW PEW.

    Thumper, is a Grenade-launcher.
    Lasher is a Heavy-Assault Heavy-Weapon, without bullet-drop - It also took years for the Thumper to even exist.

    Lancer required LOS, yeah, so does every non-arcing weapon, and when you have full LOS-Range Hitscan AV weapon,
    It does some severe things, to the Massive sized vehicle targets; Only VS Tanks can strafe, which allows them to doge rockets.
    Guess who has the Laser-AV? VS.
    Also: There is nothing preventing usage of the Lancer from Spawn.
    Phoenix however, yeah as mentioned needed a spawnroom; As user is immobile & standing for the lovely 270 meter max range.
    Lancer is able to near run & shoot while dodging over hill-tops.

    Starfall, was a 2-burst Front-armor MBT killer, on a cloaking flash.
    Released with NC's hilarious Anti-infantry mortar with a short-range & ARMING-RANGE Limiter, while TR got a flamethrower that was melee and nearly killed the Flash.
    Mean while, VS was half-healthing MBTs in single-bursts - That gives VS , the visual of being ******** quite quick.

    The New weapon Releases, are not the sirus.
    The Doku Releases; Obelisk, Maw, Canis, etc.

    VS won Battlerifles hands-down, VS originally won the SMGs with the Canis - while TR had a confused SMG.
    LMGs was a even-draw at parts, NC gained a barely-used VS Gun, VS gained the NC Anchor Flagship with extra perks.
    TR actually gained a new gun entirely for LMGs.
    Carbines? NC Lost hard.
    200 Damage Model, on an SMG with no Hip-fire - Or never miss a shot.
    TR & NC Battlerifles, can't compete with Obelisk at all - So what do you think they Feel: an infinite ammo 3 shot kill, that never deals with drop, and has upgrades for hipfire, vs "Something that rarely is helpful (pierce)" on a rifle that costs half your ****, or Splash-Damage.

    Vehicle PTS? NC was forgotten for half of it, for new tech.
    TR was promised one murderous buff , and VS was promised Mobility Buffs - and Once NC finally was remembered, it was given a Joke: Once PTS ended, TR was switched with a near full negative, while VS Gained all their PTS promises.
    Weaponry? NC's supposed Gun will be bested by every NS weapon.
    TR is a better Gatekeeper\Vulcan Hybrid.
    VS is a brutal AV charge-shot, that can kill Engineers hiding behind their tank.
    VS did not have many if near any bad Releases for their new gear.

    VS is also on the literal top of wins: While having the lowest population.
    VS MAXes are being buffed, as VS gets new Toys, While NC & TR are not: Instead NC just lost their MAX AI.
    • Up x 1
  15. Vanguard540

    First thanks for your answer, as it is detailed and constructive. On the other hand we've got the Liewec123 kind of answer that doesn't help in any way.

    About the Betelgeuse and Darkstar and the burstfiring. If the push you're facing is mild, burstfiring is definitely the way to go you're goddamn right. But pointholds during alert time, you'll get flying fairies and HA rushing in at the same time after a couple flash and concussion grenades. You really need to shoot as much as possible, that's why I think the Naginata does that better, it even allows you to spray while blind and maintain a decent COF. But I can't deny Betelgeuse is a great farming tool during soft pushes in biolabs.

    I only have 1% gameplay time as a MAX, I've recently been trying the double Nebula Zoe as I was told by Liewec previously it was overpowered. The burst damage close up is good, but I last longer with the disengage/emergency repair combo. And I see no UA effect from these weapons. And I've been using the canis quite a lot since it got nerfed. Maybe it's just the Nebula but from these, the bullets feel like regular bullets. UA or not, Nebula is good below 25m and quickly becomes uneffective at longer ranges as the hit per shot ratio quickly decreases. It feels balanced to me. Maybe it's not, again I'm not a MAX dedicated player.

    BTW it's a good thing Canis HS multiplier isn't as strong when using UA. Players have to dive into skillcap weaponry and HS ratio if they want to be competitive. At typical SMG range, using UA is a crime anyway. The skill required to hit the head at 15 meters doesn't justify UA, train a bit and keep your damage potential. A day or two of training and you gave yourself a favor. That's why I really don't get the Canis UA complains nowadays. Back then yes, nowadays... No. If you're complaining you're not being 100% honest. And I've had the UA discussion many times. I bet people complaining about it didn't try UA. It's a cool tool if you're learning CQC, but not a gamebreaking feature. And since we're talking about SMGs both TR and VS need 167 and 200 dmg profiles. If every faction can get high ROF, every faction should get high dmg profiles too.

    It is hard to give the UA feeling to every faction though NS, Tengu is a try in both high dmg profile and UA. But like UA it is underperforming. Sadly there is no slug ammo option given to the Tengu.

    "Listen to a chainblade"

    Winner : NC no doubts about it.

    Orion doesn't have bullet drop, does it make it effective at longer ranges where BD starts to matter?
    NC6 Gauss saw however : from 200 to 167 dmg 85m. 3HS any range.
    Orion : from 143 to 112 dmg 65m. 5HS or 4HS+1BS or 42m for a 4HS and you don't go full auto at this range.
    Winner is NC once again, TR gets an Orion clone with double magsize but longer reload AND the bullet drop.

    So I don't think VS is the overpowered one here, nor is TR about base LMGs.

    Audio :

    NC snipe sound :
    VS snipe sound :
    TR snipe sound :

    Hehe boi.

    About the lancer.
    Any MBT in LOS from spawn room should reconsider its position anyway. Lancer or not, it will be demolished. And demolished even quicker with a higher damage launcher.

    Starfall, once again good thing it got nerfed. No doubt about it.

    Obelisk : Any scout rifle is also a double HS, vandal gives .75 ads speed which is more interesting than ammo.
    Maw and Canis have damage profiles and fire rates based on NC. They're both close to mid range weapons.

    What are the extra perks gained on the Maw?

    Best carbines are TR imo, and it isn't broken.

    SMG 200 damage profile with no hipfire or never miss a shot.


    Higher ROF weapons get quicker hipfire spread. High ROF a more forgiving but there is a bigger skillcap in high damage profile.
    It's definitely a weapon worth puting some time in.

    I'm not a huge fan of vehicles, I only truly care about flash. But what synergizes the most with repair sunderers in convoys is health pool or DPS. Boosting away from repair sunderers is taking risks, harassers do that better.

    No bad weapon for VS? Horizon is another UA with a different taste. Another good learning weapon.
    Clientside and shotguns do really well in this game, add healthpool and 40m range on older NC max variant and you had the best max hands down. But once again I think Maxes shouldn't hold DPS and Burst damage roles. It's just an indoor AI harasser. And it makes no sense to me.
  16. LordKrelas

    Try that with an NC or TR Gun, you end up reloading & dead - as in the smaller cases, your gunfire is never going to avoid a reload, and in larger-fights, you are also going into a forced-reload, with a constant depletion of ammo acting like a timer.
    With the mentioned Burst-fire, you can use that basically infinite-ammo as VS, while having equal results if the fight forces the full depletion, so in lighter fights, or with any pause, you are never exposed without a primary weapon - while if you did actually need the full mag, your 'reload' can also be skipped by a weapon-switch for not even half a second.

    As well, Once an NC or TR switches to their Pistol, they still must reload their primary.
    This means, say with a Gauss-Saw, that NC is unarmed for 5 seconds, reloading it, from dry - and if they used their pistol, they also must reload that, or be down bullets when they next draw.
    A VS, has a fully loaded-pistol on draw, and never needs to hold it & reload it, if they have the directive-pistol, as well, they never actually need to hold their depleted Primary weapon, during a reload, they can switch to pistol, and that weapon will reload itself, while the VS is never exposed without a weapon -- That's a tactical luxury, of never being disarmed, as your Primary is always at full ammo when you holster it, and you never need to reload the sidearm.

    Now, for long extended combat: A VS engineer's ammo pack is entirely pointless, past AV shots.
    While TR & NC, all have moments of being unarmed reloading weapons, and a limited supply of ammo - VS does not suffer from either ammo depletion, or exposure of being unarmed at all.

    As for the Naginata, you actually have to reload that weapon if you deplete the entire magazine, leaving you unarmed.
    It also will deplete your reserves, in a long fight unless you died, or had an Engineer.
    Tactically, a VS push, does not need any engineers to supply them for extended engagements, and is never unarmed.
    With essentially no down-time without a weapon, that VS front can push constantly, or hold a front indefinitely with even a force entirely composed of Heavy-Assaults or Light-Assaults, needing no supplies of any kind.
    A VS Sniper 300 meters from allies, can fire near 24\7 without support or reload delays.
    An NC or TR Sniper, requires ammunition, and will be delayed by Reloads, that are unavoidable: It adds up.

    Not exactly OP, but it's also one of the most tactical advantages to have consistently granted across your weapon options.
    Nothing TR or NC have, can match the tactical advantage, of never needing ammunition, and being able to constantly fire.


    UA's effect, quite literally is to make a more accurate VS MAX weapon, land more hits.
    It is however, on not their Top AI weapon -- and it has power in closer & medium ranges, where you basically reduce any odds of missing pretty damn nicely , let alone indoors.

    Canis originally had the full HS Multiplier with the UA, which is why it lost it: and the gun was lack-luster without the ********.
    As the head was 2 meters further away from the actual head, if you fired a Canis round, a decent shot, basically negated evasion, while being to strafe themselves.
    This ammunition is being literally slowly applied to Old VS weapons, and new VS weapons, making the Traditionally accurate VS weaponry, able to even more easily negate strafing, or being a **** shot - TR & NC, do not have anything close to this, to even try to make their crappy-shots easier to land, empowering lower-skill players to Kill their rival low-skill players easier.

    TR's High DPS, has traditionally done wonders for them.
    NC has only 1 thing going for them, and that has been their Damage profiles - and it usually only is barely a fraction of a second, to be able to actually take advantage of it, with a head-shot.
    NC's SMG power, hasn't exactly helped them.

    It makes it easier to fire, less things to track, and means even spraying at range, is easier to land - it is a CQC LMG.
    Gauss-Saw, is not an easy shot, and only the first round is accurate; Add in, you need 3 Perfect headshots chained, while it is a Long-range Focused LMG, with a ton of requirements to land that shot.
    Difficulty of landing a target is a thing; Or we'd say TR's Sheer DPS advantage would win at all ranges, when it doesn't.
    The TR typical DPS, is only achieved at shorter ranges - this is why the Burst-pistol is damn good.

    Aka: Try to use the Gauss Saw, and not "Well if you're a dead perfect shot, it's a 3-shot perfect chained headshot kill."
    As we might as well go "Every bullet fired can never miss", if we're going based on solely damage-per-bullet.
    As that RPM, is a trap, if you ever not so strictly control the Saw's Fire, and not even get close to the 500 RPM, it will not hit a barn.

    Lancer can do this from a mountain-top, with the Heavy-Assault constantly moving, and strike even an ESF in full burn.
    You mentioned the Phoenix from spawn; That means a Tank within 270 meters of a spawn-room, that also can't pistol-shoot the Very bright very loud Phoenix missile: Lancer also deals more damage.

    VS's perception of being OP, is caused by releases like that thing.
    It was released like that, Canis was released like that - Why is it common for a new VS toy to be not properly configured.


    Obelisk, compared to the other 2 Battle-rifles, is an Infinite-ammo 3-shot kill.
    It's not intended to be compared to bolt-action Sniper rifles - And even then, Only VS has the Obelisk which won out among the battle-rifles.
    Canis is based closer to TR, as it's a spin-up.
    MAW, is the Anchor, with more ammunition in the clip, and UV as an option - and I think even the quick-reload option.
    Add in VS no-bullet-drop, and the VS clone of the Anchor, basically an Anchor that can fire more of the high damage shots.

    You asked for why people call them OP.
    There is no point, in listing the limited number of VS weapons, that are garbage - as they're often in the same boat as their counterparts when we get there, as every side has a **** gun somewhere.

    Shotguns, are very specific animals.
    NC's AI MAX, at Prime, requires a location that limits the distance from their opponent, and requires them to already be there.
    An NC MAX does not have a 40m range, even with Slugs, that is not even close to a viable notion, as well, That requires the MAX to only have 1 of the shotguns available - You don't see TR & VS only use 1 single gun.
    Not to mention, Once that NC MAX was not, in close-quarters, and that's 20 meters, it is unarmed basically.
    Most weapons had 4-6 Shots at best, we're talking RNGESUS Shotgun pellet-spread - Entering a small room, this isn't as much as an issue - moment it isn't a small-room, or even a typical staircase, now the shotgun is missing absurdly.

    Add in the long reloads, and the very short sustain, and that's easily suicide.
    The only NC MAX for AI, that was Noticed, is one already in position where the range problems are negated.
    The rest, are basically massacred - Now during the release of the new options for VS, NC, and TR,
    VS has the above mentioned Tools, including upgrades to their AI Maxes.
    NC's is stuck with a brutally-mauled shotgun that has no range, no sustain, no alpha advantage, no DPS advantage, and lacks reload speed -- This means, any NC facing a VS MAX or an TR MAX, let alone while as a MAX, will feel that their opponent is OP.
    As the NC MAX, is not built for Range, and is also now not built for Alpha-Damage, to make up for the mass amount of damage it takes, getting in range - making their Opponents feel stronger, than they actually are.

    The same, is easily done, if you stick a newbie Gauss-Saw into CQC, against a newbie CARV or a newbie Orion,
    As that Gauss Saw, ain't built for it - which gives them the impression, that the enemy gun is OP.
    Stick an Beetle into that, which a lot of VS typically have one, more than NC has God-Saws or TR has Butchers,
    and that opinion will grew a lot: as among Aux weapons, Beetles are more common. Doesn't make it actually OP, however.

    And for Vehicles; VS's Magrider is an infantry killer, by ability to reach them more often than the others.
    This pushes VS's Rapid little tank, with brutally decent AI abilities, more often into range of squishy infantry.
    If your opponent's infantry are being nailed by a tank, that no one can replicate, while they can hit any tank in the reverse position, Perception starts up.
    Tactical Advantages, are often felt on the macro & micro.
    And VS has a lot of them.
    • Up x 1
  17. BrbImAFK

    Despite all the "explanations" offered, the simple fact is that anybody claiming that the VS faction is "OP" as a whole suffers from a fundamental misunderstanding of the game mechanics.

    For example, one of the often quoted examples of VS's OPness is the no-bullet-drop mechanic. However, I've actually gone and tested it here. NONE of the weapons, in any empire, have meaningful bullet-drop at the ranges those weapons are meant to operate. As such, VS getting "official" no-bullet-drop is irrelevant, 'cause everybody effectively has it.

    However, as a result of having no bullet-drop, VS weapons invariably sacrifice something else e.g. RoF, damage, accuracy, recoil or whatever. Because no-bullet-drop gives no benefit compared to the other empires, but provides a disadvantage through the sacrifice to "pay" for the no-bullet-drop, it is in fact a penalty on VS weapons, not an advantage. But try explaining that to the VS-OPer's. They're just as resistant to facts and logic as Trumpists, Brexiteers and paranoid schizophrenics.

    For another example, I sat down and compared all the LMG's (a goodly while back, so things have probably changed a bit since then) here. I'm not gonna summarise it here, because it's a *massive* amount of info. What it comes down to is that the LMG's are actually pretty well balanced. My only major complaint was that the TR/NC arsenals got some nice variation, resulting in weapons that felt different to use, while all the VS weapons were extremely same-y. But, once again, facts and logic will be completely ignored in favour of whatever somebody *feels* is true.

    So yeah. I'm not gonna say that there's nothing in the game that isn't UP/OP/busted etc. But to claim that whole factions are UP/OP is ******** and indicates a lack of critical thinking or mental capacity or something.
    • Up x 2
  18. pnkdth


    The first reply by The Rogue Wolf to your no bullet drop test still holds true to this day, "The people who need to listen to things like this won't. They're too busy believing that VS weapons also have zero recoil." Judging by the giant pile of ignorance/misinformation in this thread you just have to realise you cannot trust single individual's perception since they've spent so long in their echo chamber they actually supplanted what is with what they believe is true.

    For example, no one who claim VS is superior here even dares to admit that VS and TR have performed similarly ever since alerts where put into place. It really is quite strange behaviour to see one faction single out VS as the bogeyman despite it has always been the NC which has fared the worst. Easier to try and bring others down than to be a positive force in improving the game, I suppose.

    LMGs is another interesting aspect of VS since most 143 weapons are 652/698RPM with only the Orion (and later the BG) with 143/750. For the longest time there really were no other option than the Orion which you could take seriously (though some favoured the SVA). With the changes to ADS mods and such I'd argue that the Orion is the definitive LMG to use, it is then no small wonder so many gravitate towards the BG. Personally, I do enjoy the 143/698 model but I'm not arrogant enough to claim my preference as the norm. The MAW has been an interesting addition but its wonky accuracy makes it inferior to the Anchor (not in every situation).
    • Up x 2
  19. JibbaJabba

    EM6 with mags is a better Betelgeuse.

    Quit cryin'
    • Up x 2
  20. Vanguard540

    "I was an NC soldier like you, then my own BD shot me in the knee"

Share This Page