Vanu bias confirmed?

Perfectly Outdated data; Should we compare the new ES equipment across? VS is winning there pretty hard.

Infinite ammo grants longer sustained fire.

If VS's ES gear was inferior, the ability to use it, would show-up on NS.
NC shows an increase in capability with NS, if VS was better skilled, just like NC, it would show up.

If the vehicle was OP, let alone by sheer number, the VS then has to engage twice the number of enemy vehicles.
If the vehicle was equal let alone OP, that's twice the firepower or more.
So the Magrider, killing MBT's, in equal measure with less Magriders, says even out-numbered the Magrider is rivaling them.
Put VS in lightnings however, and they have the same general stats as NC & TR...

The Beetle, the God Saw, and the Butcher have the same requirements.
The Beetle & Butcher are even the same range.
The Beetle has the highest results of the three, which are all gated equally.

Given the Meta, for vehicles, doesn't account for a grenade basically nuking an MBT in under a second, cloaking & uncloaking
I'd say, VS is about to eliminate enemy tanks for grenade prices, till their enemy runs dry on nanites, before pulling Magriders.
Since you can not keep up with Flashes, that need less time to unload their full damage.
And it's gonna be a VS special.

What is enough to you, that VS has 0% pop and 0% win rate? Is it then okay to have ES perks like no bullet drop on some weapons (which isn't spectacularly useful in any way), and heat mechanic on some guns (as if ammo packs, ammo printer, large ammo pool guns don't exist)?

VS plays the objective, organizes squads well, does more with less, because the alternative is logging off or joining TR & NC (I've already joined TR, primarily to kill NC).

I don't even get your point other than your mentioning that VS often is strong for the purpose of winning alerts sometimes with fewer population. I don't dispute that at all, VS is indeed strong for that, but then you make the leap implying VS stuff is somewhat OP to explain it? I'll use the same thing NC use against me when I call much of their infantry stuff slightly OP, and some of their ES vehicles nonsensical (Mjolnir only recently got a minor nerf, I-Win shield remains I win if you simply 1vs1 an enemy tank): try playing VS, play infantry and ES vehicles. I bet you will see they are okay, not overpowered, not underpowered.

TR on the other hand, the pea shooters with the worst accuracy, and ES trait of 'kill it with more bullets' and poor win rates, and poor or non-existent team work, who can only win when having major pop advantage, yeah, I've played that for BR87, it isn't fun to have every medic walk over your corpse, or ignore your 1 slither of health max sitting at spawn with nobody caring to repair. I won't point out the occasional vehicle zergs that are effectively a population drain that drive around since at least TR has some breathing room to do fun stuff outside of play the objective.

Phoenix is hands-down my favorite thing in the game (which i've said many many times) - trouble is the 'camera guided' mechanic is very flexible so there can be unintended buffs when things change. Most recent of which is the increase in no-deply zones - which allows a Phoenix pilot more time to get onto target (eg. deployed Sunderer) which has caused many other moan threads.Yet it's still the same and extremely far from 'nerfed into the ground'.

As for Canis - exactly the same can be said of the Gatekeeper (from PTS experience it was OP) yet they introduced it anyway and it stayed that way for 6 months as i've said previously. How long did the Canis stay OP ?

Things can get introduced in an OP state. The most important thing is - when the adjustment comes - it needs to NOT nerf it to oblivion and leave it there. And the nerfed-to-useless graveyard for VS is considerable.

If VS was UP, it wouldn't be possible to win anything with such a small population, yet not have the severe skills required to show up on shared-weapons & vehicles.

Do you know, what VS's Heat-mechanic tends to work like?
Switch from it, it's automatically reloaded to full. Akin to the ESF's.
Everyone else, has to pull it out, and reload it - while unarmed.
Everyone else has to reload at some point, their duration of fire is limited, and can't be extended.

VS played the objective so well, their Vehicles killed equal, with less Tanks?
VS played the objective, so their Directive Gear results, scored higher?
Have you played the objective? it's usually NOT a farm.

A Saron is not a weak-weapon.
Nor is the Orion.
Nor was the Lancer.
Nor was the original Canis.
Nor is the Obelisk.

Yet VS Complains that the Magrider dies to the terrain & everything else on the drop of a hat
-- While the Magrider rivals a Vanguard, something they claim doesn't die, in killing MBTs; Aka in Killing Prowlers & Vanguards.

With less people, this means less bodies, and less guns.
Against more people, aka more health-pools & more guns -- Without a skill advantage, this is 2v1 or worse odds here.
Yet VS pulls ahead every time -- while showing none of this skill advantage on anything but ES Weapons.
So the skill argument, kinda falls flat on its face, when identical weapon platforms, VS isn't ahead on.
NC is ahead on NS weaponry for accuracy in use for example; Which makes sense, as NC needs to deliver head-shots.
So VS isn't hitting the roof on skill for NS , and they're matching TR, with NS weaponry.

So we have VS, with less people, scoring equal in NS weapons & vehicles, but rivaling & besting TR & NC when using ES.
The same ES gear, that VS complains is inferior to NS, and used less.

I play all 3 Sides.
I find it hilarious that VS keeps claiming inferior gear; As the gear works damn perfectly fine.
A Magrider outnumbered, can not be inferior, when the operator is also impossible to be superior in every instance, yet reliably win.

So I'm mostly here to say VS, who tends to claim they are superior-skilled & that is how they get their result, and that claim is utter ********.
Can you agree, or even claim, that the notion of a Flash being equal to a Prowler or Vanguard as a good thing, for VS?
If not, then why are you bothering me, who's talking to the guy who says that it is alright?

ZOE wasn't needed to nerfe'ed into oblivion, correct.
The Phoenix, is however incredibly poor at killing things.
The list of near useless-from-the-get-go list for NC is also pretty bloody large.

VS has a list of things they reaped souls with.
TR has a list.
NC barely has a list.

VS is also getting the better end of 3\4ths of the entire set of new ES gear, we've been finally getting.
They literally were given a head-enlarging ammo & the Anchor, right after another in a row.

I had no idea heat mechanic can get bypassed if I understand you right by changing to secondary in all the time I've used the phaseshift, and then the canis and obelisk and the lmg. Will have to test that to see if it works, but that sounds like a major bug that should be addressed, and can't be an intentional feature of heat mechanic.

Yes, it isn't a farm for sure. Where are these statistics, and are they accurate in reflecting the overall gameplay?

The lancer has no real zoom, a pretty slow beam-projectile for the purpose of hitting far targets, and pretty low ammo pool even if using 3 charges per shot. I unlocked the archer since I find it more versatile. The original canis was broken-OP but that's a non-issue since they did finally nerf it, as much as I still hate unstable ammo's cheap heatshots. Obelisk has the middle ground (as I find VS in general sharing a middle ground) with its NC variant being better with penetrating ammo, and Dragoon having yet another completely worthless attachment of explosive rounds meant for crap all. Saron is strong indeed, Orion feels like an MSW-R, an actually powerful TR LMG but with limited range and very poor accuracy.

That part is true and needs to be fixed. Countless times the magrider touches sloped terrain and takes insane damage. Magrider doesn't even feel like a MBT, more like a support that needs to flank from a distance to do anything. With the prowler rework, the magrider now feels like it has nothing going for it.

Where are these statistics? Do they really apply to the overall game at this point in time, and based on server and during prime time? I often see most players using ES weapons, (myself included since different flavors keep things fresh), but I still own and like a lot of NS gear on both TR & VS and yes they require headshots or situations that favor accuracy.

I party agree with you in that I don't think it's skill, but I believe what makes VS so strong is its leadership and ability to team work for the objective. Granted I never played against VS as TR, and never much played in TR squads since I don't (yet) engage VS, so I don't know what it's like fighting against VS, but I do know NC clearly has good team work and tactics and gear of every kind, TR does not, and VS sits in-between with exceptional team-work for both randoms and squads.

Yes. It's most noticeable with VS's directive weapons, which are all ammo-less.
Not only that instant trick, it's also how is the only kind of weapon that reloads while not in use:
Everyone else has to expose themselves for a reload, such as the Gauss Saw's massive reload time.
A Beetlegeuise user, can just wield their pistol; Or attempt a weapon switch & be done, or slow down the burst interval.

Most of the stats, come from the numerous tracking sites
Demigan, usually has the detailed bits, and after a long while, at this point, most already know the sources.

Generally* accurate.

I did say 'was', it' needs a little tweak, but not much.
Archer is glorious, more so for TR & NC.
Orion & that rifle, are in the same field basically.

It's mainly from how much if the top of the hull - which is a bugger.
It's not as easy as it sounds to flip a maggie, unless a Harasser is involved.
Mind you, that's compared to every other vehicle, and sweet mercy... the vanguards I have seen flipped.
The Magrider, has the Saron, and the agility it still has.
Though yes, the Prowler is now a much more mobile weapon-platform than it was.


Leadership doesn't turn average joe's into gods, against the same skill-level enemy who out-numbers them, only when said VS joe is wielding an ES gun.
As that would logically not be ES gear specific; yet it seemingly is.
As well, VS's leaders, even if from PS-1, would be facing TR & NC Leaders from there.
Which given VS's wining streak across near every server from day 1, says a lot.

Now you mention it - I completely forgot the Mjolnir ! How could I forget it (actually it was very forgettable on introduction).

Saying that, at least it's been buffed to pretty darn good - can even out DPS a Vulcan at point blank range (much to the chagrin of Vulcan gunners).


But still - VS has the most over-nerfed stuff right now...

VS has also had the most over-buffed, and a long list of practical ones.
Only TR can get close.

And since VS is also literally getting 3 of 4 of the new ES weapons, on their table, hands-down...
I don't think it matters much that VS has had a lot of adjusted tools, when they reliably get the better guns..

You know what is truly OP?
Skill.

No kidding. I flipped my Vanguard the other day just by driving over a small rock too fast.

What? ZOE lasted for like six months before it was finally nerf'd!

Pfft, longer than that. That stuff was broken forever on the PS4 version, my man.

First read what I said. Then understand it. Then post. I did show you why your argument is crap....just like the stuff about longer sustained fire(you can not fire a single second longer. You got no idea. The weapon heats up and locks...it's exactly the same as ammo. You got no more sustained fire unless you run out of ammo usually. And we all know that doesn't happen to you).

I don't care about the butcher. Again, that one is gated and got little to do with the meta cause only few players have them. If you want a slightly better gun(I'm not even sure the beetle is...given that you seem to rely on your false idea of infinite ammo to call something OP) that you just can see on your screen but likely never touch then fine with me. I don't care. The beetle is just a strawman, nothing else.

VS is deleting tanks from the game. I don't now which game, I only play planetside 2...but I suppose it will do that in an alternate universe in the future. Until then: Play the game.
Can't hear that "it's going to happen, for sure, I promise, some day...do something about it or it will happen...no really...it will."-crap anymore.

Oh god. Not just "VS will ruin us all"...no...you top it with "oh, and VS ruined us all back than, 5 years ago"- reply. How about staying in reality? Ah wait, reaility does not fit to your complaints. Darn, too bad.

If you want to talk about PS4 make a different thread. That's a different game experience and has nothing to do with this.

And the ZOE was broken when a lot of other stuff was broken compared to today as well. It'd be interesting how long it was really in the game...but even 6 months are nothing compared to how long we already deal with scatmaxes or vanguard shields or strikers.

Pacster, you're going full Prudentia. Never go full Prudentia.

I play both PS4 and PC, lmao.

What a spaz.

"Spaz?" Where did you pull that, the early 2000s?

Regardless, just because you play both versions doesn't change the fact that both are very different experiences from each other.

Not as much as you think. The only difference is one has construction, the other (thankfully) does not. Maps, vehicles, gunplay are 100% identical. And even the skill of your average player is about the same.

By sustained fire he probably means that the pattern of shooting, then moving / taking cover / 'miscellaneous xyz' task can continue unabated by a multi-second reload. Players are not just going to sit and hold M1 until the heat ticks to 100 and the weapon locks. You get more instantaneous sustained fire with a "hard" ammo type weapon vs a heat one, but over a longer period of time you will mathematically* have better sustained fire with a heat weapon simply since you aren't obligated to go through a reload every "x" number of rounds. This give a distinct but minute combat advantage that is both circumstantial and far from overpowered.

*Assuming you don't cook it. A safe bet seeing as how the users of the weapons with this mechanic will be presumed to have some experience in the game.

I honestly thought the Heat implant was VS-specific when I saw it so I was expecting something similarly flavored for TR and NC. Seems a bit of a missed opportunity to be honest.