[Video] Latest changes to ESF weapons on PTS (Jan 13 patch)

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by Hader, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. Hader



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    Hornets mag size reduced to 2 missiles. They also explode once they reach a certain range, 450m I believe. Damage also reduced but they still can do a good amount to ESFs and armor, but only really with rear shots for armor.

    Coyotes got a missile increase to 6 per mag, but a damage reduction to 100 per missile (down from 275). While I wanted to see a mag increase as well, I think 6 is too much, as well as the damage reduction too much. I think the sweet spot would be closer to 4 per mag and ~175 damage per missile. Maybe even 150 damage. But a little more around there with 4 missiles per mag would be much more ideal than 6 at 100 damage.

    Don't know if this was here before, but if you keep the lock throughout the reload of the missile after a successful hit, you will come back after reload with a lock on the target still and can fire immediately again. Great incentive to never stop tracking your target even while reloading, but you will miss out on that nosegun swap for extra damage.
    • Up x 4
  2. Schwak

    Something that would be cool for these would be 2 firing modes, location lock and wire guided. So basically you could fire and forget but it wouldn't lock onto a player but a specific space or you could cycle to the wire guide and direct it to hit moving targets. Would be a nice variation to the current game mechanics we have right now(almost like a mortar for your ESF). You would cycle firing modes by pressing B (same as infantry do).
    • Up x 3
  3. NoctD

    Hornets are just pointless now. As it was previously they had less damage output than pods are capable off vs a tank, so this is less than 1/2 the DPS of rocket pods, plus now you've got a pretty shortish range too. Yeah you might be more accurate and achieve more damage at times, but they're quite useless and lame especially if one has decent aim/accuracy with pods. Hope you're happy - this change has totally ruined the feel of Hornets even, should have left it at 4 rockets and less damage per at least.

    Coyotes I really can't fully get a feel for how their cert tree options would work out (right now lock-on range might seem to be a better option?), but I like the 6 low damage rockets, and yes, more rockets, not less. So no thank you to your idea/suggestion of 4.

    More rockets is more engaging for gameplay immersion, less is just boring/dull.

    My opinion of Coyotes went up some, my opinion of Hornets is that they're just utterly worthless now!
    • Up x 2
  4. Torok

    I'll take Hornets over the pods anytime, dat sexy firing sound.

    Thanks for the post Hader, one thing I'd like to see is the New nosegun to be around 250 certifications at release, as of now they're clearly a nosegun for beginners with their very huge magazine size and slow rof, so if it's going to be 1000 certs you can bet that no new pilot out there will take them.

    What do you guys think?
  5. Torok

    Hear me out on this one:
    You can now fire the 2 Hornets missiles and then switch to your nosegun and the laser guided rockets will still follow your aim while also reloading :)
    Have you considered this?

    It should make up for the magazine nerf.
  6. KodiakBlack


    Equally I don't know how many folks have noticed this but you can use freelook to guide the rockets so you can hit a target that basically at 90 degress to you're left or right who didn't know you were attacking him. Along with the absence of lock warning that's a very sudden lump of damage right there, you also don't have to fly right at the target or hover making you less susceptible to return fire.

    So long as these are useless vs infantry and an ESF will need at least 4 volleys to down an MBT I think these will be fine.

    ^Also^
    • Up x 2
  7. NoctD


    Or I could fire a full load of pods, switch to my nose gun anyways like I always do. The reload speed of Hornets and rocket pods are next to forever anyways.

    And then I can pod all them infantry that I come across too.

    Really - Hornets are pointless.

    Meanwhile your Vanguard, could splat that ESF way before he even makes much of a dent. The OHK ability should be removed entirely really, its the Vanguards that's been way OP vs. air, not even Prowlers cause those needed more than 1 hit.
  8. Torok


    You can shoot with your nosegun while the Rockets are flying, it's very different than shooting with the pods and then once magazine is depleted switching to the primary
  9. NoctD


    I recognize the difference, but it still doesn't nearly make up for the many drawbacks and even doing this the DPS is absolutely lower than pods.

    - Pods are much more useful vs. infantry
    - Pods have no range limit, Hornets have the 450m limit now
    - Pods don't require you to keep yourself pointed all the time while missiles are in flight, allowing one to break off if needed

    I think tanks are overestimating how effective the new weapons really will be. Air doesn't have the luxury of staying around all day looking at their targets, so having to guide the missiles might seem like an advantage, but its a significant drawback too. Basically it means you're exposing yourself a lot more by having the guidance ability.

    And then, all a Vanguard has to do is swat an ESF out of the sky.

    If they want to lower the DPS this much, then the range limit should not be there either. At least then you can play snipe from a distance if needed. Even then, anytime an ESF is forced to break off (its easy for a Skyguard to shoot ESFs that are not moving very fast), they won't even do any damage to their target.

    Its just lame. ESFs can't already do much in big battles, and one weapon that can possibly change that a little bit gets dumbed down cause of baby tanks who can't seem to figure out that they should run with support/air cover.
    • Up x 2
  10. Kaale

    as a middle of ther road pilot neither new or elite. I tried these last night and can't say I would bother with either, as they stand it takes for ever hovering to keep rockets flying at target (waiting to be shot down) to get a kill out of hornets and Coyotes may hit if you set them of in the right directon but need far to many to do the same damage that std rocket pods do.
    From my experience it is easier to kill a VR target than a real one so if it took me an entire magazine on the PTS I wont hit anything thats moving..
  11. biterwylie

    I have a very bad feeling about hornet missiles. I expect a huge outcry from ground vehicle drivers. Airbourne AV turret... Ouch
  12. Torok


    I'm ok with all of that, better release the Hornets in a perceived UP state than having them declared broken op, more so if people starts using them and don't achieve much.
    New weapons have to be fun and an alternative to the current ones, not Better.
    I think as a Sidegrade the Hornets sure fill a nice role so far.

    Also I'm pretty sure they will be tweaked again and again.
    Also the general ESF effectiveness ATM ingame is not due to the weapon systems it carries imho, but the amount and range of AA around.
    We'll see how the lock-on showing up on minimap will help with that :)
  13. NoctD

    But they're not a side grade - you have an AV weapon that does lousy AV damage. They're just a downgrade.

    There's no point in releasing new weapons that don't even perform their intended function well. If anything, these should be strong vs. vehicles, and weak vs. infantry.

    They're weak vs. vehicles, weaker vs. infantry, and an invitation for everyone to shoot at you while you're guiding them to the target. I won't go to say as far as they're totally ineffective, but one's basically gimping yourself by running them.

    Btw - even dual Ravens set a tank on fire in 1 clip in rear armor, and easily 2 clip a tank in the side (non Vanguard). Having Hornets be less than half that damage output is just insanely low.
    • Up x 1
  14. Ech0WhiskeY

    I feel like with the new weapons, and changes to existing ones, the Tomcat A2A Missiles will become useless and rare in the skies of Auraxis in ESF to ESF combat. I agree that their current state on the live server isn't working and needs to be improved, but the changes currently on the PTS are nerfing them too hard.

    If the plan remains to move them towards a "must-maintain-lock" style weapon (a radar-guided mechanic), there is NO REASON that flares should counter the missile. Flares counter IR-Guided missiles, not radar guided missiles (I believe it should be this way for the Striker as well). By implementing this mechanic, SOE is turning these missiles into a high-skill / high-reward weapon, that can be countered with the press of a button. Pilots complained that the Tomcat A2M missiles (in their current state) are a "I win" button for the attacker, but now we have the same mechanic for the defender.

    After testing these on the PTS, it is extremely frustrating to successfully achieve lock and maintain it, only to see the enemy pop his flares and laugh. ESFs are highly-maneuverable and can easily break the lock with a quick turn or a reverse maneuver - this is where the attacker's skill comes into play. If they are able to maintain a lock throughout the entire time of the missile's flight, they deserve to score a hit.

    My changes could be implemented by having the UI display a different color lock-on indicator (and perhaps a different sound) for missiles that can be countered by flares, and those that cannot. By all means, the defender should be warned of incoming damage, but they should also be warned that flares won't be effective in that scenario.
  15. biterwylie

    Yes they are basically pretty useless now. They are not even a good anti lib weapon. But there are plenty of examples of this happening in PS2. That's the main reason I will not buy the new weapons, they will also get nurfed once the nose gun/lolpodder majority have their wish.
  16. Torok


    I don't see them that way, amen!
  17. NoctD


    And you're still more of a tank guy than a pilot, so I don't expect you to! :)

    But its wrong to think of Hornets as flying AV mana turrets... the mana turret is a stable firing platform, requiring no other input than pointing your mouse, which allows it to play follow the doritos and achieve incredible ranged hits on moving targets even.

    Raven MAXes are a much better comparison, both have to break engagement frequently because both are rather fragile platforms, and Ravens have that recoil and having to keep multiples in flight.
  18. Phazaar

    I'm wondering if the heat seeking mechanic could be used to hard-code an anti-zerg measure - so if the missiles come within each others heat-seeking zones, they attempt to hit one another.

    I think Coyotes will be a -lot- easier to balance and result in a -lot- less QQ if an outfit can't instantly clear the skies with 4 ESFs instakilling other ESFs that have absolutely no counter to the onslaught. Granted Coyotes are in quite a good place now, but I'd still like to see a hard-coded measure to stop them becoming the be-all-end-all zerg-o-matic weapon...
    • Up x 1
  19. Torok


    OT: :confused: God I detest the Ravens, you have to keep Line of Sight all the time and the projectile speed is so painfully slow, they should give them "Heat Seeking" behaviour :cool:
  20. NoctD

    They already seek out all targets, friendly or otherwise. Fire one too near a friendly ESF, and it will get hit instead. If you're chasing an enemy ESF, and a friendly ESF behind you decides to fire some Coyotes, chances are you'll get hit instead.
    • Up x 1