VS ESSR: Shade general discussion thread.

Something that's still bugging me about the charge mechanic is why the rifle doesn't equip fully charged and ready to fire a full power shot. As far as I'm concerned this is the equivalant of making any other BASR wait until you are ADS before chambering the round. It's a crazy limitation to have on a sniper rifle, I can kinda see how it works for the Lancer since AV weapons should work differently to BASR. But imagine if the other BASR's couldn't chamber a round until they were ADS? It would be ridiculous, and yet that is exactly what they've given us.

The cooldown after a full shot is still way too long in the updated rifle, 2.5-3 seconds max should be the cooldown before another full powered shot is available and you should be able to fire off lower powered shots before the bar is fully recharged.

What would be the downside of the gun then, beyond the inability to kill at exactly 300m?

I will agree with most of your points Galactica,

However I think the Devs are trying to mimic the re-chamber time with the charged shot, in addition to a short/long reload. This adds up to the amount of time you have to "wait" to compensate for ammo. So in that sense the shade should always be a slightly longer delay then your typical BASR for the heat mechanic as to compensate for its perks of requiring no ammo.

Now this entire : "You cannot fire from cloak" and must charge your shots If due to technical reasons they cannot allow us to charge from cloak, make sure its a minimal delay so we are not exposed for long periods of time. I would much rather prefer to fire from cloak fully charged and make those stealthy shots when I need to. Indeed you want to be able to hide snipe, and use your cloak as a way to line up those headshots. Not having that puts the player at a very large disadvantage.


With regards to another poster on Page #1

I don't think having the rifle "Auto charge" when you ADS is the answer because that would remove the Semi-Auto fire mode. You have to admit the rifle is elegantly designed to be able to switch between the two modes instinctively. I think they should just allow us to charge the rifle from cloak to be honest. We would still need to uncloak to fire, but it is the most elegant solution.

Possible Ways to Balance The Shade BASR Mode:

Keep the "No Follow Ups" with the heat mechanic to prevent us from using it like a normal BASR. This would still allow players to perform well aimed shots on people. Yet it would be more punishing when they miss and not allow for body shots with the heat mechanic unless their target is really derpy and sticks around until the heat mechanic cools down. Sacrificing the ability to make follow up shots is probably necessary for a weapon which does not have bullet drop and also has unlimited ammo. The more and more I think about it. I would rather have more favorable heat times and the ability to fire charged shots after uncloaking without the exposure. You want an "Effective" BASR mode. Having the ability to follow up is just a crutch and would keep the other BASR still looking attractive for normal sniping needs.

As long as the gun doesn't release a charged shot automatically you should have a fairly effective BASR mode, and a very nice Semi-Auto. The BASR mode won't be the greatest because the heat mechanic would prevent follow ups, but it would have unlimited ammo and would make an interesting choice. I know I would use it in certain situations over a normal BASR.

I suppose you could ask what's the downside of a rifle that's capable of OSK at 300m or more that also acts as a shotgun at close range? As someone either on this thread or a related one said, the amount of bullet drop at 300m is apparently negligable so no drop isn't an insane advantage. The downside of the Shade would be the "re-load" or recharge time between full powered shots. Make that time longer than re-load on the other ES BASR's but still shorter than it is right now and there you go Vanu get an advantage but it isn't so ridiculous that it turns into a headshot machine. Also I think the bullet velocity on the Shade is lower than the other empire's so that's a disadvantage as well.

I'm fine with mimicing the re-chamber time, but not on the first shot! Does any other BASR take that long to fire it's first shot? On the first shot if the gun isn't charged are they saying that the VS are walking around with an uncharged gun? So would the TR and NC be ok with the devs saying they have to manually chamber the first round because apparently snipers are stupid enough to wander round with an unloaded gun?

I'd happily drop the follow up shot ability if the BASR charge mechanism made more sense. We already have semi auto with no bullet drop that work fine.

The charge not holding is another thing that seems a crazy decision it should hold at max charge because like you say after it fires it's not like a follow up shot is happening right away.

There's an interesting gun in here somewhere, I just hope the dev's can be bothered to find it.

All the perks, benefits, and gimmicks in the world don't really matter, because as it stands the current Shade doesn't have enough sustained damage output to make it a competitive option , except for maybe the MOST "conservative" of snipers hiding away at render range.

I'm a dedicated infiltrator when playing with my group, I prefer the ghost and the phantom in this role. The reason why I use sniper rifles is because of their tremendous sustained burst damage and high accuracy, these two factors make it an extremely good option for taking out multiple full-health enemies at range in a couple seconds.

As an infiltrator who is GETTING SHOT AT by the very targets I'm aiming at, 3-4 semi shots and 1 bolt shot per 5-7 seconds is not enough firepower. I don't have the luxury of waiting for my targets to "stop moving" so I can get a headshot when they are actively strafing or shooting at teamates and/or me! Thus most of the time I have to take body shots against targets that within 50m.

Going for "charged" body shots, even assuming perfect accuracy, 10 seconds (5 per shot) to take down one target is not viable.

I understand that the Shade is not suppose to fully replace the other rifles, the current iteration is just too slow.

What It needs to have:

• Two seconds between Charged "Bolt" shots ( More time than the bolt actions)
• Sustained fire of 8 Non-charged "Semi" shots (Less ammo than the semi autos of 10 shots)

^^^ These are the constants that the other parts of the rifle need to be balanced around. Unlimited ammo and no bullet drop are benefits of utility, but can't take priority over ACTUALLY KILLING PEOPLE.

Please, think about the people who might use this in actual combat, not just as an unlimited ammo weapon for snipers that farm kills hundreds of meters away with total impunity .

Tested Shade:
02/08/2014

Even with the mini patch that was supposed to reduce the heat bar somewhat I am still waiting far too long between fully charged shots. Marcus is correct, even playing conservatively with cover you would be pushed back by enemy forces, and be unable to return fire in any meaningful amount of time to dissuade them.

The heat bar is too long still, and detrimental. More tweaks required.

I played with it a bit, If it got the ability to hold a charge, and maybe a bit shorter cooldown when it overheats it would seem like a SOLID weapon.

Maybe make it use ammo like a percentage of a battery like in Halo instead of unlimited to balance the aforementioned.

The charge time is very short - it's done in about the same time it takes for the scope to become completely steady when you hold shift. It's still something you need to adjust to, but far from unusable.

I'd like an extra uncharged shot before overheat, but feel that two charged shots would be pushing balance a wee bit too far. Maybe if it were something like 90% heat instead of 100%, that'd be workable.

(I snipe a lot btw, I'm not some hater )

I don't think it should have 2 charged shots before overheat, 1 fully charged and then the possibility for follow up after a very short delay as the weapon recharges. Fully charged should be the weapons default position just like having a round chambered is the default for any other BASR, if that isn't the case then scrap it being BASR capable and just make it a Semi Auto with a charge mechanism, it works pretty well in that respect.

Weapon is cool in the concept and can get really interesting, if:

1) Gun starts precharged and charges passively OR can be charged in stealth and kept charged.
2) Gun will not overheat in one shot, can do 1-2 follow-ups. AND/OR cooling rate must be much faster.

Even with the recent cooldown reduction I still think that the Shade takes too long to cooldown. I'm not really seeing why I should want to have a 5 second delay between full-power shots versus simply taking my trusty Parallax with me. I know the cooldown time is supposed to be one of the things that compensates for having no bullet drop but, as other people have said, the high-end BASRs don't really have that much drop to begin with.

I also can't say I agree with the proposed notion of having the gun pre-charge. This effectively takes away the ability to use it as a semi-auto rifle since the first shot will always be a charged shot and cause an automatic overheat. The best way I see something like this working is to have it optional. What if the rifle had a selectable fire mode, semi-auto or full-charge, with the full-charge mode precharging the shot? That would keep both fire modes effective without one ruining the other.

Personally, however, I think I'd prefer it if the weapon could be charged while cloaked and held indefinitely. I'd take that over a pre-charge mode.

Hmm...

The new cooldown duration is fine in my opinion, the heat cost of the charged shot is what needs changed. The ability to pull off two charged shots before overheating the weapon would bring this closer to where it needs to be. The ability to hold a charge on the first shot at the cost of additional heat and release either charged shot before the cycle completes in order to cancel and save yourself some heat would finalize the rifle.

Have the heat build as you hold the button to charge it up, if they move...you release prematurely and save yourself some of that heat cost. You can hold the charge of the first shot for as long as you like...but it'll automatically fire if the heat builds to maximum, so you won't be able to hold it indefinitely or hold that second charged shot.

The concept has to be changed slightly:

1. Step: Precharge the weapon with a long click on the "fire" button (usually left mouse), no trigger of a shot - Without this precharge procedure, any short click on the fire button will Semi-Auto fire the weapon
2. Step: The weapon holds this charge as long as you want, like a chambered bullet - cant be Semi-Auto fire as long as this bolt is charged and hold
3. Step: Fire at will with a short click on the "fire" button and the bolt will be triggered - only then you are able to either charge another bolt or SA the gun.

I think this is the most simple procedure and will satisfy everyone - those who like the versatility, those who like controlled Bolt Action and those who like quick Semi-Auto. The gun itself can be balanced with the overheat time and damage.

The heat lock after BA mode should be a bit longer than the time that it is compared with the long reload of other BA rifles, while the heatlock after SA should come after 8 bullets (less than a SA gun) to give a drawback for the versatility over the other guns. This gun isn't specialized as the others, so it needs a drawback against them.

Also it should be accumulator charged: means the gun itself has an accu that goes pretty fast empty if you shoot all the time (you get an energybar instead of bullets, to show its current state). This accu can be reloaded very slowly by sunshine? , and empties relatively fast if you shoot very quickly one round after another.

• The Accu holds energy for 30 Bolts (0,75 of default rounds of a BA rifle)
• or for 60 SA shots

Every shot drains capacity, but this loads up very slowly - maybe a full charge within 15-20 minutes

Problem solved!

As I predicted both times before, this gun ends up trying to do multiple things (many of which are pointless in the first place) and ends up failing miserably at all of them.

The way they coded the Cloak prevents you from being able to charge the rifle up manually. Then there's gun sway AND a charging window on the gun. I feel like I'm trying to play the fair game where you toss a ball through two rings, moving in opposite directions, as they cross each other.

Devs PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE code up a passive charging mechanic. This would solve the Cloak charging problem AND move the Shade back to sway only. It would require you to add in a selector switch to go between semi and charging but oh well, it would make the gun worth carrying for more than just another Auraxium medal.

The cooldown needs to be between 2.25s and 2.75s. 5 seconds is simply WAYYYYYYY too long and makes it pointless to have unlimited ammo. I when I run my BASR (Parallax) and have a serious sniping spree, I will burn through 40 rounds of ammo in about 2 minutes. To get 40 rounds out of this weapon, it would take me 200 seconds which is 3 min 20 seconds, which is 67% LONGER. I don't even see the point of unlimited ammo unless you're lone wolf ghost capping or managed to drop yourself onto the top of one of the rock outcroppings on Indar.

I'm not saying I wouldn't take unlimited ammo, I'm just saying that the utility of it is WAYYYYY too expensive at the cost of a 5 second cool down.

Still doesn't solve the problem of being uncloaked while you are charging the thing. Maybe if you're in the middle of nowhere and trolling three noobs, cloaking isn't such a big deal.

But if you go near a 100+ person battle, you get ONE shot and after that even cloaks might not save you. However, NOT cloaking will most DEFINITELY get you killed before you can take another shot.

Sure, I did not mention it, mainly because I wasn't aware of this fact... however if the community votes for charging bolts while cloaked, same as chambering bullets while cloaked, I think this won't unbalance the gun - if the devs change it, is on the other hand...

Whatever you do, SOE, keep bullet drop off. That's one of our faction traits, nerf everyting else if you want, but please leave our trait in one of those few places where it's actually useful.

Also...

Please don't recycle ANY assets for this weapon.

Nothing says "EA-style rushed videogame" like a rocket launcher crosshair & sound being reused for a sniper rifle. I know this will probably change and that the rifle is in its early stage etc but I just want to stress this. Make the thing unique, give it its own charging indicator (which should also accurately show the charge level, not just tell you when it's ready), its own sound, its own animations (don't use the "plates moving back" animation currently used for the Lancer and Vortex, do something different please). This has happened in the past (Galaxy spawn update - only a few days on PTS anyone? Not to mention the Vortex...) and it's not a good trend.

Don't rush it, please. I beg you, take your time, I (and I don't think I'm the only one) would much rather have a good, unique, cool rifle that took a month to develop than a mashed-together weapon that clearly recycles code and assets from a rocket launcher developed in one week.

Usually you rechamber while you are in the process of recloaking. However, you can't be in the middle of charging while you uncloak. You have to be fully uncloaked before you can start to charge the Shade.

Go get a Spectre if you want your no-bullet drop if you are that terrible at using mildots and judging distance/drop.

The top tier BASR's (Longshot, RAMS .50, and Parallax) suffer about 1.5mildots of drop @ 300m. If you are at 100m you can aim for the face and still get a headshot because the bullet will land at the base of the neck which is the bottom of the head hitbox.

Seriously bullet drop in this game is really a non-issue. If there was SERIOUS drop that you had to account for (like on the decimortar), then no drop would be one thing. However, 1.5mildots @ 300m is like 0.5 meters @ 300m. That means you get about half a body's worth of drop at 300m for the 650m/s rifles. The 550m/s rifles suffer from a LOT more drop but you should only be using those cheapo rifles when you're new to the game and can't afford the better ones (which these new ESSR's won't be cheap).

Try a suppressor on 300m, then it is an issue - the 1.5 md (12x scope) become 5.5 md