VS nerfed into utter crap... TR has best stuff!

It is ridiculous, VS guns are junky as hell, and TR has the best guns, tanks, maxes.

Ahahahaha ahahaha oh wow, tell us more please! And please the list of the best guns, can't wait to try them out!

On a related note Muskellunge on Lake St. Clair prefer artificial bait to be trolled at a speed of 3.5mph.

Let's begin the List ,Mr. TrIsNotOp:

Gatekeeper, nearly no Bulletdrop, too accurate on Range, too big magazine size and too much damage.
Also too easy to use.

Same for Vulcan, Easy to use just hold down fire while fapping with the other hand.

Prowler and Ability, Nearly no bulletdrop, less than a sec to deploy and redeploy and deploy is a too good buffability.

And then there are the LMGs....

TX1 Repeater, best TTK, best DPS (Outguns the NS LMG and Carbine),

Overall:
More Firerate
Bigger magazine ON EVERYTHING

While VS has "Accuracy" and no bulletdrop on weapons you don't need it and NC has "More Damage" but high recoil....
There is literally NO DOWNSIDE on TR.


I play all three Factions and can say that TR is in fact OP.

You are objectively wrong, and you are using fallacies in your arguments.

Ooooh boi! Let's begin the show!

While Gatekeeper has nice range and speed it doesn't have that much of damage you're speaking of. It's nice but not that nice.

You've got your own Vulcan with a cherry on top! Why are you still complaining?

Magrider has ability to climb the mountains, flank from unexpected directions, strafing to avoid fire while facing the enemy with frontal armor all the time and not to mention the afterburner to do "heck that doing a leave".

Repeaters don't win alerts, buddy. VS do it anyway.

More fire rate and mag size. Yah sure, while you miss like 70% of your shots. And then reload like a slowpoke.

Oh and not to mention those LPPA Scythes. They gon get nerfed, but it's reasonable nerf.

It was told for you before and I will tell you again. Acknowledge your faction perks and stop looking at other factions with envy.

You do realise that while you say the entire faction is OP, you've only mentioned the tank part here?
Nothing about how the VS MAX beats the TR MAX with almost every single weapon? The TR MAX practically only has the Pounders going for it... In an AI role, while the VS MAX once again sweeps the floor with the TR MAX in the AV role.

As for the LMG's you skipped over...
In the most used department the VS do have the highest scoring weapon in the Orion, but all other VS weapons are pretty similar to the TR's... Even though they still score higher than the TR weapons overall. But you completely skip over the fact that the NC scores worse on the most used weapons, and overall might be lagging behind. Considering the massive difference in performance with the NS 15-M between factions it shows that the TR and VS weapons are superior, because if the arsenals were equal then the NS 15-M should score similar no matter which faction holds it.

The same trend happens with the Carbines btw, although the differences are much, much smaller there.

So why don't we rebrand this "NC still crap despite a lack of nerfs, TR and VS trump it anyway in lots of statistics especially alerts"

There is only one overpowered weapon in the game

Lies! Everyone knows the Beamer is the king of all weapons.

VS = TR > NC

The general equation i work by...

I PLAY ALL 3 FACTIONS

Magriders Afterburner holds for just 2.5 seconds and is not even fast, just that you know.

Also there are rarely Magriders at a roof of a mountain like Prowler and Harasser with Gatekeeper.

On every Prowler is a Gatekeeper, there is nothing other you have to admit it.

Also like is said i play all 3 Factions and i spoke for VS AND NC
I know the Stats pretty well and the VS is laughable, the only good weapons are Blueshift and Cosmos and the ZOE ability is the biggest Crap now, i don't see where the VS should be better, even equal than a NC or TR Max.

I play all 3 factions as well!
And I have statistics to back up my claims!

Hey the first one is a redundant remark that has nothing to do with anything, but the second one actually is very important. You don't know the statistics, you don't even show them. I just used Oracle Of Death to give you a quick overview of the VS weapons vs the TR and NC, and those statistics call you a liar.

Hmmm............I just finished posting on an NC victim-complex thread but I see we are back to the VS victim-complex stuff that started last week.

Like several other posters on this thread I also play all three factions, infantry only - so no comment about vehicle vs vehcile balance.

TX1 Repeater is defintitely my favourite default pistol and very likely the best of the lot. But, well, it's a pistol, not a game winner. No one I've ever seen has claimed that NC having the best default sniper rifle is a game winner. I've heard it said about the VS Orion but that seems to be an even spread of advantages in one weapon class or the other across all three factions. If anything, HAs are more common so you'd think that if the whole thing came down to who has the best gun then VS would have the upper hand

Personally I find in the LMG, AR and Carbine categories that the stock TR weapons suit me best because I like high RoF. And 750 is pretty good compared to the other faction starter weapons (except the erm.... Orion again which has the same 750 RoF). But then I find VS weapons much more forgiving to use in terms of recoil characteristics. I've had much sport with the Orion and the Solstice (although I've now certed into the Polaris and VX6-7 for preference (and the Jaguar/Bull for TR).

There's a lot of argument and salt about tank vs tank balance I can't comment on but as infantry I find that Maggies are like sand on the beach - they get into all sorts of inconvenient places. Prowlers and Vanguards are danger from afar but frankly, I'm more often gibbed by a Lightning or a Harrasser (all-faction vehicles). Of them all, I find the Magrider hardest to hit with Mana Turret or dumbfire RL (although I've head they have lower HP to offset their agility)

As for top guns, I almost never get killed by GK (or Aphelion or Mjolnir for that matter). Its the Halberd and the Saron that most often do for me, followed by the Vulcan.

TL;DR I find the factions pretty well balanced, recognsing that the balance is asymmetrical and I have been able to cert into equivalent or near equivalent weapons on each faction to match other faction stock weapons.

The only weapon class that TR have an advantage over VS in are ARs. Everything else is pretty equal.

Reads as "carbon copy"....

So much bias in this thread...

As a pleb who plays all 3 factions in this game, all of them are balanced. Seriously, if we put salt and bias aside, the game is insanely balanced across all areas of the game equally. The only difference is in ES traits, favored range and how the weapon is used.

Hey, the stats say it too :

LMGs - Orion trumps everything, Betelgeuse still the best LMG. Else stats are pretty similar. If we include the hearsay and popularity, Betelgeuse is still widely regarded as the top LMG, the Orion is once again the best non-auraxium choice and the best equivalents are the Anchor and the MSW-R. All factions seem to have decent options across the board and except for these exceptions they're equally powerful.

Carbines - Used all TR, almost all VS and a good amount of NC ones. Equally powerful across the board stats-wise. If you look at measures like KPU/KPH and Kills/Uniques and headshot kills, it's again pretty equal and no faction has got the short end of a stick. Personally I find the Solstice to be pretty meh and overall the weakest carbine (I mean, 2.8 first shot recoil multiplier? How can someone even burst fire with that much recoil at the first shot?), but it's very close to all others.

Assault rifles - Again, same story. Same/similar statistics, yet vastly different stats and roles. Pretty decently balanced IMO. NC has full auto sniper rifles and which are insanely powerful in short bursts, VS has no recoil on their assault rifles and TR has got big mags and dakka.

And I could go on and on... really the only thing that is lackluser in the VS is the ESF. LPPA is getting a serious nerf, and overall the Scythe is by it's nature overall a bit weaker, considering it benefits the least from the hover frame and is the slowest, but at least it's easier to use when compared to others, so that is at least something, needs a little love IMO.

The mag? If anyone says that's the worst tank in the game, that statement is just laughable. The Mag is the most fun tank in the game, and while it may not be the best, it's certainly not the worst (*cough cough* VANGUARD *cough*). The prowler is still the king of all tanks, while the Vanguard is for some dumb reason still the worst tank, despite the best ES MBT ability and more damaging, faster velocity projectile because it behaves like a slow turd. It is the slowest out of them all when moving forwards by a bit, but when you have to pull back, you're dead, the insanely slow speed while moving backwards is basically a death sentence to your tank if the enemy is pushing, unless you reverse expose your back and you're basically dead then too.

AI mines? Claymores are a bit too good, but what dummy decided it was a good idea to put giant flashing lights on bouncing betties and proxy mines?

TL : DR ; Your arsenal isn't utter crap and TR isn't god mode OP, everyone is equal in all ways possible except in very few categories.

Also, dear NC players, you don't know with what amazing **** you've been blessed by the devs, best SMGs, awesome carbines, good assault rifles, good LMGs, the most versatile and competent MAX unit in all categories and has an ES ability which isn't mediocre, Reaver benefits the most from the hover frame and has the longest and fastest afterburner, which is super relevant in the current air meta. I can't believe you guys are complaining about a bunch of first world problems for your guns, every single weapon in general has a weakness, but you wildly complain despite having top equipment at your disposal (with a few exceptions). It's almost like you guys are feminists.

I believe that PS2 is a game that offers you a variety of playstyles, so it's not monotonous in this aspect.

What I think the problem is, is that many players don't actually know what playstyle suits them best or they don't know how to deal with certain playstyles.

As a result, they tend to find things OP or unfair and get "b*tthurt" when that's really not the case...

VS also has lasher which does some area damage and beatlejuice that has no bullets but heat up system so no TR dont have the best guns plus the tx1 repeater is not as good as an smg and each bullet doesnt do as much damage as an original secondary weapon plus its easier to mir not if you cant avoid it thats up to your own skill

A few interesting pieces of data. I'll not go too far into analysis for any of the above, the goal of the below information is to show a general game state, and a high level view of faction performance for a few specific units.


Max AV, sorted by total kills. You will note the significant superiority of the Pounder in general. Comets are nice, but they don't hold a candle to Pounders. Vortex has the best kill rate versus vehicles, but as they are used 1/4 as often as fractures... they don't have much of an overall impact on the battlefield.




Max AI weapons, sorted by kills. With a KPU of 3.93 in favor of the VS, the TR follow close behind with a KPU of 3.59, the difference is quite small. The top two VS weapons have 8135 total combined kills, with 1833 total users: 4.44 average kills per user. The TR have 8140 total combined kills, with 1974 total users: 4.12 average kills per user. Yep, the VS have a slight advantage - overall, the MAX AI playing field is roughly level.




For MBT primaries... There's really no comparison, the P2-120 AP alone is vastly outclassing everything else on the battlefield in general. Not bothering with totals here. TR is the clear winner in every major area.



MBT Secondaries - the Gatekeeper is roughly on par with the Saron, with a general performance bump in favor of the Saron. The one issue I have with the Gatekeeper taken on it's own, is the lack of projectile visibility. When paired with the Prowler... well, I see no reason why one faction should have the best MBT primary and a contender for the best secondary. This adds a force multiplier to what is already a force multiplier. The best primary should be paired with the worst secondary, the best secondary should be paired with the worst primary, etc.



For Harassers: Everything ES TR is outperforming anything the VS has on the field. The Aphelion has roughly equal KPU to the Vulcan, but the Marauder... The MJOLNIR is performing better than the PPA, thats all I'll say on that topic here.


Just a few thoughts. I wouldn't go as far as to say that everything the VS has sucks, there are still a few well-performing toys left in their arsenal. From my point of view (I main VS in general, although i've been putting an embarrassing amount of time into the TR) - the P2-120 series of cannons is almost as battle-influencing as ZOE was in it's prime, when it comes to armor fights. (The difference being that tanks don't cap points, and once the battle is inside a base, tanks don't matter quite as much.)

LOL. Why not just sort the tables by average air KPU and declare TR / gatekeeper OP, like people usually do.

Fun fact, the Pounders do _less_ vehicle kills than other AV MAX weapons and _less_ infantery kills then other AI MAX weapons. How are they OP? NC and VS can switch their loadout, TR does not have to, because TR MAX AI weapons are lackluster.