[Suggestion] Vortek rotary is overpowered, buff vs and tr rotaries.

it would help by giving them near equal weaponry to defend against such a threat, the same way everyone has the same shotguns to start, snipers are carbon copies, and so on. For the most part newer people have equivalent or near as good weapons between the classes and factions, carbines being a non carbon copy example, a trac 5 can do just as well against a serpent

As I said in game and others have said in this thread, the hitboxes are not "near equal" and may never be. Since release I think we all have hoped that the Reaver hitbox would become smaller or that others would become larger, but there is no sign of that beginning to happen. The Vortek is a shotgun disguised as a rotary cannon, its range is shorter than the other faction rotaries. If you want to have the Vorteks power so bad, be prepared to adopt also its downsides.

The Reaver needs the Vortek because it's like that training scene from Top Gun "The jets you are flying against are smaller, faster, and more maneuverable" It may not look that way from the stats, but that's the way it plays out, because due to hitboxes and bullet saturation differences between factions, it's harder for an NC to land shots on enemy planes than it is for the reverse to happen.

The real trouble comes when you begin to realize that even the current Vortek doesn't compensate for the hitbox of the Reaver, because it's only a band-aid to the real problem. But it's something.

Only if they survive, but in the scenario you described the OP it was players not being able to react in time.

And VS have faster velocity and faster reload, while TR have faster ROF and extra bullets/damage per magazine. Those are all useful stats, particularly for getting bullets on fast moving targets.

Yes, after you mentioned it.

They are beginners. Beginners of PS2 get killed without a chance to do anything back as infantry and tanks too. Everything they try for the first time, it is likely that they die without much of a fight.
With air it just takes longer to get out of that valley of death. Not much of a problem, because when you do climb out, air is the most powerful and versatile there is.

With one Maneuver he's faster and only during his Afterburner?

RM should give an advantage, sure, but other maneuvers should be able to give similar advantages. Different tactics and playstyles should be possible during a single battle, each with advantages and disadvantages over the other tactics. This "one tactic fits all" mentality is bad for the air-gameplay.

Also, for those interested:
Reaver cruise speed (hover frame): 199
Reaver Afterburn speed (hover frame): 348
Reaver cruise speed (racer frame): 232
Reaver Afterburn speed (racer frame): 364
(while the other empires had rounded numbers the Reaver somehow didn't get them even though I never moved my mouse after spawning, consider it an anomaly and assume the numbers to be rounded up to 5 or 0)

Mosquito cruise speed (hover frame): 220
Mosquito Afterburn speed (hover frame): 319
Mosquito cruise speed (racer frame): 250
Mosquito Afterburn speed (racer frame): 345

scythe cruise speed (hover frame): 200
Scythe Afterburn speed (hover frame): 320
scythe cruise speed (racer frame): 235
Scythe Afterburn speed (racer frame): 345


The Reaver has the highest and longest afterburner, but is also a brick in both build and maneuverability unless the RM maneuver is used, which is maneuverability based on hover+afterburn capabilities, which is one of the few things the Reaver shines in.

Unlike what some others said, the Scythe has similar Cruise Speeds as the Reaver but the lowest Afterburn speed as well as the shortest afterburn speed.

Additionally, speed and AB speed are not balanced against each other, as maneuverability is also part of that balance. It's a triage that originally was supposed to be a quintage (if that's a thing) of speed, AB speed, "attack" speed (which was speed gained when the nose pointed down, the Reaver was supposed to have the highest attack speed as it was supposed to be advantageous for quick hit&runs, they hadn't thought of the hover-gameplay that erupted later), and lastly armor, the Reaver was supposed to have the most armor but the biggest and slowest frame to go with it.

NVM

Mossie fast and Reaver slow? Reaver is faster than Mossie. Scythe is slower than both (in most cases).

No effective primary AI? AH is a solid weapon if you have the skill to use it.

Fastest firing guns? What does that mean? VS has the fastest velocity Noseguns in the game, with Saron Laser Cannon and Antares LC both firing at 800 m/s. And NC has the highest DPS.

Nobody decent (when trying to go fast) flies at just Cruise Speed. They fly at Cruise Speed + V-Thrust. Same goes for After Burner: they use V-Thrust there as well. And the smarter people know that flying Sideways or Upside Down boosts speed too.

Redo your numbers to include V-Thrust and V-Thrust + Upside Down.

Accelerating while maintaining a level altitude, a Scythe can hit 361 while a Mossie can only hit 357. While a Reaver can hit 373.

And in a dive, a Scythe can break 400 (I've done 433 so far, though I crashed)

yes but they do have tools as infantry and tanks to be just as good in theory

Got sniped? Oh, i can get the same one and shoot back

Killed by a gd7f? My dreaded trac 5 no attachments will let me survive!

and so on, not many infantry weapons have a ttk faster than most people can react without something relatively equal for new players to reasonably be able to fight back.

no, i saying, that ace pilots has no mercy. there players who only flying 24\7 and there players like me - who can fly, but i have no time and patience to reach same level of "top pilots".

... so you want to NERF the Reaver and then buff the Scythe and Mossie??


top kek bro.

Lowering AB speed and raising cruise speed would be a HUGE nerf to the Reaver, who excels at close range fighting, particularly ganking (also why it makes that freedom engine scree noise.... to give other pilots a rats chance in hell of avoiding near instant ganks).

It kinda seems like you don't really fly, or if you do, that you really don't understand the advantages of the Reaver.

ESF balance is pretty fine, and changing the Reaver as you suggest, without also changing it's weapon systems to be more accurate and less DPS, and it's hitbox to be slimmer, would be a straight up nerf.

Right now things are pretty well Assymetrically balanced, and if your only thought is even further homonogization of this barely assymetric game then **** off.

lol wat?

They do.
Racer 3 Scythe cruise is slower than stock Mossie

Also, when you take Hover, you add that extra V-Thrust to forward speed anyways... Racer ONLY affects top speed while ABing, the cruise speed buff only matches the V-Thrust buff, so that Racer isn't flat out worse and just usually worse (really, only Vortek and AH Reavers with fuel pods should use Racer)

Umm no, it has a 25 rnd mag that upgrades to 33 at max.
It isnt easy to aim the thing, its also in accurate.

The ttk isnt much higher on the other rotaries

Get better awarness before complaining.

Also reaver is the biggest plane of the 3 so its the easiest to 1 mag kill, not to mention the scythe rotary has 10 more rounds and no bullet drop so it can be used at mid/long range, and the tr rotary has nearly 2x the mag size and a ttk differance of about .4 seconds...

So yeah wanna tell me why again the vortek needs a nerf?

Also if you buff the other rotary cannons the other nose guns in the game would be worthless (with exception of the ppa #farmlife)

If you want, we can make a bet on it. we'll start on one side of the map. Then we both only hold W and see who goes the fastest.

Ok, scythe is definately the best plane unless you are incredibly good and then the vortek can be very good.

The guns are balanced. Vortek is the best rotary ttk wise, thats true, but it also has the lowest mag. Why that matters is because it gives you less time to refine your aim. It requires more precision.

A vortek pilot has to be up close and personal to kill you. Its not difficult when you are a good pilot to maintain enough range via the reverse maneuver to negate the power of the vortek.

The reaver has the largest hitbox from every direction when you think of it in terms of traight lines.

The Scythe flat side is actually difficult to hit because the straight lines are short and very narrow. The longest straight line on a scythe is from the tip of the crab claw to the back which is a very narrow strip of plane and its easier to dodge incoming fire by rolling in the scythe due to the necessity of firing on the edges. Otherwise you are trying to shoot a very short line along the center which is more difficult to do than hitting either of the other planes.

Reavers and mossies have continuous lines from the tip to tail that run along the centerline of the plane. It is much easier to hit a longer line because the more difficult aspect of aiming an aircraft is the pitch axis control not the yaw control.

To take advantage of the scythe hitbox you have to be coming at them from aboveor below and the from the side, and even then if the scythe rolls you will get the slim profile whereas the reaver and mosquito are fairly uniform in size when rolling.

Theoretical ttks are not the reality of flying. Unless you are hovering and farming infantry it is very unlikely that you will experience the fastest TTK. In a real dogfight accuracy and evasion are the most important things. Vortek has the best TTK and the worst accuracy due to its lack of mag size which as ive said is a disadvantage because with more ammo you have more time to adjust your aim. With the vortek you are out of ammo so fast that by the time you adjust your aim you have missed half of your shots.Unless you are really good.

Anyway, you admit that you are not a good pilot, and this will likely skew your perception.

only an idiot flies with only 'W'

V-Thrust is ALWAYS on unless you're maneuvering through tight spaces (through tree branches/under tech plant landing pad/etc) and AB is commonly used to reduce travel time, though not in a way to leave them empty at destination. (basic knowledge)

Also, once you achieve max speed, you don't even need 'W' anymore.

Do you even fly?

Yeah i have my ascend button set to h and i hold it down with my pinky constantly when flying.

As ronin said in a plane the only way to slow down is to use the brakes, the plane doesnt lose speed when you take hand off throttle. Plus you can use numlock to auto accelerate.

If you roll on your side and use ascend you will go about 18 kph faster than without ascend.

Also i have done extensive tesing of the speeds of ESF. Mosquito is the fastest, reaver is second fastest, and scythe is the slowest.

In a 4 kilometer race the mosquito was 2 secs faster than the reaver and the reaver was 2 secs faster than the scythe.

The name of the thread was 'buff afterburners' im too lazy to find a link to it.

... 'h'?? With your pinky???

wat.

IJKL movement?

I just hold spacebar with thumb, works great for me

Is that time trial with or without AB fuel tanks and w/ or w/o Racer 3?

I'm pretty sure over distance Racer 3 fuel tanks Reaver is the fastest.

In a short engagement, it's definitely the fastest where you often don't get a chance for multiple full burns (it happens though... I've been chased all the way to WG before in various ESFs)

Really, the speed difference isn't enough that anyone flat out outruns anyone else...

the Reaver has the most bursty movement though, so it quickly closes or extends the gap and then becomes the slowest for a short bit while recharging, that plays well with it's Vortek.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/buff-afterburners.199209/

This is the link to the thread i made all the times are in there. Mosquito is fastest with and without AB tanks. The mosquito without AB tanks is faster over 4km than a scythe WITH AB tanks.

Yeah, I know about the Scythes piss poor speed performance.

It's got that lovely hitbox though

EDIT: And yeah, dropping a mere 3 seconds off a 4k distance for fuel tanks is pathetic. Fuel tanks need buffing.

They DON'T need to nerf non-fuel ESF, just buff fuel tanks efficiency. MUCH longer burn time (w/ matching buff to recharge), even faster AB speed, and/or maybe even faster CRUISE speed (consider less weight for not having secondary weapons. 60+ rockets must weigh a TON! xD )