[VIDEO] The pathetic state on Connery air game.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by KO-tic, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. Ronin Oni

    Uhm, as a lone A2G bomber aircraft, you shouldn't be able to...

    That's kinda the point everyone is making.
  2. zaspacer

    For me it doesn't really matter if the farmer is 1 Ace Reaver, 2 Medium Level Mosquitos with headset, or a swarm of bad pilots with lockons. They're all camping the areas deep inside enemy territory and Ganking ESFs. And because of the range ESFs can cover, this ends up locking down Air for entire regions, or even Continents on a lower pop Continent/Faction.

    I just logged in and there are 2 Mosquitos hanging just out of the Warpgate to Gank players on a low Pop Faction. I lived and made it back to my Warpgate. Since I have no way to find the ally Air Zerg (if there even is one), I am gonna now either switch to a different Continent, a different Server, or log in as TR on that Continent. (because I want to grind Certs on this character, I am gonna try a different Continent, if that fails I will log in as TR on the Continent with those Mosquitos)

    I get that ESFs can farm other ESFs, and that is fine. Farming is what this game is about. But it's the ESFs coverage range, ability to operate safely deep in enemy territory, and total lack of communications method for faction pilots on the same Continent, that starts to cause a problem for me. It's bad for the game because it makes it too easy to shut down most air on a faction, and it's bad for the flavor of the game because it's no longer about mixed units on the battlefronts or fighting for your side's progression.
    • Up x 1
  3. Brahma2


    No part of this game is about "your side's progression," and in my experience, there's no battlefronts either. Enemies can be anywhere, at any time, when it comes to the vehicle game. Infantry players fight over bases but no one particularly cares who wins territory. It doesn't matter at all. You get the exact same resources no matter what you do.

    I liked the previous resource system so it at least punished you when you died, and air zergs were too bad to last. Now they can pull repeatedly all they like, with weapons that don't have to be aimed. That is a problem.
  4. WaaWaa

    Connery air is awful or downright amateur.
  5. Brahma2


    Only when you're in the air ;)
  6. JoeBobPete

    The infamous Don Alfrago and his merry band of misfits. Every pilot on Connery knows him. I've run with his squad with my VS alt (only lasted two days, Vanu types are just weird).

    Great strategist and leader actually. Lots of tactical retreats, feints, mobility. Everyone stays alive long enough to keep resources replenished. He has shown it is possible to be highly effective with a modicum of piloting skill.

    I have run with Mkgrider (NC) in a counter gank squad, and it was also quite effective in shutting them down. Adapt or perish.
    • Up x 3
  7. Mythologicus


    That's the guy. I have heard that he's a good leader, but this doesn't really change my opinion of his group's 'contribution' to fights anywhere or his insistence on completely turning the late-night airgame stale, one continent at a time.
  8. Munq

    And that is why you don't even try to play with aircrafts solo. The frustration is real. If you are solo/small squad, stick to ground. You need platoon and fleet of friendly aircrafts if you want to even hope to stay alive in lib.
  9. Brahma2

    Replace "knows" with hates.

    No, it's highly effective if you run lockons in a large group and are against an enemy you outnumber 3 to 1. Otherwise his squad would/does get slaughtered. Problem is with the resource system as it is, it doesn't matter if they wipe completely, they can just stay up. Is an issue with server smash as well.

    Because never improving and being stagnant while getting 1 kill an hour is the way to go. There's hardly even any targets, it is complete overkill; if he wants to run a zerg like he does, at least go to a server where there are targets to kill instead of being a *****. Also I'm pretty sure Mkrider wasn't running a lockon squad.
  10. Shadowyc

    Is it not true that victory must be achieved at any cost? And that making players leave the game for good is a victory for whatever faction you play as?
  11. iller

    oh god this guy ... king of the blind invites. Then it usually ends up being a Havoc squad or something else equally disgusting.

    When Emerald players say Connery Air is bad, they are exactly right. Especially when it comes to the zergfits like Jenk/T4 & LibN. Both of them only have 1 honorable pilot among them
  12. zaspacer

    I agree that "faction progression" or even "outfit progression"/"squad progression" aren't focused on in the game.

    I don't agree that there are no battlefronts, at least not for ground. I use my Big Map and filters to locate the fronts and farm there. I agree there are no Air battlefronts, except where they are piggybacking or farming a ground battlefront.

    Players prefer good farming over winning, but winning is also enjoyed.

    I did not and do not like the old Resources System. It prompted faction overpop as joining the overpop ensured faster Resources. And it motivated players to leave desired battles as needed to pursue Resource gain at otherwise dead (but faction controlled) Continents.

    I agree that they should augment base/Continent capture to provide incentive, and tying it to a cumulative beneficial thing is good, but I do not think Resources (at least how it was done before) are good in that role. Admittedly, it's complicated to try to discover a system that can juggle multiple continents, different levels of server faction population, etc. and to balance it into a system that promotes base/Continent capture, but also promotes "good" battles... but I think it's doable.

    The first step, is to identify behavior or gameplay you want. Motivate players to fight in underpop battles (either in the ally base under attack or to create a counterattack from ally bases behind it)? Motivate (but not force) players into more evenly populated battles? Motivate players to take a Continent BUT ALSO EQUALLY not allow another Continent t be taken? Motivate players to even out faction populations? Identify the behavior that you/other players/SOE wants to see, and I (we) can build a system that makes it happen. (NOTE: ideally it won't have mutually exclusive elements in it, but that can be designed for too) But I need a comprehensive list. It's unrealistic for players/SOE to expect the right changes to happen, if they can't specific what they want to see/experience/etc. (and don't only focus on what you want, include what other groups are thought/known to want)

    I've run with him once in a Squad, a couple days ago. Good guy, great communication, careful but takes good opportunities, very open to strangers but not forceful. When I was with him, we were not flying behind enemy lines, but actually helping out in VS Battlefronts.

    They were very mobile when I was with them, and I eventually wandered off on my own to get stuck in at a specific front.
  13. IronRoids

    Can't believe I am gonna reply to this thread but here it goes nonetheless.

    1) This is a Connery specific problem... Gank squad on other servers are sad compared to this monstrosity (that's a compliment other servers) this is an air squad with one objective purpose to warp gate every other factions air. Sounds like a tough job but Connery's pop is down to one full continent prime time and another that unlocked so not a lot of people; and relatively speaking it effects 70%ish of your live population (at that given time - also pulling numbers from my *** but there's only two continents and they exist on the higher populated one so its least 51%, you get the point). So even if your populace was to respond there is only so many that know how to fly in the game or only so many that care to fly. Their goal of only killing air also renders your "pull a skyguard" pro-tip useless because they aren't here to ground pound, they only fly (as in flight ceiling high GG useless sky guard).

    2) Why is this gank squad so special? Intelligent and aggressive, not highly skilled by any means but most of the swarm is competent enough to mitigate damage and maximize the amount of damage on target. Ohh and its bigger, at its smallest its 12 people at its largest its nearly a platoon (not lying seen it with my eyes and its terrifying). They often split off into smaller groups blanketing the whole continent until enemy air is found then converge and snuff it out.

    3) Well what does this mean? WELL IT MEANS the other factions aren't banding up into air squads to fight because ace pilots from those factions have quit, they were here to fly and now that they cant even do that they are gone for good. The new pilots aren't learning from being gibbed by lockons, there is no chance to respond no chance to position yourself in a place to learn. Some people do successfully get a counter air squad up but its often full of very angry inexperience players; flying takes a while to learn and hours count and so if the only environment you can learn as a new guy is in a giant air squad of your own, your learning is going to be very limited because of the lack of the occurrence and the lack of pure air to air fighting.
    TLDR gank squad kills new players and old alike so fast they dont even care to fight it.

    This translates into pure and utter air dominance from VS which is compounded by the fact that all your ground forces can freely pull air and have galaxies up 24/7 and libs and so on letting them ground pound at will. Giving your forces more mobility and tactical flexibility. Your ground cant help in the air fight because that half platoon to platoon or air is at flight ceiling going to town on whatever the enemy decided to pull. To put the cherry on top of it all all those vs ground-pounding are learning to fly further putting you and yours behind the eight ball.

    4) This is just an example of other issue in the game with the lack of proper resource and meta thus not giving air any objectives than kill each other or farm ground. If ants and Nantes were valuable commodities to be transported and there were air specific goals in the game you would begin to see a balance of pilots out of necessity in order to advance your factions territories, front line resources etc...etc because air is the most fluid and flexible of all resources most suited to the checks and balances role. However air is currently in the troll or be trolled role which is toxic, lacks skill or fun, and leads to awful experiences.

    My perspective on the air as it stands on Connery
    • Up x 3
  14. Taemien

    This isn't something that just started recently. I saw those shifts 2 years ago. Everyone got up into the air. Some got good with it and pushed out everyone else and then focused A2G. Those days were horrendous, even if we didn't know it at the time. Well horrendous by today's standards.

    Point is, those cycles happen because the game changes. Back in those early days.. AA was a default launcher that you hopefully hit with and a single burster arm. No one had enough certs to buy the ES Air Lockon or the second burster and we weren't sure if SC was worth spending on such options.

    But fast forward to today and we have a different game. ESFs can't kill ground as well as before. They can do it, but not like before. But alot of Ace pilots stopped flying. The reason why is they can't do anything to people on a control point. That was that role thing I spoke about before. I'll get into that a bit later.



    A 2/3 Lib and 3 ESFs vs 5 ESFs might be a different story. 5v1 gets the one torn up. 5v5 is quite a bit more even. And there's the whole thing of those 5 gankers aren't taking points and contributing to an alert victory. They can't stop a Platoon set of Galaxies after all.

    Again it is PVP where another players' actions can and will impact your gameplay. Just like your actions can potentially affect their's. I mean how is this different then you taking a base. Say I own the crown and wish to fight from there. Well you take a platoon and take it from me. I can't spawn there anymore. And if I happen to really want to, you just negatively impacted my game play. How is someone ganking someone outside their warpgate different?

    The only difference I see is location. But why should location matter?



    I've played with outfits that focus on being the deciding force behind winning an alert. That is fun. When you can drop with 12-24 people, take a base from a platoon and fight them off till it caps with nothing more than a Galaxy or two, and your teamwork to hold you in. That is fun and a style of game play everyone should try at least once.

    Granted its much too fast paced for everyone to do all the time. But you can still do small unit tactics, or other means of engaging the enemy for an alert win. Why do we have to be motivated by a ticking up number we call certs?

    When I played MechWarrior 3 back in the 90s, we didn't get anything for winning except a "Your Team Wins". But that was good enough. Why isn't that good enough here?

    What is wrong with Greifing in a PVP game? As long as it is done to an opponent, I don't see how this is a problem. And I don't see Area Denial as actually griefing. It serves a purpose, just like taking a base. Where do you draw the line for griefing?

    Is it when you take on someone 5v1 near their warpgate? What if its a territory away? Or two, or three? What if its a 4v1 or a 2v1... maybe 1v1. Why not a 1v1 in a contested zone? I mean sometimes when you kill someone 'fairly' it upsets them. When does competitive gaming become greifing?

    When I was in Recursion a while back, we used to run air squads to deny an enemy air across the continent. Back then we could wipe them out enough to where they couldn't pull more air because they were out of resources. Now because of the Nanite change.. to do the same thing, you have to be even more aggressive and skilled to pull that off.

    I mean have you even asked what these gankers' reasoning behind it is? I don't think anyone here has. And even if they ARE doing it merely to upset others'. I do things all the time to rile up my opponents. Angered opponents make mistakes, sometimes they rage quit. This makes my other goals and those of my team easier. So to me, its valid as long as we're all playing by the rules. Which everyone in these examples are.



    This is an MMO. You need the right skills, the right tools, and the right people for the job if you wish to be successful. Basically it comes down to these three things:

    1. What you know
    2. What you have
    3. Who you know

    Number 1 is what most call 'Skill' at the game. As you can see, it is only a 1/3 of your success.

    Number 2 is what gear you have. In many MMOs this is from PVPing and Raiding. Here its certs and SC getting you the right weapons and tools. You wouldn't use an AI mine against a tank for example.

    Number 3 is the most overlooked. Its who you know. This is your friends, your guild/outfit, group/squad, ect. Its playing with the right group of people. Yeah VOIP gives huge advantages. You have 100% of what you need (assuming you have the skill and gear comparable to your enemy) while your opponent has 66%

    Players are rewarded with tools and benefits for working together. Otherwise we'd all solo. Why not just play a single player game or a game where we can just 1v1 each other if we're not going to work as a team?

    You don't even need a big team. I frequently run with a 4 man squad. We do amazing stuff and can focus on things larger groups can't afford to. We play a damn good role in attacking some bases and objectives (like generators in large bases) to help our faction win alerts.

    I've experienced these gank squads first hand. They give me quite a bit of certs from my bursters. Sorry to say, but they are NOT unstoppable.



    Galaxies don't need escorts. They can literally fly from WG to their objective and drop their load nearly all the time. The issue is that ESF and Lib have NO role outside cert farming. The gank squads are using them for the only role they have. As I said before 90% of control points are inside. There's no destructible roofs. And no real way to affect the battle except to bombard clueless zerging players.

    And ironically got farmed himself. How do you think a 1/2 MBT driver would have felt if located by the OP's Lib? Helpless and unable to do anything. Much like the OP felt when ganked.

    Nothing wrong with either IMO. Farmers farming certs get farmed by farmers farming certs. If farming certs is the style of play you choose, prepared to be farmed in return. The other playstyle is to go for objectives and alert wins. Don't worry about getting in 'useless' vehicles to nab a few kills. Worry about how to get on point ASAP and cap it.

    You're starting to see what PVP is all about. Ruthless competitive play. Not recommended for casual non-competitive players. In other games they'd be called 'carebears'.


    When more players are focusing on objectives. There is little to no air to worry about. So they HAVE to go to ground targets in order to have something to shoot at. So yeah Bursters will be a major problem. Especially those certed in their MAXes like mine.

    You will never see anyone posting how they enjoyed being killed by anything. Everything has been requested to be nerfed or fixed at some point or another. If SOE followed forumside to the letter. We'd have a PVE game with easy to kill AI. That's not the game I signed up to play in November 2012.

    The game I signed up to play was one where you need the right skill, the right tool, and the right people for the job. It was open world PVP where I could attack and be attacked at anytime. It is a competitive game where I can influence my opponents gameplay and they can influence mine. THAT is the game I signed up to play. THAT is the game SOE had developed.



    Solo players and Lone Wolves are at the bottom of the food chain. They are cert bait for everyone else. Here's a picture that shows the hierarchy of gameplay in PS2:

    [IMG]
    • Up x 2
  15. Shadowyc

    I say that, as a True Gamer, we must make this game even more relentless and unbearable for these filthy vermin. >:c They can barely be considered human anyway, so lets just drive them from the game until they can learn how to be competitive enough that failure means that they assault the winners with whatever tools they can.
    Victory at any cost, even if you lost. Maim the competition so that they never return.
    • Up x 1
  16. Brahma2

    In the air, using 4 people to kill a group of 12 to 30 enemy air that are all using lockons is a bit harder than fight greater numbers on the ground.
  17. WaaWaa

    I'll have a video up proving my point soon. :)

    Majority of Connery air is worthless/pathetic/hilarious. Take your pick.
  18. SNAFUS

    The majority of every servers pilot community are worthless/pathetic/hilarious, this is nothing new. Though I will agree many Connery's Aces have left the game, proportionally the amount of good versus bad pilots is pretty similar on any server. If I make a video of farming pilots on Emerald does that make your server bad then?
    • Up x 2
  19. WaaWaa

    You're a good pilot, and I'm not talking about ESF vs. ESF scenarios.

    I'm talking about dumb ESF/Lib pilots attempting and failing to engage ground targets without hovering for more than a few seconds ignoring the vehicle guns that are shooting them.

    Sorry I started on Emerald, and I've played there exclusively until about a few months ago. I'm just amazed at the amount and consistent nature of ESF/Lib's on Connery failing to properly engage ground targets. They don't do passes, they don't maintain angles where guns have deadzones above. Nope, they simply hover and don't move in plain line of sight of vehicle guns almost every single time. On Emerald, I never saw that amount of fail to the degree I've experienced it on Connery.

    Bad bad bad.
  20. KO-tic

    Skyguard..that thing a thousand certs...2 expensive for something for niche and boring

    and "team work" and out numbering are very different