[Vortex]What's the point of having a charge up weapon that deals less damage if you charge it up?

According to this weapons sheet, the Vortex deals:


* 105 damage on charge 1
* 190 damage on charge 2
* 295 damage on charge 3

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=75

Charging up to Charge 3 takes roughly 2.5 Seconds.

In the Meantime, just spamming Charge 1 shots have a Refire rate of 60/171 = 0.35 seconds, allowing us to shoot 2.5/0.35 = 7 times in the same period of time. That is 735 damage, instead of 295, for the same period of time.

That means that by using the Charge up mechanic of our Charge up weapon, we reduce our DPS by literally 60%, if my hangover-math is correct.

The Lancer works by increasing the Damage output per charge exponentially. From 150 to 375 and then 750.

The Vortex on the other hand actually reduced the damage we deal per ammo-count while taking in combination to severely reducing the fire rate.

There is literally no reason to use the Charge up mechanic on the Vortex.

I agree that it was weird decision to lower the damage when you charge up, mayby we got this because of complaining of having similar weapon like Lancer.

Anyways, the charge up is not complete waste, I actually mainly use charge 3 shots. When at longer range actually hitting the target is more important, and popping in and out of cover is really easy with charge up mechanic when using ZOE. If you just spam level 1 shots you will be obscuring your view while staying in the open, and let's not forget the huge recoil when spamming.

Spamming rank 1 shots is good at short range, especially when facing other MAX:s or vehicles. When facing infantry hitting one dual charge3 helps a lot, you can then finish them of with single charged shots or with MAX punch. Against hovering ESF it's also better open with a charge level 3 as alpha damage and then try to follow up with single charged shots.

You may want to look at this instead. The Vortex has many types of resist values against different targets, it even kills a Vanguard at about the same speed as a Prowler.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...l 1&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

The vortex is a joke. If you encounter a HA with vortex equipped you are screwed thanks to the huge penalty in dmg vs infantry and MAX's.

Alright, some TTK measuring i did today:

Harrasser: 6 seconds with Charge 1 spam. 12 seconds with Charge 3 shots.

Vanguard, Front armor: 20 Seconds with Charge 1 spam. 27 seconds with Charge 3.

Prowler, 250m away: 30 seconds with Charge 1 spam, but reduced firing rate due to accuracy recovering. 26 seconds with Charge 3 shots.

Not to mention that the Vortex have severely lower Anti-infantry capabilities, compared to the Fracture, who have a Harrasser TTK of 4 seconds, and a Vanguard TTK of 17 seconds.

The Vortex is underperforming.

Or the fracture is too good at AI, depends on where you think they should be.

Its like the pounders, I'm on the wall as to wether they should be improved as an AI, or if every other AV in the game should be nerfed as an AI.

Regarding charge up, without zoom, its fairly limited. Since I found high charges to be more usefull at hitting ranged targets, since you just can't line up your shots properly if you are spam clicking 2 buttons at once like mad.

Also I remember reading somewhere(albeit this was about the lancer). That higher charge levels where supposed to have higher velocity. Although if this is the case, I haven't noticed it with the Vortex.

Just use comets, the vortex is just a more expensive lancer that costs resources and is awful against maxes.

I bought dual Fractures and dual Ravens, and got a whole lot of fun with them. But Vortex is totally unappealing for me. I don't like charge mechanics, I don't like how the Vortex looks like (baby pistol), and the fact that single shots are superior to charged shots is proof for absolute lack of interest from the designers.

Don''t buy this weapon for now. On mass scale, this is the only way to cause a change.
In case it will get a cool design (like when it was called Starfire), and generally some thoughts have been put into this weapon, I might consider buying one.

I really don't understand why anybody would expend 2k certs or 1,5k SC on the Vortex when you can get the Lancer for the HA for half that price, using a MAX as an AV sniper makes no sense to me.

You adapted to an incomplete weapon.
That doesnt make the weapon "ok" tough.

it needs a buff that is all i can say on the vortex, oh and if not buffed...than make it a scatter-gun....because LASER SCATTER-GUNSARE AWESOME...and such

Only reason is "Alpha Strike"... Lead with 300 damage first shot, then spam shot.

Hardly worth it though.

and yah.... Comets FTW. Vortex needs a serious pass to make it worth considering.

Yah, Lancer is a much better AV Sniper. You get a scope. It costs no resource and has no CD. The charge up mechanic (what you use when sniping, because at close range you just 1click spam Vortex for less DPS than Comets) on the Lancer actually increases damage.

Dual Vortex is only a hair better than the Lancer in terms of DPS when using charge up to snipe.

Oh, and also... why spend 2k certs or 1.4k SC when a mere 250 cert investment will give you a second Comet, which for non-Sniping ranges has better AV DPS and doesn't leave you utterly gimped against Infantry

If the Vortex only did 295 dmg per charged shot vs tanks you would have to shoot a tank in the rear with about 7 double level 3 shots to kill it. Try in VR and see how many shots you need against a tank from the rear. Click this link and then read up on resist values. The Vortex can even kill a Vanguard in about the same time it kills a Prowler because it does more damage against Vanguards than any other tank.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rtcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250&pli=1

Against a Vanguard
level 1 - 199.5
level 2 - 456
level 3 - 958.75

Against a Prowler
level 1 - 178.5
level 2 - 408.5
level 3 - 855.5

So stop crying and get informed, the only thing the Vortex sucks against is infantry and to some extent MAX units now. In close range you'd probably want Comets but the Vortex is far from bad at it's intended purpose. The bugs are the biggest problem and it just needs a tweak for usability like a secondary firing mode that makes it a full auto gun like the Fracture and Raven but still with the option to charge it in it's primary firing mode.

The thing is, as I said before, why should I get dual Vortex when a Lancer is cheaper, doesn't need resources, doesn't have a cooldown and fulfills the same role much better?

The problem is that they made it an identical weapon to the Lancer, as it is now the Lancer is the obvious choice but they can't buff the Vortex because it would be OP, they should completely change the Vortex mechanic to fill another niche IMO.

For me, it's about the alpha strike. What do vehicles do when they're being hit? They try to move behind cover or high tail it. If they're stationary, I like to hit them with a big hit then single the rest. I find I'm a lot more successful when I employ the alpha strike charge instead of single charging.

Much the same as the other empire alternatives. You get a much larger ammo pool and can deal a lot more damage and take a lot more damage while doing it. If I'm AV'ing, I find I'm considerably more effective in a MAX suit than as an HA. For you, it may be the other way around.

If I ever have 2k certs to blow I'll think about it.

Or if they do a 50% off 2x Vortex bundle. That'd be a cool sale. 2x new AV arms bundle for each empire.

Otherwise my Comets are fine. and only cost me 250 certs

If I was NC, I think I'd go Falcon over Raven just due to cost. DPS wise they're pretty close though misses hurt Falcon users a lot more, and they don't guide.

TR, while their Fractures make all other factions drool, cost 2k certs or 1.4k SC to acquire, and their 250 cert Pounder option is pretty poor (though it also has high DPS if you can actually max it and hit your targets reliably)

As Purg already pointed out, the Vortex has a lot more ammo capacity, especially if you're using charged shots. You can potentially eliminate half a tank zerg before you need to search out an ammo pack and why throw away a perfectly fine MAX suit while you're in it? You also don't get killed by a single tank shell while in a MAX and don't have to stay in cover after every single shot to let your shield regenerate from infantry fire. Just run with auto repair, evade clusters of enemy infantry and you'll be in the field until your ammo runs dry.

Granted it has the downside of not being quite as long range as the Lancer but having enough firepower to take down one Sunderer with a bit to spare (Lancer) vs taking down 10 Sunderers sure makes a difference if you're in a good position.

Well, I'm assuming you play in a team and thus have an engineer giving ammo packs, the ammo is rarely an issue to me when I'm lancering. The problem I see now with the Vortex is that it can't do something different than the other options, the Lancer is the best for sniping as you pointed out from the better range it has, the Comet is better for close ranges and also lets you defend from infantry. The range where the Vortex is the best option is very limited and isn't worth the 2k certs imo.