VS on miller, Underpoped and supernerfed.

You do realize the game itself is the same, or should be.
And quite literally, if with less people VS can compete with greater numbers of opponents of equal or greater skill..
You are not underpowered.
Since with more TR & NC, there by that alone means , there are more weapons aimed at VS, and more likely to have more skilled players in their numbers.
As for VS, you have an equal chance of skilled players as unskilled players.

If you can freely farm NC & TR, with less people; It says a lot.

You can't patch player experience.
And no side has a monopoly on player experience.
IE experienced players, and new players play all 3 sides.

On Every server, VS isn't losing severely, if losing at all, while consistently having less people.
If you have less people, you should be losing more, in balance with the numeric difference.
Not this near equal to greater numbers, with less.

You keep saying that VS stuff is bad but ignore anyone's else's point on their equipment. We aren't going to be able to have a discussion if all you can say is "ITS REALLY BAD HONEST ALL THE STUFF U SAY IS WRONG WE'RE JUST GOOD THAT'S WHY WE WIN".

It makes you look like an *******. No faction is more skilled than another. We can examine usage statistics of shared equipment and get an idea of the 'skill' between factions. I'll examine some random pieces of equipment, I haven't looked these up before:

Harasser top guns: Halberd
VS kph: 19.64
NC: 18.98
TR: 19.72

Lightning AP
VS: 12.41
NC: 12.91
TR: 13.09

Sundy front Basilisk:
VS: 4.12
NC: 4.24
TR: 4.06

The above were just chosen at random.

Now let's look at some prominent FACTION SPECIFIC pieces of equipment:
Betelgeuse: 60.84
GODSAW: 47.78
Butcher: 45.66

"oh but the VS are just higher BR and more skilled"
Avg BR of the users for the above stats:
Betelgeuse: 94.8
GODSAW: 95.3
Butcher: 95.1

AR's? Same story: Darkstar, Gauss Prime, then T1A unity, in that order.

Carbines? VS wins again!

Snipers? VS wins again!

So, for all SHARED equipment, VS has nearly EQUAL stats (some items slightly better, some items slightly worse), but for almost all SPECIFIC equipment, VS wins out for the majority of PS2 combat (which is done with LMGs, ARs, Carbines, and Snipers).

Data was taken from the last OOD month stats.

It seemed like a pretty sudden drop in VS numbers a few days/weeks ago and at certain times of day. Did a big VS outfit shut down or something? There were times yesterday when VS numbers seemed comparable to other factions though.

The argument seems to focus quite a lot on tanks and Maxes. I don't play either, just infantry, so I can only say that VS infantry weapons seem OK. They just don't seem to have a niche (like TR dakka good for CQC or NC damage output good for medium range).

Long-range attacks due to accuracy.
Due to ease of use, they also are effective at medium range and closer for hitting the target as well.

lol

2/10

You do realise that the Oracle stopped updating since last June ? Lots of 'tweaks' have happened since so I expect those stats are not reflecting current performance.

As for the VS population imbalance - well I would have said the same a few weeks ago on Cobalt but since then, the VS have rebounded and now there's very little between them. It's all swings and roundabouts if you ask me.

You seem to only rely on Kph (Kills per hour i suppose because you didnt specify otherwise)
Too bad Kph is not only made up by weapon stats, the most important factor is player skill.
Go on, calculate the direct close/medium range Dps of the different faction specific guns(like i told you already)

little reminder of weapon stats;
Carbines(default guns, lets say in one of your beloved biolabs):
under 10 meters; TR 1787,5 / NC 1670 / VS 1663,6 /// on average; TR 1593,7 / NC 1460 / VS 1477,4 [dps]
First shot recoil multiplier: TR 2,35x / NC 1,75x / VS 2,8yx
Headshot multi. - 2x
Note that the NC weapon has the highest bullet velocity

Snipers(default again, the NC does not have semi auto)
TR 1412,95 / NC 694,2 [able to kill with 1 headshot] / VS 1270,5 [dps]
Max. dmg - TR 400 / NC 650 / VS 400 (before 10m)
Min. dmg - TR 334 / NC 400 / VS 260
at range of - 85m / 350m / 200m
Rpm - TR 231 / NC 49 / VS 231
The NC standard falls of because of bolt action mode, its has the exact stats of the TR M77-B and the VS XM98 (which both cost 325 certs)
TR / VS defaults need about 4 (body-)shots to kill on preferred range
(done with standard rifles because of convenience and they are the first options you have)

Note that VS bolt action sniper rifles do in fact have standard bullet drop

The average standard soldier has 500 shields and 500 health [infils have 400 shields] (does not include aux shields or any kind of cert)


i could present you facts all day long but i know you would not listen and play the "you victimize yourself" card

While I'm not a big fan of using outdated stats to comment on the current state of the game, let's take a look at that assessment.....

I went and compared a random* selection of items. * = quick best-estimate comparisons. Numbers come from rough eye-balling of the graphs over time.

• Default pistols (Mag-shot, Repeater, Beamer) - TR outperforms NC by 5% and VS by 15%, NC outperforms VS by 10%. Overall, fairly even.
• Base SMGs (Cyclone, Armstice, Eridani) - Susprisingly even, given how people talk up the "keklone" and "farmstice" and down on the Eridani.
• CQC LMGs (Anchor, MSW, Orion) - NC beats TR by 30% and VS by 90%, TR beats VS by 50%. Definitely NC > TR > VS here.
• High damage LMGs (SAW, TMG, Flare) - VS beats TR by 25% and NC by 50%, TR beats NC by 25%. Definitely VS > TR > NC.
• CQC AR (GR-22, TORQ, H-V45) - Relatively even.
• Accurate ARs (DMR, SABR, Corvus) - NC beats TR by 25% and VS by 50%, TR beats VS by 25%. Definitely NC > TR > VS.
• CQC Carbine (GD-7F, Lynx, Serpent) - Pretty even overall.
• Range Carbines (ACX, Cougar, Pulsar) - Pretty even, with VS/NC being about 5% ahead of TR.

At this point I got bored, but so far we've got a bunch of "relatively even", two NC>TR>VS, and a VS>TR>NC. I'm not seeing this "VS OP" that you seem to claim exists........

Hm... I wonder what the factions might share if, when examining the same pieces of equipment usable by all, they have equal stats.. hmm...

Hm... its as if guns have more to them than their DPS, since we've already established that the factions are equally skilled. Not a single person who plays this game thinks that so few stats as you've listed determine how good a gun is.

I've been discussing very specific aspects of the different faction's stats in another thread. What you don't seem to realize is that no matter how many factors you think you're including to determine whether something is good, you're missing something. Now, if everything was totally equal but one - all the possible measurable values, PLUS values you wouldn't even think of imagining - weapon sound effects, gun size, scopes, etc, THEN you'd be comparing weapons truly equally with only 1 value difference.

Man, just speaking of scopes, have you seen how poor the TR and NC ones are compared to Vanu?

Notice the exact person-sized walls on the edge of the TR and NC's 2x sight.

1x is even more pronounced.

Now, as to why I use kph as a measurement: it inadvertently takes into account all values. And, since we've shown that skill is equal across them, well... then we're just measuring the guns in a pure vacuum.

Let's look at DA stats. What might benefit a faction's alert victory rate the most? Maybe, how well their lowest common denominator can fight? Hm.. what is useful for a Heavy Assault.. their starter LMG maybe? Their RL?
T9 CARV kph: 25
SAW: 25
Orion: 27

ML-7 vkph: 10
Shrike: 10
S1: 11

Wow, off the bat, the starter VS kit seems to be a bit better! Whys that? b-but the on paper stats are totally the same! Nabutso! Even their sights are the same! And they're about the same size on screen! wtf i hate nabutso now!

Who fires RLs at targets? Heavy assaults. What are their targets? Vehicles. What might be hard to see firing at you? A dark as hell ******* DARK PURPLE heavy sitting on a tower/wall/base somewhere. VS are harder to see because they are darker. That's a fact. Being in a vehicle makes them even harder to see, as you're both further away and not looking for them, whereas a bright red or blue guy will stand out.

Are you going to sit here and tell me that such a factor cannot be taken into account? I think it can. And in this circumstance, since we've isolated ALL differences, we can see exac-- but wait. Have we isolated all differences? Is it.. is it possible that we've missed something? We sure did: what are their targets really?

Magriders are harder to hit. Uh oh! Nabutso are you telling me that Magriders are harder to hit with default RLs, and that this may have some sort of impact as to how long Magriders can stick around near infantry?

Something to note: the Saron has a kph of 21, while the Enforcer and Gatekeeper are 20. Look at that. VS default Heavies kill MBTs more often, while anti-tank Magriders kill infantry more often than Vanguards and Prowlers. Could these possible be related? Is this small seemingly random advantage having echoes throughout the entire faction giving it benefits you wouldn't have even thought about because they seem to loosely interconnected?

You.
Tell.
Me.

Cannot be used because the Orion is the DEFAULT for VS. Thus, you have a large concentration of bad players using the Orion compared to the Anchor and MSW-R.

Same deal. SAW is default. You can only compare defaults to defaults.

Yeah, your eyeballing of graphs is very useful to the conversation.

The differences in weapons are so slight as to be laughable why on earth do people base there arguments on stats of weapons its not going to help you when you get shot by an LA up a tree or get it in the back by some random guy or when you get sniped.

Seriously comparing weapons is just daft its doesn't account for a persons aim or the fact that not every fight is not face to face , This is all about numbers VS feel weak because they are outnumbered pure and simple when they have the numbers they can Zerg with the best of them.

So the problem is WHY are people not playing VS? and more importantly WHY are new players not playing VS?

1/ Funny looking guns.
2/ Religious Nutters
3/ Spandex
4/ The colour purple
5/ Really annoying gun sounds
6/ Crap looking MBT
7/ Awful looking cosmetics
8/ Gun Variation very poor

These are just a few reasons imho VS cant compete with the other factions numbers wise and it is about numbers not weapons.

VS don't need buffs they need a rebranding to make them more appealing to play.

you will also have to consider the differing player numbers, NC often has 10% more pop than VS
(plus the other VS lmg's are slightly worse than the orion dps wise)
the launcher stats are completely the same, so it either means the VS has better players or VS has more enemies to shoot at

considering stats like recoil and accuracy, NC has still better guns than VS, because they have a lot better dpr with with only a little more recoil
(plus recoil is a minor obstacle when about 80% of the important fights happen at 50 meter ranges)

Considering the color, NC blue/grey got the same camouflage effect in grey buildings (which most of the buildings and interior are)
dont act like NC wears neon blue armor, most of them have dark blue camouflage pattern or light grey with a bit of blue

Saron is semi auto, unlike enforcer/gatekeeper, its the secondary weapon people complain about, not the main turret
small comparison - default VS main 190 dmg & 50m/s less than NC main, "compensating" with 0.25s faster reload
magrider needs to turn its whole body to aim, NC/TR tanks dont, it also cant hide its body in a hole in the ground while still shooting out

You are cherry picking Statistics! but let me look like you want me look

AVERAGE ACCURACY

Betelgeuse: 24.7%
GODSAW: 26%
Butcher: 22.9%
OMG NO BULLET DROP... wait but accuracy?!

AVERAGE KPH

Betelgeuse: 59.1
GODSAW: 53.7
Butcher: 52
OMG The GUN IS OP... not quite wait until the next one
AVERAGE DPU (Deaths per USER)
Betelgeuse: 1530
GODSAW: 959
Butcher: 956

So you see, people just spend more time with their beattlejuice then the other counter parts, do not have the best statistics besides Playing with it more to get better with it.

But if you want we can have a talk also about carbines and we can start with default ones has well, sniper rifles like the railjack or moonshot and cherry pick stats so it makes it look like the VS are OP and need another nerf.

But I will give you this, lancer is a shreeder dough damage drops to crap after a few hundred meters (not like Phoenix remote control, faction trait!), phaseshift is good, orion is a well balanced lmg not OP, not 200 damage per bullet, and magryder is only very effective in amerish when we can sneek behind a tank column with NERF AP rounds (IronShield look at who is shooting at you shoot back, NC wins), and Amerish the continent where no one plays unless hossin is unlocked. but none of this VS weaponry is a huge game changer or is stock weaponry, you get it when you have spend DBC or experience in game.

Again VS wins are not OP related, they are experience related, in EU server VS are called the Veteran Faction that know how to use the VS traits to its full potencial, thats it, now that is getting less revelant since other faction players are getting more experienced. Meaning New players have a harder time on the VS then on any other faction and experienced players are having trouble to explore other faction weaknesses.

Keep in mind I played PS2 since BETA, things where way more balanced back then before everybody complain about pew pew guns, we could actually have standoffs, right now we have to avoid fighting NC at any range and everyone hates vanu.

You know what.... **** it. You ARE just a No0T clone. I gave you perfectly good information, using your own methods (which I've complained about before) and suddenly there's a problem with them?! When you defended them to the death before?! Lolwut?

In fact, hell, you're worse than No0T. At least No0T has the honesty to look like the troll he is, while you're just straight up trolling while pretending not to.

I'm done. Congratulations, you are the first person to hit my ignore list EVER. Even No0T hasn't managed that!

Quit wasting your time, folks. This dude has his head so far up his ar$e that he can see daylight!

My own methods? I never compared things which are incomparable.

These are per person stats. Not how many kills occur per faction per hour.

Finally, you admit that something besides the on-paper stats have an impact.

aaand you forgot it already

In the day time inside of buildings NC is more like the walls than the other factions. At night time, in any area, VS are more like all structures, and the ground. That wins.

You are continuing to cherry pick aspects of equipment. You cannot only look at the stats you are looking at.

Are you trying to tell me that not having bullet drop means that no matter how a gun is used, it will have better accuracy? You know better than that.

The Aurax weapons are unique in that they are nearly identical to already existent equipment you could use before. Besides, you can't use all-time stats for a piece of equipment like the Betelgeuse that received such a huge change. If you want an actual measurement of use, look at avg playtime. The MSW-R gets nearly twice the hours of the LA-1, yet the LA-1 has superior k/d and kph. That isn't because LA-1 users are more skilled.

...
If things were balanced, why were they changed? You honestly think it's just because people complained? It's not like any joe shmo goes and changes the stats, you know?

I even think, this is influenced by the political situation. The characteristics of VS you have stated make them probably the most "gay" faction (they can be percieved as "gay" in the faction selection menu due to their intro music, suit shape and color scheme). Together with the fact a significant part of the Miller server playerbase are russians and the recent laws in russia leading to discrimination of homosexuality, a considerable portion of new players can be pushed away from choosing Vanu as their faction.
This is also a quite recent situation that could correlate with the decline of the Miller VS population.
/politics

You got Gay from the VS music?

I think thats jumping to a massive conclusion.
I personally dont think VS look Gay.

Unless of course thats a sissy boy underneath?

Its Daybreak fault, merging servers for no reason and dont care about existing server population !!! Btw merge all russian players from Cobalt to Miller, since we dont want/need them on Cobalt ..

Do you honestly think all the Russians went to Colbalt, and non to Miller?
If so you are wrong, and tbh quite delusional, large influx of BR1-20 recently with the RUSS tag, or RUS in their name somewhere on Miller.

Your victim mentality has no place here.

Agreed. There's tons of russians and russian outfits on Miller.