[Suggestion] Vanguard revamp ideas

Ehh, they should just put more work into the NS weps for faction specific vehicles in general. If I'm going to pay SC for an NS weapons, it should be for all factions, or at least should be unique across factions.

So you think a mag can take a vanguard on 1v1?

They can't nerf/buff the halberd for each faction, that wouldn't make sense. They really never should have put NS weapons on ES vehicles or vice versa.

Easily. At distance the mag can "dodge" shots by moving in a confusing pattern and always only displaying its most armored location, it can easily gain that distance by climbing ridiculous terrain, and can easily back off when the vanguard pops his shield with magburner, while destroying and supporting infantry trying to repair the vanguard with his clearly superior AI PPA.

What does the vanguard have in return? A high projectile speed comperable to the locked down TR shells (Which will also be firing more frequently while locked down) A good speed in a straight line? On the largest tank with **** AI you will have to constantly be on the lookout for infantry sneaking up with explosives.

Let's face it, you will rarely if ever have two MBT's simply run into eachother in the open field. The only situation that a vanguard would have the upper hand is in a situation where the magrider cannot disengage, and is at close range or has no cover to strafe behind.
Of course, the magrider is designed to be able to escape from virtually any kind of terrain trap.

They could. I mean they have different variants for different vehicle chassis, so why not different MBTs?

Just call it a Halberd-V, Halberd-P, and Halberd-M. Just like they made the Halberd-H for the Harasser, which only does 80% the direct damage of an MBT Halberd.

again, 1,16 vehicle kills per unique. There's this nice little counter on ps2oraclestats.com that says the lowest average of Uniques is 212, so at minimun that's the amount of vehicles it's spread over.
But here's the thing: an average vehicle kills per Unique of 5,48 compared to an average vehicle kills per unique of 4,34 (current stats) means that the difference of 1,14 vehicle kills per unique counts for each and every Vanguard AP. We got 10126 Vanguard AP Uniques that all got an average of 1,14 vehicle kills less. Which comes down to 11543,64 vehicle kills over all those Uniques that have been missed compared to the Prowler AP. That's eleventhousand vehicle kills less over a month.
Does that put the "small" number of 1,16 in perspective? That's 11543,64*vehicle XP that the Vanguard AP is missing.


Infantry kills now! In KPH and KPU
Prowler HE has highest KPH of 49,75 and a KPU of 13,63
Magrider Supernova VPC has the second highest KPH with 39,95 and a KPU of 13,07
Titan HE has the third highest KPH with 37,19 and a KPU of 9,56

There is a difference of almost 10 kills per hour between the magrider and Prowler. Despite this the KPU is almost identical. This shows that the Prowler gets more kills in less time, while overall the Magrider and Prowler get the same amount of kills with one tank.
The poor Vanguard however seems so close to the Magrider with a KPH of 37,19, only 2 kills per hour difference! But there are also 14% more Vanguard HE pulled than the Magrider VPC. That's 500 more Vanguard HE than Magrider VPC over a month. So the Average KPU comed down to a measely 9,56... A difference of about 3,5.
Didn't we see a difference of 1,16 being an incredible number already? Now we got a number 3x as big!
3,5*3731 Uniques=13058,5 kills less over a month. That's thirteenthousand less kills. Assuming no XP alterations that means 13058,5*100=1305850 XP missed over all Uniques over a month. That's one million three hundred and five thousand eight hundred and fifty XP missed.

"small" numbers indeed...

SUPER COIL ABILITY: Charge your shots for twice the damage, although the barrel must cool down before being used again. 6.5 second cooldown? Idk.

I like the idea of a passive shield, but all the abilities are active. Someone else had the idea a while ago though of a directional shield that deploys from the barrel of the tank and can recharge, activate/deactivate like the AEGIS for the MAX.

Of course, the AEGIS shield has enough problems as it is. But I do think its an interesting compromise.

Except if you play more than one faction a weapon that looks the same and has the same name now feels different. It would be better to just rename it, make it ES and change the look if you do that.

The strafe speed only works at distances outside of 150-200m and even then it is still squishy. Our hill climbing ability has already been nerfed. Magburn is the worst of the three abilities. Sure you can have it to get into places to get an angle but that as I stated earlier has already been nerfed, and using magburn in anything offensive (IE magburning over tanks) is suicide considering that belly shots count as rear shots.

Theoretical DPS, yes, but aren't you forgetting Saron's horrendous spread and spread cooldown. You have to pause around half a second to be able to stay accurate.

I agree that HE needs a buff due to having useless damage against infantry in exchange for a longer reload.

However, multiplying it by months sometime makes it seems as if there were a huge difference, which there is for HE, but not as much for HEAT and nearly 0 for AP.
Magrider HE: 4
Magrider HEAT: 7
Magrider AP: 13
Magrider AI Secondary: 4
Margrider AT Secondary: 12
Magrider Halberd: 15
Total Magrider AVKPH: 55

Prowler HE: 4
Prowler HEAT: 7
Prowler AP: 15
Prowler AI Secondary: 3
Prowler AT Secondary: 11
Prowler Halberd: 11
Total Prowler AVKPH: 51

Vanguard HE: 4
Vanguard HEAT: 7
Vanguard AP: 12
Vanguard AI Secondary: 3
Vanguard AT Secondary: 13
Vanguard Halberd: 12
Total Vanguard AVKPH: 51

Magrider HE: 32
Magrider HEAT: 21
Magrider AP: 19
Magrider AI Secondary: 61
Margrider AT Secondary: 23
Magrider Halberd: 30
Total Magrider AKPH: 186

Prowler HE: 42
Prowler HEAT: 24
Prowler AP: 24
Prowler AI Secondary: 59
Prowler AT Secondary: 19
Prowler Halberd: 22
Total Prowler AKPH: 190

Vanguard HE: 28
Vanguard HEAT: 19
Vanguard AP: 17
Vanguard AI Secondary: 66
Vanguard AT Secondary: 21
Vanguard Halberd: 26
Total Vanguard AKPH: 177

If you multiplied these numbers by 24x30, yes, the differences would be exaggerated, and pretty well, at least for Prowler. However, Magrider has only 1 more Vehicle Kills per hour than magrider, which is a difference for sure, but not a big one. Interestingly, the Vanguard HE and HEAT have the Same VKPH as its counterparts, and a buff would most likely upset that balance.

The problem with the Vanguard isn't the tank itself, it's the people driving it.

If you know how to drive a Vanguard; it is the single most powerful tank in the game. The problem is, most people don't know how to handle the Vanguard. The Vanguard isn't designed to chase targets like the Prowler, it isn't designed to evade incoming shots like the Magrider. It's design is more or less force your enemy to come to you, and that's how it needs to be played.

I'm only level 76 NC, but my Vanguard has racked up nearly 900 vehicle kills, and nearly 1800 infantry kills (and I don't use HEAT or HE), nor do I camp spawn rooms or vehicle pads. My tank usually stalks the alone, by itself, flanking enemy positions, sometimes rolling in places with overwhelming odds where I wouldn't ever consider taking a Prowler or Magrider (when I play those factions). I've got 73 hours booked in the Vanguard so far, and I wouldn't change a thing about it... buffing it would make it overkill. When I roll a Vanguard, it's a near guarantee at least 3-4 enemy vehicles are going down, whether they are 2/2 or not, and a number of aircraft with them.... and if I'm not soloing it and have a good top gunner, the TR/VS are lucky if their entire armour column will survive it.

Vanguard = One man army, when played right.

Buffing anything Vanguard would result in a OP tank; and yes, speaking as a Vanguard driver, the shield did need that previous nerf.

And there's no problem with the old scat-max from beta. It was the skill of the players using it!

Or the liberator a few months back!
Clearly the issue is an entire faction comprised of hundreds of players, many of which play the other factions as well and consider that in their feedback.

Care to link this NC account where you have clearly mastered the vehicle that so many others have failed in?

Keep in mind though that the measurement is per hour of use.

In other words if each side has only 1 MBT each then the difference is not that big in terms of affecting the outcome of a battle.

But if each side has 20 MBTs each then the performance differences add up more much quickly, and at that level I think it could determine the outcome of a particular fight over a particular base.

do you think it can't?

Yeah! The Prowler wasn't designed for this as well! It doesn't benefit from letting other vehicles come to him while he's Anchored and can cash out double the DPS of his opponents!
Haven't you ever had a Prowler sit somewhere on a inconspicuous hill overlooking the road where reinforcements are coming from, and when the enemy tank is in full view away from cover they simply annihilate you?
Haven't you ever been backstabbed by a Magrider or Prowler? The Magrider sitting on a hard-to-reach spot, capable of floating backwards and being out of view instantly. Or the Prowler simply driving to a nice distance, achoring and using it's incredible DPS to kill you all? It takes about 4 shots from behind to kill a Vanguard, they can kill 3 tanks easily before people even realize he's there.
Same with the Vanguard, you can ofcourse outmaneuver everyone. These aren't faction-specific tactics that "only" the Vanguard can use.

Do you **** gold bricks as well? Does everything you touch become gold?
I've done a search, but your mystic godlike no-lame-tactics ultra Vanguard driver can't be found that easily. Can you name him?

And the Prowler can as well. There's also a reason the Magrider is the top tank-destroyer...

Speaking as one single "Vanguard driver" using a TR icon while the closest character with your name (Meekalew) is a BR100 TR?
Prove that you are this god-person in a Vanguard first. Then make a few guides for us peasants on how to drive the Vanguard. My outfit (Oh so pretty) is the 46th best outfit of all servers, we do tanks-raids with Vanguards all the time. We are good, incredibly good... but we aren't as godly as you proclaim.

1. Never seen a force of just MBTs, there are usually around 10 MBTs, 5 Lightnings, and a few Sunderers.
2. Unless the Vanguards are fighting a few hexs away from the nearest MBT spawn (which would be pretty silly) There would be plenty of time to pull more Vanguards. They would eventually lose, but only after hours of fighting, during which other factors can turn the fight.

Look me up, my NC is SteelPrincess.

Nearly 1000 vehicle kills, and nearly 1800 infantry kills in a Vanguard. When I pull the Vanguard, I solo it about 95% of the time. And I'm far from a pro player, casual player at best. The only time I have trouble dominating any other tank in my Vanguard is when its against a tank 2/2 with highly experienced players and they are sporting dual AV weapons. The Vanguard is just fine right where it is, if it were any more powerful it'd be seriously OP. Either that, or I'm way more skilled than I thought I was... which is really not the case.

What are you getting off on? I don't claim to be godly; What I am saying is that I am a casual player at the best. My whole point is that if I can roll over every other tank solo with a Vanguard in a direct fight (except a 2/2 dual AV with experienced players), then the Vanguard is a pretty damn tough tank. I don't claim to be exceptionally skilled, never did, but maybe I should start teaching people how to use a Vanguard properly, apparently everyone dropped out of tank school in the NC.

With that said, here's the extent of skills of most tank players in PS2: Pull tank, join column, roll down middle of street, get C4'd or flanked by smarter tank drivers; and then claim themselves to be good at what they do and say the tank sucks because they're tank school drop outs.

Good tankers expect to be flanked and prepare for it, better tank drivers flank the flankers and ambush the ambush.

Btw, my NC is SteelPrincess, level 77 on Emerald.

And you're right, I am also Meekalew and used the Prowler quite extensively; and in my experience in both using the Prowler and destroying the Prowler... anchor mode is your worst enemy; the Prowler is designed to be a fast, mobile, quick turning hunter-killer, and to use anchor mode negates -all- of the Prowler's advantages. It doesn't matter if you have better DPS at range if you're an easier target... because I can hit you at the same range while moving, something you cannot do, which means you've already lost your tank the moment you fire your first shot. I've probably killed more vehicles with a non-anchored Prowler in a couple hours than anyone ever has with anchor mode in a week. I can't even recall being killed by an anchor mode Prowler, it's probably happened at some point, but I know I've killed plenty of them. As for the Magrider, yep, the Magrider is designed to be elusive and evasive, a hard to hit target; but it comes at a price... the Magrider is a poor tank at distance, and designed for medium distance engagements. The weakness for the Magrider is they're easy to avoid at distance and easy targets if you engage up close... hell, you can roll your tank under a Magrider to destabilize it and shoot it from below as you do as it wobbles about uncontrollably. A tactic I often used in Prowlers and Lightnings to take out 2/2 Magriders; the 2nd gunner has a hard time hitting you when you're under it, and the whole Magrider has to turn to hit you as they're easy to flank that way; with that said, there's a reason why the Magrider is one of the best performing tanks; because the VS are usually more organized and collaborated, and Magriders almost always come with good drivers/gunners; something the TR and NC are often short on.

And yep, I use Magriders too.