[VIDEO] ESF reverse maneuver changes on the Test Server (Video comparing PTS and Live)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SebDollar, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. SebDollar


    Made a quick video comparing the changes to the reverse maneuver. In my opinion they shouldn't change it. PS2 have a very unique flight model, and it would be a shame if they messed with it. Besides that, i think it would be a shame to lower the skill ceiling.
    • Up x 23
  2. Jeslis

    Yea.. I wonder why they changed it?.. perhaps they want more dogfighting based on... someones on your 6, need wingman to take it out, and basically, killing the reverse maneuver as an option for face-to-face dogfighting?
  3. Notih8Darian

    I'm not quite sure how I feel about this, as a pilot I use it to take out low BR pilots easily. But on the other hand, I get taken out easily by those who mastered the maneuver. I would be up for a nerf, but changing it from a factor of 8 to 2 is too much.
    • Up x 1
  4. Eclipson

    Basically, what it seems they are doing, is changing the amount of vertical thrust you get by default with afterburners, so then, when the add the afterburner cert line, you can cert into making it go back up to what it was. If this is the case, its a really lazy change, as its gonna pretty much ruin flying for everyone without a few thousands certs to spare, or who wants to actually use a secondary weapon. The changes feel really bad. I was doing some dogfighting on the PTS, and pretty much if someone gets the drop on you, your dead. Trying to reverse maneuver just isn't worth it anymore. If the afterburner cert tree does what I think it will, it will not only lower the skill ceiling, but it will also create a large gap between high rank pilots and low rank, since high rank will be able to cert into external afterburners, and will simply wreck the competition.
    • Up x 12
  5. Aethestis

    They wont make AB cert into making the backward flying possible again, they are simply trying to get rid of it on purpose because of the whine by terribles who wont take the time to learn how to fly in planetside and want a free kil. These are the same people equipping a2am and wondering why they still lose dogfights somehow. Its obviously cause the hackers flying backwards

    I at one time thought it was dumb to be able to fly backwards, but having practiced and being able to do it now myself, ive found that its not only fun, but unique to this game

    Ive played many flight and space flight sims over the years and chasing the other guy around at max speed in circles for minutes on end does not really make for entertaining dog fighting. The flight cieling in planetside is too low for doing real big a2a fighting with a traditional model and lets face it, part of planetside 2's unique flight model means its utterly unrealistic.

    The fighters have no momentum that youd expect in a real flight game, they dont stall, they dont do any of these kinds of things. Trying to copy paste "fly in a circle" game play onto planetside will drive people to quit/stop flying. You cant make it the same as other games when your physics simulation for the craft completely ignores lift mechanics, aerodynamics and gravity most of the time.

    It's already annoying enough to dogfight and have 5 of the guys friends taking a2a missile shots at you from max lockon range, but this kind of thing will the be the nail in the coffin for skill based a2a combat. Guess we all better save up certs for the next auto win a2a lockon since defending yourself against attack will no longer be an option in an esf
    • Up x 8
  6. Hoki


    • Up x 1
  7. Ronin Oni

    You know reaver pilots are gonna complain the most... this is their baby...

    Scythe's perform reverse the worst of all 3 ESF

    This will actually prolly give scythes a better chance to A2A dogfight TBQH.

    I always felt Reavers and Mossies were pretty even though they had differences... Scythes always felt like slow saucers IMO. The worst is definitely the weakness of reverse maneuver.

    In any case, I'll be flying on Hossin 24/7 with more then enough obstacles to use for losing a tail :D
    • Up x 1
  8. FrontTowardEnemy

    I see this change as normalizing the effectiveness of the Hover Frame with the other two choices. In a real helo, vertical thrust is the most critical component in overall flight performance. Power is everything. The same goes with fixed wing aircraft as well, but I digress.

    Anyway, with Hover Frame 3 and the compounding effect of afterburners directly improving the benefits of the Hover Frame, the peak performance capability for maximum vertical thrust output was pushed far above the dev's design limits and intended performance envelope. They're simply fixing an unintended result in their original design.

    Are players who heavily depend (use it as a crutch) on this aspect of the design going to be outraged by the change? Most definitely. Personally, I see the change as a chance for the other two airframe options to become a viable choice vs. having to always pick hover frame or lose a fight. It's less about "removing the reverse maneuver" and more about "oh hey, you can use other tactics built around other airframes now".

    As always, the best pilots will experiment and quickly find the new maximally effective combination of setup and tactics and the exact same guys will be ruling the skies as always. The rest of the pilots who refuse to adapt will just whine on the forums and be food for the rest.
    • Up x 13
  9. Clapeyron

    Seriously guys you can't mean that this is breaking you hearts?
    I mean they are called Empire Specific FIGHTERS not empire specific mostly helicopter-like flying things.
    And this is happening accross factions, so it won't (hopefully) be of uneven gain between said factions.

    From my perspective it would be nice if the ESF's totaly lost their hover mode, and became a real fighter jet, let the bomber aka liberator be the hovering installment in this game. And make the ESF's the wolfpack that guards or destroys bombers...

    I think that would be really cool.
    Scenario I
    enemy has got many tanks - bring liberators

    scenario II
    enemy has now got many libs - bring fighters

    etc. you know what I mean, I want more of a rock-paper-scissor kind of tactics, as it is now the esf is (almost) almighty albeit from other esfs...
    • Up x 5
  10. Malacovics

    They indeed should tweak the ESF flight model because it's not fair how 6 low BR pilots just get simply get obliterated by a BR 100 [FOOL] Shure guy.
  11. SebDollar

    You can easily do the same maneuvers without Hover as it is right now. And by design or not, the reverse maneuver adds a new dimension to dogfights you cant find in any other game.
    As other players have mentioned, i don't really see the fun in reducing dogfights to 2 ESFs chasing round and around in circles until the fastest aircraft have cought up with the other one. In this scenario the Mossie will always win because it's faster, and thus will be able to turn around in the circle faster than the other ESFs.
    Sure, the "good pilots" will find a way to maximize their effectiveness, but when you take the fun (being able to pull crazy maneuvers) out of air to air combat, i think you quickly will see dedicated air to air pilots either stop flying, or switch to farming ground instead.
    • Up x 3
  12. SebDollar

    Yes, ESF stand for Empire Specific Fighter, but lets not get caught in semantics. The thing that makes the "fighter" part fun in flying ESFs, is pulling crazy maneuvers and outsmarting your enemy. Not a stamina contest of who can chase the other guys tail around and around in circles until he gets vertigo. If you take the fun out of dogfighting, you wont have dedicated air to air pilots, and then nobody in the air will stop hover podding ESFs and Zepher Libs from farming the ground.
    • Up x 3
  13. biterwylie

    I actually really like the change. It makes the game feel much less 'for the kiddies' and the aircraft behave in a more believable way thus not breaking the atmosphere of the game.

    On a gameplay front I also think the dogfights themselves are now much more fun.

    Good job SOE. Thumbs up from me.
    • Up x 11
  14. exLupo

    Ironic. It sounds like the whines are now coming from reverse pilots who won't be able to get as many free kills. Lower skill ceiling doesn't mean bad players instantly become good. It just means bad players aren't so easily farmed.

    Good pilots will still dominate the field. You'll know them because they will still be good without the reverse crutch that put them so far ahead of those who couldn't master it. The question is: Will you be one of them?
    • Up x 8
  15. allattar

    I like the idea of this change. Yes I can reverse thrust, yes I dogfight and fly a lot. No I am not brilliant at reverse thrust, but I can do it.

    Current shot velocity changes for the scythe mad facing reverse thrust not as bad. The extra velocity on each shot made hitting s reverser easy. Remember the scythe used to have lowest shot velocity and I found this pretty crucial in hitting a reverser.

    I never liked the hover circle jerk of ps1 flying. Here it was turning into the same. I did find it easier to reverse in the reaver than the scythe. I had to practice in the reaver to learn how the scythe could get it to work.

    But I want dogfights, not reverse face duels. Hopefully hover frame still offers such, but I am looking forward to dogfights again.
    • Up x 4
  16. Clapeyron


    Allthough I see you point and find it not at all unreasonable, I still disagree... Are you saying that there weren't dedicated pilots in games like BF, helicopter ones or fighter, Because imo there certainly was to a degree and I don't think it was necesseraly a boring gameplay in such dogfights.
    You see, I also get that if hover is to be removed (which it isn't going to be, no matter how much I would want it to be) then somethin else needs to be gained... Seems like raw velocity is a real trait of fighters, and one that in itself would make bombers fear fighters. This way I decreased the ease and longeivety of an ESF can attack stationary ground targets BUT it is made much harder for ground targets to properly engage and bring down... like a fighter.

    I'm not saying that I want dogfighting to be mmade boring, I'm just saying thatif something is supposed to fill an air-superiority role than it shouldn't fill the ground part aswell.

    as a balancing note to my hypothetical and imaginary proposal, IF (and I think it shouldn't be allowed but hey, I'm ready to consieve this) an ESF should be able to be outfitted with A2G capable weapons, then it should be rubbish against Air and vice-versa.
  17. Kulantan

    I see this said a lot. I don't think its true. The reverse maneuver will still be possible after the change, just less effective. That isn't lowering the skill ceiling, it isn't taking away from ESFs box of tricks. Its just making the difference in power between a crazy skilled pilot and a newb a little less, which means it is lowering the skill floor for dogfighting. Which isn't a bad thing in my book.
    • Up x 1
  18. Canaris

    all hover spammers should die in a firey wreckage, any change that makes it so you need to fly your aircraft instead is a good change
    • Up x 1
  19. Goretzu

    It's Empire Specific Farmer................ just to be clear. :D
    • Up x 1
  20. SebDollar

    This will change nothing regarding hover spammers. But in my opinion, it will make it less fun for the ESFs hunting down the hover spammers.
    • Up x 1