Vanu bias confirmed?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by raffa2, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Pacster3

    You think a starfall and a stupid implant nobody will use gonna make up for vanguard, prowler, striker, phoenix, scatmax? I somehow don't think so... ;-)
  2. HomicideJack

    Scatmax is utter trash, believe me. I see one and I don't even get scared. I lure it into a mine. Strikers got a huge nerf in this last patch. Phoenixes are marginally useful due to their slow velocity and the fact they can be shot down, and Vanguards and Prowlers are perfectly balanced. The Magrider's mobility is its niche.

    Let's instead bring up the crutch weapons the VS have: no bullet drop sniper rifles with equally high velocities as their NC and TR equivalents; instant-hit lancer squads; numerous directive and non-directive weapons with infinite ammo pools; starfall wraith flashes; oh, and they're impossible to see at night.
    • Up x 1
  3. iller

    This was something obvious from the very beginning of the game when VS had lowest pop universally.... IOW: they figured out pretty quick that they literally had to BRIBE people to play the Barnies
  4. Kristan

    Wut? Excuse me, but there was the time when everyone ran around with Canis because of broken "no aim" ammo.
  5. Demigan

    I'm suspecting a stealth buff for VS MAX's as lately I've seen more of them, and I've often been killed as when I had unloaded my full magazine they would kill me a second later. And most of the time such things happened they would be well out of my effective range too so... Yeah VS MAX's are well capable of owning NC MAX's and working with Salvage unless you get in their face, and even then the NC MAX needs to hit everything while the VS MAX doesn't.
  6. LodeTria


    Zerglings are just using them more because several posts about NC maxes get posted on reddit.
    Happens quite often when a perceived OP weapon or thing gets pushed into the normie meta that way, like phoenix had their time in the sun, EMPs, Dildars. Normally falls off after a month.
  7. Demigan

    Considering how VS population dipped for actual balance patches, some of which did barely anything like the 0.75ADS change, the only "positive marketing" VS can get is receiving multiple OP toys that will never get rebalanced. Considering the Starfall is overperforming the Fury in every single metric by a sizeable margin, including infantry kills which is supposed to be the Furies thing if you listen to the VS even though the Fury is supposed to be equal in power to the Starfall according to them, it seems that the devs are doing exactly that by keeping the Starfall OP.
  8. Demigan

    what does an NC MAX post have to do with the VS MAX being pulled more?
  9. LodeTria


    Zergling see's several "NC maxes r too strong" posts.
    Well I'm VS or TR so I guess I'll use my max.

    It's not that complex, just like the average zergling.
  10. Demigan

    The usual zergling is "oh noes my enemy is stronger, I'll use something else instead". Zerglings prefer cheese, not picking something they perceive as inferior to something else. So why would they use the perceived inferior VS MAX?
  11. LodeTria


    Are they just not going to pull their version of the MAX? It's more that they don't really have a choice and they saw that MAX was strong, and it says MAX so pull.

    Zerglings don't even know what cheese is otherwise AI's sunderers would be far more common, the closest the normie meta has come to real cheese is HESH, but even that is far inferior to AI sunderers, MAXes and so on.

    Zerglings just use infantry and that's it, and a MAX be it inferior or superior or whatever is as close as you can get to an infantry power upgrade, so when you see people going "-Faction- MAX too stronk" you just see MAX and pull it.
  12. Braneman

    The only bolt action VS sniper that doesn't have bullet drop is the Phaseshift which does less total damage and less minimum damage than any other bolt action in the game it actually doesn't do enough damage to kill a shielded HA on a headshot. The night thing hasn't been an issue for years at this point because they darkened up the other two factions armor and nerfed how dark night actually gets.
    Also no bullet drop is the VS faction trait, you might as well complain that the NC have weapons with 100% consistent headshot TTKs or how the TR have the best pistols and by far the best default pistol in the game. In fact I would go so far as to say those two things have a larger impact since a skilled NC effectively ignores damage falloff for headshot damage on pretty much any 200 damage primary and the TR don't have to worry about buying a new pistol because the repeater is already good as a spray and pray panic weapon.
    • Up x 1
  13. Towie

    Yes it was broken - and fixed very quickly.

    How long was the I-win shield broken OP ? How long the Gatekeeper (answer 6 months - I know well as I abused the hell out of it).

    I play all three factions and can categorically state that VS are in possession of the most nerfed-to-oblivion things in the game. PPA, Zoe, now Lancer, I have absolutely no doubt that Starfall will soon follow suit. However powerful the Starfall is will never make up for the VS 10-20% population deficit.
    • Up x 2
  14. xMeserionx

    Consdidering how historically in planetside 2 Vanu gets nerfed *Lancer/ ZOE) or crappy stuff (Spiker/Phaseshift) most of the time, this is a nicer change.
  15. LordKrelas

    Spiker is better than Despardo, which it was cloned off of.
    The Sniper Rifles in the same field as the Phaseshift have their own problems; neither one got the attention, this gun got.
    ZOE, was quite literally OP.
    Lancer was deleting things at render range.

    So considering history mentioned; That's a lot of VS toys that were re-balanced, touched, or equal to their opponents.
    As well, You know VS isn't exactly on a losing streak at all right?
    Phoenix has the record for 'fixes' in set amount of time.
    Canis was released in that state after a PTS, and defended to the death by VS, claiming it was justified to exist at that state.
    Saron is still a thing, in its state - unchanged.
    ZOE, was also similar for ages.

    "I-win" Shield of the NC Tank, the only thing that determined if the Vanguard could win; It took awhile, but was turned into even more situational & entirely flawed now.

    VS is in the possession of the longest list of OP On arrival toys, which means it's got one of the longer lists of adjusted toys.
    Go figure.
    Considering how VS with less people, manages to top charts, yet doesn't manage this feat in anything but ES equipment..
    Isn't it magical, how the smallest side facing prowlers & vanguards in higher counts, with apparently OP tools, has the longest winning streak?
    • Up x 2
  16. Pacster3

    Like killing infantry. Bias confirmed.
  17. Pacster3

    ZOE was/is similar for ages...in the nerfed to absolute uselessness state. The real powerful ZOE didn't last long.
    Currently the VS just got luck with the game mechanics. If you have a group with lower pop then that group usually has better teamplay(cause they are less, it's easier to coordinate...and they have to or they stand no chance to win) and attracts better players(better players look for competition, balance and are more likely to not join the "winning team"). That is stuff you will find in any game. On top of that you got the 3way fight(which often ain't fair and ends in more of a 2vs1) and join combat button. Now the join combat button seems to prefer the largest fight...and which is usually larger: The one between the 2 factions with the highest pop or the one where the faction with the lowest pop is involved? So you get another player in that fight which makes it even larger...and so on. About the three way situation you can take the classical Cobalt prime time: VS 26-28% pop,hence they usually got little territory at the start of an alert(you can't overcome such a disadvantage for several hours). So the other 2 fight for the win...and VS sneaks up to them and steals the victory. VS almost always has the worst starting position during those alerts and that turns into an advantage. Yesterday night VS had like 80% territory at the start of a fight on Hossin...and ended the alert with 0% although having like 40% pop for most of the alert(at the end only 28% have been left). So this has nothing to do with VS being weak or OP...it's just a question of game mechanics.
  18. Demigan

    And thats a nonsensical comment to what I wrote. Stop being so biased that you cant even read straight anymore.
  19. LordKrelas

    Luck with Game Mechanics, to reliably manage a winning streak, match higher-number vehicles with less, and get better results with ES weapons.
    Easier to coordinate VS, and better team-play... with a drastic chance to lose; Yet wins while outnumbered, from game-start to now.
    Do you know the odds of this?
    Better skilled? Okay , so why does VS's skill drop then on NS weapons & vehicles?
    In order to be better skilled, they'd have to actually show skill, and with weapons everyone can use, VS hasn't shown better skill.

    I'm surprised you don't mention NC being locked on Indar with the worst location for why VS had better win rates.
    Game Mechanics, is this why VS calls infinite ammo bad? As skill?
  20. Pacster3


    You notice that VS was not worse without infinite ammo? How come if that is such a huge advantage? Why don't you use your perfectly outdated and flawed statistics there? I know how often I run out of ammo...equal to zero times. Possibly cause I don't camp tho. The only time it really came in handy was when destroying modules in bases(not sure if I would call that an important part of gameplay tho ;-)).

    Let's see: Why do people perform better at something and not better at something else? Maybe because there is a higehr skill cap on ES weapons so only better players use those while the rest prefer NS weapons.
    What you don't understand about statistics is how complex they are and that different parts may influence each other. One faction pulls more vehicles cause they are deemed OP. The other faction then has more targets tho, so they can kill more vehicles. On the other hand the smaller factions is outnumbered, and even an OP tank won't win a 2vs1. If one side pulls more vehicles, that means that the other side has likely more infantry running around(given roughly equal numbers)...so they should have a numerical advantage there. Does that again mean that they will just win all fights or does it just mean more targets for the opponent? Now with different skill levels the answer on that question changes. If one side has the worst tanks, isn't it more likely that they will find alternative ways to fight against tanks(like, ehm...starfall flashes)...while others won't pull furys cause they got a strong tank that can deal with the others? And then there is always the hype situation around new toys.
    If I got an OP weapon(or one that counts as op. That often already is enough if there are in fact no big differences) then everyone(especially those without skill) will use it. Now lancer, lasher and co:(the VS ES weapons) do not exactly count as OP right now...neither does Orion after the nerfs(and beetle is DEFINITELY only for those with darn lot of experience cause it is heavily gated. I'm miles away from getting it and my toon is on level 205 counting ASP in). So maybe, just maybe only the more skilled players use them.
    Those are all viable alternative interpretations that you need to take into your calculation...and al that only given that your statistics are reliable(and we all know that they are not).

    I prefer to just go onto the server and check what people actually play. That's the meta. That shows me what is OP and what not(at least once the hype is over). I don't care for KPU cause that says NOTHING as long as the stuff is not used massively(so by a wide range of skill levels) in the meta. I don't care if some magrider can take out 10 vanguards per hour by sneaking around some hills. The situation I see daily is that you have a vanguard in your face popping it's shield and just outgunning you no matter what you do if you roll out of your vehcile pad...and that they do the exact same when rolling out of their vehicle pad. That situation is far more common than some long range fight on amerish with hills everyhwere. I do see vanguards, prowlers and even lightnings shooting down ESFs quite often, I don't see magriders even trying to shoot at ESFs. That is the reality...