[Suggestion] Vortek rotary is overpowered, buff vs and tr rotaries.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Ballto21, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Silkensmooth

    Wrong thread, but i agree.
  2. Ronin Oni

    well this thread is inane and deserves to be hijacked to support something that would actually benefit ESF air combat.
    • Up x 2
  3. Jawarisin

    My bet is I'm a better pilot than you, but aside from that; sure. We'll both hold "Space" and "W" or don't hold W, I don't care.

    But I'm starting to think your not worth my time if you seriously think reaver or scythe is faster than mossie.
  4. DashRendar

    Did you actually read the post you quoted from me?
  5. zaspacer

    Jawarisin, as Ronin Oni and I both posted, Top Speed of just "w" is not a useful stat. W + V-Thrust (+ angle of Roll) determines fastest non-AB boosted level speed, and W + V-Thrust + AB (+ angle of Roll) determines fastest level speed. ESF type determines Dive Speed Caps.

    Racer 3 Scythe is faster than Stock Mosquito:

    w + space
    Scythe w/ Racer 3: 263
    Mosquito (stock): 246

    w + space + upside down
    Scythe w/ Racer 3: 266
    Mosquito (stock): 248

    w + space + afterburner
    Scythe w/ Racer 3: 352
    Mosquito (stock): 329

    w + space + upside down + afterburner
    Scythe w/ Racer 3: 361
    Mosquito (stock): 333

    Racer 3 Scythe can hit higher speeds in a Dive than Stock Mosquito too.

    I don't know about Acceleration numbers.

    I don't know what this means.

    Are you saying that only players that never extend or expose themselves are the good ones? Does any player never extend or expose themselves? Almost any player doing A2G is going to be extending and exposing themselves.
  6. zaspacer


    You indicated the Reaver was slower as "it plays out". The Reaver is the fastest ESF, and I want readers/posters to be working from accurate information. Hence the correction.

    If you didn't mean that Reaver was slower, then please shift my critique to clarifying for others the Reaver speed, and relating to you that I find your post confusing instead.
  7. Czarinov

    You're taking it too literally.

    What I mean is one needs to keep looking up and around while doing mentioned a2g for example. Knowing where friendly support is and where he can retreat / where can enemy aircraft appear. Also one must listen to the sound of enemy ESFs / LIBs. It's harder when you're going a2g, but not impossible.

    Also "let have a jump" means a successful one. If you manage to turn towards your attacker and start dealing at least some damage, the jump's already not completely successful.
  8. zaspacer

    Cool. :)

    I tend to read things more literally, unless there is has explicit nuance notations. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I agree that experienced A2G involves keeping strong situational awareness. Personally, I have the biggest problems during A2G when an enemy hunting Gank Squad or Ace shows up unexpectedly, especially when they're from the Faction not even present in the battle. _| ̄|○
  9. grazr

    What are you smoking, i want some. Reaver is the slowest, though it has the consolation of fastest afterburners. Base cruise goes to mossie, in fact before the latest ESF patch a stock mossie could out pace a racer 3 frame reaver.

    AH is not a solid AI weapon, mossies can AI at 150m with explosive shells, Reaver has to shotgun at 25m where a blind moose could dumbfire a pube off your butt crack.
  10. zaspacer

    Reaver has the fastest potential level top speed at 373 (Reaver w/ Racer 3), and the Stock Reaver (Reaver w/ no Airframe) still has level top speed of 358 that can outrun the fastest Mossie and can keep pace with the fastest Scythe. It also has Amazing acceleration potential which allows it to control the options of getting into Hover or getting into Top Speed to chase down an running opponent.

    And it can use its top level speed and acceleration to ensure it can dictate range. This is how it can keep the Vortek Rotary or AH in effective range vs. enemy ESFs. This is also why Reaver Gank squads don't need A2AM to deal with running enemy ESFs: because they can chase them down. In contrast, Scythe Gank Squads often use A2AM, because they cannot keep up with running enemy ESFs.

    It's the Reaver's ability to hit superior top speeds quickly that makes it the king of speed in forcing ESF duels. In forcing ESF duels, overall Top speed (or A2AM) is king.

    As a solo player, who plays in all Faction ESFs, I know that Reaver is the only ESF that I cannot reliably outrun.

    "Cruise Speed" is handy for getting to destinations faster without jeopardizing Afterburner supply. While you can use it to close toward target without wasting Afterburner, you typically don't want to use higher speed when actually reaching target because you want to be able to slow and control range to target (not overshoot it).

    This is true.

    But while it was changed so Reaver w/ Racer 3 now has faster Cruise Speed than Stock Mosquito. They didn't change it so Mosquito w/ Racer 3 has faster Top Speed than Stock Reaver.

    w + space + afterburner
    Mosquito w/ Racer 3: 353
    Reaver (stock): 354

    w + space + upside down + afterburner
    Mosquito w/ Racer 3: 357
    Reaver (stock): 358

    WTF is that?

    Top Cruise Speed is not going to matter in an ESF duel. Top Speed *is* going to matter, and Reaver is king in level Top Speed.

    AH is a very effective weapon in players with very good aim and movement skill.

    It can take on Maxs, which LPPA and Banshee cannot do. And it also performs better than the LPPA and Banshee vs. enemy ESFs (though it needs to be able to dictate Range vs. ESF targets). While it has to be closer to targets to engage them, it's superior time-to-kill on those targets reduces its risk by reducing exposure time and also enabling the Reaver to not-Hover as much or as long while engaging.

    Where AH struggles is in the hands of players with lower skill in aiming and movement. These players cannot put bullets on target, and compromise the weapons ttk and subsequent ability to be effective while reducing exposure and using minimal hover. Lower skilled players in aim and movement will also struggle to use AH vs. Max and ESF targets.

    LPPA is a very good Weapon vs. Inafntry, though it has a hard time vs. Enemy ESFs. Banshee is now weak and TR players are better off using Hellfire Rocket Pods as their AI.
    • Up x 1
  11. MasterTater

    Thats absolute nonsense. Take a look at a scythe from below and from top and compare it to the Reaver´s overall hitbox from all sides and you will see that the Scythe has the largest hitbox from those positions which is constantly facing ground enemies or to a reaver which uses the upward lift maneuver and attacks from above.

    Additionally the high alpha dmg which kills an unaware enemy aircraft down to 30% health before it can even move or react is broken OP.

    But I bet you are one of those forum war trolls anyway - which kick every reasonable argument into the sand with a flood of false or deceptive arguments to keep the mostly NC typical unfair OP advantages.
  12. Trebb

    Yep, this is why I don't seriously fly in this game. You die too fast to these skyknights using their min/max ESF setups that pretty much kill you before you can even finish turning around. Also for some reason reaver sound is still bugged, and by the time I hear them it's too late. I can hear other mossies / scythes for MILES.

    Speed is irrelevant, with the AB bonus, you can catch *anyone* regardless of airframe.

    And yes, I flew around on test in a reaver during the 'fly a while for a free helmet', and spent several hours one clipping people, and easily escaping over and over. Was tons easier than my mossie.
  13. Cz4rMike

    That wasn't absolute nonsense. However your post might be.

    1. Area coverage

    Scythe might have the biggest coverage, however compared to Reaver it's 8% bigger. Even worse, the "heart" of scythe might be harder to hit when it flies perpendicular to you compared to Reaver. The only perspective that one can argue about Scythe being easier to hit is TOP profile, but that opinion is wrong anyway.

    2. Any other profile of scythe is definitely thinner compared to Mossi or Reaver.

    3. As ground you won't get the chance to fire at Scythe from the top or bottom. Unless it's a) a hovering noob, b) someone caught of guard. In both cases and at close range it doesn't even matter what shape ESF is. The reality is you will be firing g2a at esf at load of different angles but from top / bottom.

    4. Vortek rotary's DPM = 750 RPM * 320 = 240k;
    M18 rotary's DPM = 1000 RPM * 200 = 200k;

    The difference of 40k DPM is arguably negligible. What it is not: it is definitely NOT broken OP.

    5. I fly Mossi the most, seldom Reaver. Reaver is balanced towards Mossi.
  14. Rhumald

    There's an old thread discussing hit boxes:


    I'm going to go ahead and ignore the basis of the rest of your argument. In a fair fight where both pilots are aware of each other before the fighting begins, the Scyth has the clear hitbox advantage if it can keep it's enemy in it's sites, followed very closely by the mossy, which has an arguably all round smaller hitbox, making it easier to perform complex rolling and pitching dodges, and then the reaver is just all round big. (S=64k M=65k R=74k)

    Tie to that the fact that the Reaver only has the highest speed with AB pods, lowest speed if it's decided to roll with any secondary weapon, as most pilots do now, and your entire argument is completely invalid; Reavers, and any ESF, really, will probably score the kill if their enemy wasn't aware of them, and they got in close enough to make maneuvering out of their sites impossible. Reavers will just do that a little bit faster. Any ESF with AB pods is probably playing with stealth, so they can do just that, and most if not all craft they target will die to them, so long as they keep the element of surprise, and then escape the hot zone as soon as they've scored the kill. This remains true regardless of which chassis they chose, and which faction you play.
  15. MasterTater

    Your described situation hardly ever fits rteality that both players are aware of each other. Relating to other posts made - the Reaver has the highest chance to assault other aircrfafts undetected by the massive speed to assault into an enemy ESF before they can even get an orientation on where the shots - taking down their aircraft to 25% health are coming from.

    Guess we have another NC fanboy here which wants to keep his unbalanced OP gear by completely ***** over valid statements by not going into the details and ignoring data easily available to any serious discussion partner.
  16. MasterTater


    Your statement is invalid - The majority of incoming dmg is from Flag which completely ignores the detail shape of the aircraft leaving the Scythe with the largest hitbox to hit from ground air defense. So my statement is absolutely valid under real ingame circumstances.
  17. Rhumald

    See, that's where I call ********. You say it's rare that both are ever aware of each other, but at the same time you think the super loud reaver has a better chance at ambushing other craft. I can tell you without a doubt that if any ESF gets the drop on another ESF, and they're using their faction's fastest firing nose gun, they have a very large chance of obliterating the other craft entirely. I've had it happen to me, and you just sit there going "no way it does damage that fast man..."

    If you personally struggle with this, Try racer, fully certed stealth (removes you from ennemy engagement radar and auto map spot), and engagement radar (because few people run stealth). Fly low, fast, around your enemy forces, and surprise attack one of their craft. It won't stand a chance unless they're really, really good. You don't even need the racer, so if you prefer another frame, go with it, racer and AB just makes it easier to leave the hot zone once you've taken out a craft.
  18. Jamuro

    While it's true that the reaver's roatary has the highest burst, it also has the smallest clip and longest reload time of the rotaries (see bottom why this is important)

    Actually i think esf fights are the most forgiving when it comes to being ambushed.

    Let's compare it:

    infantry same class 1on1
    whoever manages to surprise the other quy wins within less than 2 seconds usually (if the server doesn't hate your guts)

    same tank loadout 1on1
    if you manage to get a hit into your enemies back, or hit him while he was firing on something else and therefore is at best in a reload (worst case he has tunnelvision and does even take longer to react) basically gurantees you a win.
    Sure the hp don't go down as fast as with esf's ... but tanks are a lot less mobile and evading someone who was able to sneak up on you is almost impossible.

    esf vs esf
    if the attacker manages to land an extreme % of his shots (compared to the %tage of shots you will land during an "normal" engagement) you will be at a big disadvantage.
    But as you might have seen in many of those youtube montages, this does not automatically mean that you ll lose.
    Survive the first clip and you will have turned around and started firing back before he even has finished his reload cycle.
    add fire sup's +20% heal (more if you actually were burning) to that and you still have a fighting chance ... or at least can concentrate on evading in the hopes that your buddies help you out.

    Sure getting ambushed sucks ... but in an esf vs esf engagement you actually have better chances than in any other area of this game.

    But hey maybe i got something wrong ... i am sure people will gladly correct me :)
  19. Cz4rMike

    yeah.... that doesnt work like that ;). Only because YOU say it doesnt magically make it right.

    PS i just desribed you real ingame circumstances... if only you read thoroughly and learnt :).

    Guess we have an anti NC fanboy, even more a Scythe fanboy "pilot" who never got past newbie phase. serious discussion... you wouldnt know whats what, man :)
  20. Colinljx

    You guys are all overly focused on ESF 1v1, while the hidden problem is Reaver being much more powerful than Mossi/Scythe against non-ESF. Vortek's much higher damage output (20% higher DPM & slight damage drop off advantage) than VS's hailstorm & TR's rotary makes it superior at taking down big/slow targets like liberator and galaxy.