Valid reasoning on why the NS-15M should have been changed during the LMG changes.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. Poppington

    Honestly, almost every NS weapon has a ES variant on all 3 factions that do the same job but better. The only one we can't say that about is the NS7-PDW and MKV (they are basically the same gun). I personally don't like the other NS weapons because every time I use one, I feel like I would have rather brought one more suited for the role I'm in. With life and death happening so fast in this game, versatility of a weapon - in my opinion - isn't as valuable as having the right gun for what you intend to do with that life.
  2. SW0V

    No, it wasn't. The LMG balance pass patch was to balance the LMG's to be sidegrades. Previously, each faction had one or two 'good' LMG's and the others were never used. Post patch, each faction has a diverse set of LMG's that they can choose to fit their playstyle and still be competitive.

    The removal of the 0.75 ADS multiplier on the VS LMGs was due to the fact that these LMG's had both the 0.75 ADS multiplier and they were tied for highest DPS on an LMG in the game @ 143 dmg and 750 RPM. That's what was broken. It was a combination of these stats and not 0.75 ADS as a standalone stat. The NS-15M does NOT have 750 RPM and is therefore NOT broken.

    If you have a CQC LMG and you lose to an NS-15M in CQC, you got out played.
  3. ridicOne

    There are no ES guns that compair to NS weapons for accuracy. The skill floor is the bottom of the barrel. Likewise you shouldn't be able to compair the 3 factions there should be differences. So no I disagree with you.
  4. Scr1nRusher

    That is true, but its goal was also to take 0.75 ADS off LMG's. Which they did do for the ES LMG's but not all LMG's.

    0.75 ADs was proven to be broken on LMG's simply do to the design of LMG's & how 0.75 ADS interacts with the HA shield.


    Right.... that can't be any other reason at all.
  5. SW0V

    Link me where any of the developers ever said this. I don't remember any one ever saying that 0.75 ADS was being removed from ALL LMGs.

    Just because you say something was 'proven' doesn't make it so. 0.75 ADS on LMG's per se is not what was proven to be broken. What was 'proven' was that the Orion and Betelgeuse were performing better than any other LMG in the game. The playerbase and later the developers agreed that it was a combination of the killing power and the movement bonus. So... ONE of these features was dialed down. They could have just as easily lowered the Orion and Betelgeuse's RoF to 652 to achieve the same result. But then the VS would have been left without a real CQC LMG.

    Please don't be childish. I'm trying to keep my arguments factual please do the same.

    In case it wasn't clear my argument is:

    Orion + Betelgeuse lost their 0.75 ADSm because the combination of firepower and mobility made them too powerful. The NS-15M does not have the firepower. Therefore, it should not lose its mobility advantage.
  6. Poppington

    I'll use TR as an example, simply because by and large TR has more horizontal recoil, which is the hardest to adjust to. Also, TR is known for having the weakest longer range guns on average.

    Light Assault/Engineer: The Cougar is very, very similar to the NS-11C. However, the Cougar is much more specialized to long range than the NS-11C, and ends up performing better in that role. Their stats are slightly varied, but overall accuracy is the same. However, if you don't like that comparison because the cougar is based off an NC platform, we could talk about the T5 AMC which is arguably slightly worse in the accuracy department if you only look at blooms. But when you compare first shot multiplier and bullet velocity, the TMC is better for ranged work.

    Medic: SABR-13 is cheating. It's so much stronger than the NS-11A, so I'll ignore it. Aside from the SABR, TR medics kind of get unlucky in the long range department (but the Cycler isn't too bad), so I would concede this point if I didn't say that each empire as at least one gun stronger than the NS variants.

    Heavy: Between the Rhino and the TMG-50, you're more than set with TR long range LMGs. The Rhino is more controllable, but has a slower TTK while the TMG is less accurate, but hits harder. Ultimately though, since your only basis for superiority is accuracy(which is hilariously flawed, by the way) I have to talk about one of my least favorite TR LMGs: the Rhino. It is actually similar to our Cougar comparison which is that it's as accurate as the NS-15M, just with different stats. The major difference here though, if we focus on long range fighting, is the Rhino's lower FSM, which is huge for long range combat.

    Again, I want to restate that TR is known for having the weakest ES ranged options - and still has a better ES option for long distance in every category but SMG.
  7. Scr1nRusher

    I linked it in the Thread.

    And I agree with that, it was a combination of factors.

    But I can also point out that LMG's balance wise are supposed to be slower & heavier then AR's,carbines etc.
  8. SW0V

    Yes.... you did.... you even copy pasted the 'quote'. But you didn't read it properly.

    "The Goal..We have seen a significant amount on concern with the .75 ads movement modifier on LMG’s. We intend to remove the modifier on ES LMG's while compensating for it elsewhere"

    Note the use of the "ES" acronym?

    Because they never intended to change the NS LMG's because there was no concern over the NS LMG's because the NS LMG's aren't brokenly OP.
  9. SW0V

    Can you really?

    Go. Point out where LMG's are consistently slower/heavier than Carbines and/or Assault rifles.... and then show me that the NS-15M is any different.
  10. Scr1nRusher

    You really are getting upset over this aren't you?
  11. Scr1nRusher

    That quote says if you pay attention that they are aware of issues with 0.75 ADS being on LMG's.
  12. SW0V

    No. I'm pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about. None of your points are consistent with facts or stats of any kind.
  13. ridicOne

    The problem is your worried about damage. I'm talking bout recoil and cof which NS is superior to any ES weapon in game even the Vanu which is a faction trait. ES weapons don't compair for overall ease of use or accuracy to the NS. I'm talking across all factions nothing specific. Even at falloff the NS weapons are crazy effective.... its all bout NOMING faces...
  14. SW0V

    That quote, if you pay attention, says nothing about removing 0.75 ADS from the NS weapons. Yes, you can become a politician with your attention to detail that the prior sentence doesn't specifically mention ES LMG's and just mentions the broader term 'LMG's'. But the reality is that ES LMG's is what they were referring to as they specify this in the latter sentence.
  15. Scr1nRusher

    I actually know what I am talking about, My OP is actually really filled with info.

    But its not my problem if you won't listen.
  16. Scr1nRusher

    I explained this in the OP.............

    They removed 0.75 ADS off the ES LMG's, but not all LMG's.

    Yet they clearly know & understand that yes 0.75 ADS on a LMG causes balance issues.
  17. Shiaari

    NS weapons were included because of the existence of "common pool" weapons, vehicles and aircraft in the original game.

    NS weapons serve a very important purpose: They provide continuity between factions allowing for an easier learning curve and a more consistent play experience for players moving between factions. That's great versatility.

    That being said, I don't think any LMG in the game needs 0.75 ADS. The defining feature of NS weapons should not be that they have 0.75 ADS, but simply that they are available to everyone. The LMG shouldn't depend on it.

    There is no real need for the NS-15M to have 0.75 ADS other than to satisfy the users who depend on 0.75 ADAD spam to make their kills. For Heavies wanting 0.75 ADS there is always the NS SMG lineup. Having a 0.75 ADS LMG is too helpful to the class in general.
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  18. Wind_Walker

    Noming faces really depends on your familiarity with the gun, nothing more. Someone could easily do the same with an ES weapon, and be better at it. NS weapons are a "Jack of all trades" type, and a valid one at that. each NS gun is designed to be flexible and adaptable to all situations, but never to replace any one ES gun for the same role.

    For example, Let's take the ARs. The 11A is definitely adaptable with it's select fire, decent damage, and quick reload. Not to mention the amount of attachments you can place on it. However, it really only gets used for one of two reasons: 1) The player is a faction jumper and they're familiar with the weapon, or 2) The player doesn't know what to expect. Both of these reasons are completely understandable, but let's say it was going to be a CQC battle. Ease of use can only take you so far. I'd rather take a dedicated CQC AR (TAR or TRV in my case) than the 11A, specifically because it's not the best choice. it never is. it's GOOD at a lot of things, it's just not the BEST.

    Taking that logic over to the LMGs, The 15M is certainly easy to use, but it's TTK is pretty awful in comparison to other ES long range LMGs. the ease of use is to compensate for that. IIRC, it takes about half the clip (give or take) to down one person in the average fight. That would mean 2-3 people on average per mag. Not a lot, even if you're accurate. To make it competitive, it would need a good reload speed and low recoil, which it does have.

    NS weapons tend to have a trend that is "pitiful TTK w/ ease of use."

    As for why it's everywhere, it's all because of one thing: CONVENIENCE. More than likely, the person equipped with it likes the idea of adaptability and/or the faction jumping potential when buying it with DBC. The funny thing is the default weapons are pretty adaptable too, they're just not announced as such. so that would leave the NS weapons with Faction jumping (and to the enemies who like to listen, the confusion factor).
  19. Wind_Walker

    NS features versatility rather than the .75 ADS, which is to compensate for the slow TTK. The availability would be considered another nice feature, but I think the intent was never solely about the ADS speed.

    As for the 15M, personally, I think it's doing fine. I don't use it anymore, but it's pitiful CQC capabilities would warrant the inclusion of a higher ADS speed, no? IMO, I don't think .75 does much once you learn how to aim. But if so many people are going on about it, I guess it does SOMETHING.
  20. ridicOne

    TTK never said anything about that all I've talked about is accuracy which apparently is a flawed thing even though it's a faction trait... NS weapons in the hands of the right players are extremely lethal. They are basically point and click weapons. Yes NOMing faces does matter over body shots this is not flawed logic. Does that mean their TTK is king, nope but being able to land constant headshots on basically every shot you take is a mighty fine thing.