V-30F Starfall needs a nerf

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Tr34, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. Demigan

    During the ZOE helldays, VS MAX's weren't used that often by that many people. But it was the impact it had, rather than the amount of players using it that mattered.

    If a single player uses a certain weapon only once a day but it completely screws over one faction, you can still claim it doesn't impact the meta "because too few people are using it and not much". But how much it actually impacts the meta is important here.

    Even a single Starfall Flash between a bunch of vehicles often has a massive impact on the battle there. Vehicles that would normally have survived and repaired up are now destroyed, the extra damage one of these does in a single moment against opponents can completely change your stance from "I'll have time to get to cover/beat this enemy" to "holy crap I'm dead now".
  2. Pacster3

    LOL...ZOE wasn't used that much? Hell, I used it and I saw ZOE ALL around me. It did kill left and right..air, vehicles and infantry alike. We are talking about a whole different level of meta impact there.

    You know what? I'm defending it BECAUSE Flash was pretty non-existent in this game and all was about Harassers and Prowlers/Vanguards(or Lightnings in case of Vanu cause Magrider is crap as single player). I would like the Flash to become a part of the Meta...and any step in that direction is fine with me. That being said I got a fully certed Starfall(and Fury, by the way). I was one of the first to get it...and used it like 5 times so far...and only once with some success. If it's nerfed I won't miss it that much...it's just another gimmicky stuff VS had that got nerfed to absolute utter uselessness. Like Magrider, Comets, Lancer, Lasher, Vortex, ZOE, PPA(on any platform). They only got it right with Saron, the rest was all overtuned. If you weaken Starfall, why the hell should anyone use it over the Fury...which nobody has been using for several years?

    The Vanguard as well as the scatmax shield is a different story. They rule fights for several years already. They are established...and it's pretty proven that they own the meta. To say that they are barely competitive can only be a joke. No similar skilled player of an other faction has a chance in a realistic 1on1(and sorry, realistic is not like 400m away from each other). I don't think that anyone is picking his class or vehicle with Starfall Flashes in mind...
  3. Movoza

    Hey we're already back to the gibberish! I say A, you say something that is only slightly related and is a very empty. I mean what? You've cared all along? For a weapon that "isn't missed", but apparently does bring the flashes a step closer? So it is like quantum mechanics? It is both good for the meta, it doesn't matter, it is both and it is neither?

    And you aren't creative enough to improve it in a different way than the fury? Give it more distance but less damage for example?

    You're just screaming on the internet to get your wish and aren't articulate enough to say anything of sense. The gun isn't fun for a lot of people, so change it. It can even stay just as powerful, as long as people don't feel it like that. Is that something you don't understand?

    But enough from trying to think from your perspective. The potential is too high for such a cheap thing. Change it.
  4. Blam320

    The same logic here applies to the Fury.

    Honestly AV weapons should be locked from cloaked flashes altogether. They give too much power to a team of two without needing to pull a dedicated AV vehicle, like the Harasser or an MBT.
  5. Pacster3

    But they are dedicated AV weapons. If you pull a harasser or 2 Flashes should not make much of a difference...actually I think the Flashes would even be more dedicated than the Harasser(at leats when you use the Starfall...Fury can at least be used against infantry, tho I would not really recomment it cause you are too vulnerable yourself).

    You are right. That's exactly what I feel about your posts. You miss my points entirely or try to twist them in some odd way. It can't be that hard to understand that Starfall is OBVIOUSLY not really a part of the meta but if it makes the Flash being used once in a while(which does NOT make it a part of the meta) then I'm more than fine with it. But that's obviously something too difficult for your brain.

    Go ahead, give it less damage and more range...then you will not see the Flash at all(cause the cloak will hide it completely) and it does not matter if it needs 1 or 2 reloads to kill you. This forum will be filled with NC and TR tears for sure...
    You can't really weaken the Starfall or you will have a worse Fury...and nobody used Fury(or Flash) during the last years.

    If you want to talk about stuff that needs to go cause people don't "feel" like they are fair then you need to get rid of all OHK-stuff, all ESF and tanks. And people get killed much more by those than by Starfall. What kind of dull and subjective logic is that?

    If you got a problem to understand my english you are most welcome to talk to me in german or french and I'll explain it to you. English is just my third language.
  6. Villanuk

  7. Demigan

    The whole strength of ZOE was it's ability to run&gun with the immense healthpool of a MAX, which was powerful against infantry but not against tanks or aircraft. So thanks for telling everyone you are full of it.

    So because you are bad with the Starfall it's all OK, but at the same time the Starfall is useful right now but would be nerfed into nothingness like "another gimmicky stuff VS had"? Good story!

    Show me the proof of this oh great magician, because it's going to be one hell of a magic trick to prove that.

    Except the Fury takes longer to get to it's damage potential and has way more vulnerability as it is exposed longer. Also to make sure it gets it's full damage off it needs to slow down a lot more.

    Is the Fury Flash not good for the game? Oh hell yes! I in fact made posts about this more than 3 years ago by now. This however has more to do with the Wraith ability than the Fury itself. And compared to the Fury the Starfall is absolutely godlike. It hits all the right things: Fires in quick bursts, low drop, good velocity, reload can always be quicker but for any normal maneuvering it reloads fast enough etc. This is ideal for a Wraith Flash that survives by exposing itself as little as possible and wants to be moving fast almost all of the time.

    The actual solution to all of this is extremely simple: Give Flash weapons (and the backseat rider) a delay before they can open fire. And I mean something like a 4 second delay, and perhaps a louder decloak sound with maybe a charging sound as your weapons come online again to notify people. That way you can still shoot and cloak away, but your attack needs to be better planned instead of "drive up and decloak at the last second". I would think that cloaking passed people, decloaking a ways away and then coming in for a flank attack would be a perfect battle tactic that rewards situational awareness for both sides. It gives enemies a better chance to react but also the users a chance to still make use of the weapons and capabilities of the Flash. And for 50 resources it would still be a good deal compared to grenades or similar.
  8. CplRDaWiggy

    All I know is I kill more vehicles in a cloaked buggy than I kill in fully certed anti-armour tanks. With considerable ease.

    Its not even worth trying to defend or deny this absurdity. A 50 nanite vehicle stomping the crap out of tanks is plainly stupid. VS having various tools nerfed in the past is no defence for this.
  9. Corezer

    High alpha weapons suit the flash, there need to be others for other factions.
    Wraith needs to be on all flashes passively and not class exclusive
    Now flash packs can play with the big boys

    Higher nanite cost (100-150)
    2-3 second cloak reactivation timer
    Lower damage on these weapons. They should be able to dump their damage and move out quickly, but should need more than one run to get the job done
    cloak should cancel your other option (no turbo/radar)
  10. Pacster3

    Don't talk about the ZOE if you have obviously not been there and used it. You really got no idea(not the first time for you tho).

    I just need to play the game to see how the battlefield is swarmed with Flahes...not. No matter how much you drama queens freak out on forumside...the proof is in the game for everyone to see and experience. You not gonna change that.

    The Fury was in the game for years. The Flash was hardly ever used aside from transportation. If something changes that(and only if all that what you claim here would be true then Starfall would do that) and makes the game more diverse, I'm all for that. If the Starfall really makes FLashes being used then it's downright stupid to want to bring it below Fury level....cause Fury didnÄt do anything for Flashes.
    Thanks for showing that you have been a forumside drama queen already 3 years ago and all your doomsaying was obviously SO WRONG. Doesn't seem like you learned anything out of it. I somehow got the feeling you are one of those vehicle farmers that always cry out loud when something comes into the game that might seriously endanger you while no-skill shelling away from some hill.
    You get grenades at hand, you don't need to run to a terminal and you are not at risk at driving right on a mine outside the terminal(if you spawn in them...and at least on my end the spawning into vehicle is quite often bugged). A grenade is low skill and low risk...Flash is the opposit. It should be rewarded much higher than grenades. That's called balancing.

    I'd love to see that on the battlefield. I mean, okay, if the tank is a solo magrider than that is not too surprising...but that's cause the magrider is crap. I got the feeling that you have not auraxiumed the Starfall..and that's not cause it is that great but because you dislike sitting on a glasscannon that drives over the field and suddenly blows up due to OHK(which I'm sure happens to most Flashes before killing anything).

    I wonder how people can do Starfall magic but pretend to not be able to hit a Flash with a shell. Do you get a sudden aiming skill boost when you jump on a Flash? =)
  11. Pacster3

    What you suggest doesn't work. I mean, even without all your nerfs the Fury didn't make it into the game. It just was non-existent on the battlefield. You can not nerf anything or it will not get used at all...just like before.
    If people hate the Starfall and think it's too strong...fine...but where are their solutions to make the Flash part of the vehicle-meta? Fury just didn't do it...neither did Renegade...they have just been there to farm sunderer spawns. Nerfing never helped any toy to get more usage time.

    And there is a clear "NO" for cloaked Flash for all classes. It's fine that only the most vulnerable class(that anyway has a cloak) can use the cloak mechanism of it. At that point the Flash would again become just a no-skill transportation unit...this time for cloaked c4...which would be even more dangerous than the Starfall. Whether it got a weapon or how long it will need to recloak wouldn't matter at all. And I just dislike the idea of having heavies going anywhere cloaked and then jumping off and shooting you while having the advantage of surprise....it should need at least 2 players on a glass cannon to pull that kind of stuff off.
  12. Movoza

    Frankly I've had it with you. In threads before you've been rambling on without anything substantial. If you want to claim you do add anything be my guest, but I'm done trying to argue. I mean as an example you've never even shown the very dissimilar fury and starfall why they are somehow practically identical. The only thing they share is a close DPS over time, but you just keep banging that dead horse like it makes sense.
  13. Demigan

    Let's see...
    "my experience says so"
    "you must be bad/not there when it happened+insults"
    "no statistics but my experience says so again".

    Not much new is there? It's just the usual BS attempts to avoid having to actually prove anything.
  14. Pacster3

    Yeah, the only thing that they have in common is that a Fury kills a Prowler faster than a Starfall. But hey, that doesn't matter at all when you are complaining about Starfall killing targets in no time... ;-)
  15. Pacster3

    You, my friend, claimed that the ZOE was just used vs infantry. If someone claims stuff like that then he should rather be really quiet.
    Go ahead, the video about the Starfall vs Fury is out there, you have seen it. All the other stuff you claim has no statistical backup either. Mine can at least be witnessed by just playing the game...anyone can see it there. You are just talking about "how you feel about something"...and you guessed it right: Your feelings don't matter at all to me and they are far from facts.
  16. Demigan

    ZOE was only OP against infantry and not much used against vehicles. You are talking about the period where a burster MAX that only rendered at +/-50m was incapable of killing an ESF before it either got away or killed the MAX. You can lie about your experiences or even believe your warped idea of the game, but that doesnt make it true.

    Also the Starfall last time I checked had a significantly higher KD/h, higher VKD/h and better KD's for each.

    All you have is a video of a stationary Flash shooting an empty tank that doesnt retaliate or react. This is as if you compare a sniper to a midrange Carbine and go "see in perfect conditions against stationary targets the sniper always wins so it's better" while in all practical scenario's the sniper will rarely outperform a Carbine.
  17. Pacster3

    Says the dude that posted videos of stationary MAXes shooting at each other to prove how crappy Scatmaxes are. There the ingame situation(which is mostly CQC...for a smart MAX anyway) suddenly does not matter anymore...

    By the way...in game at the normal distances that a sniper fights(and usually has the first attack due to cloak) a sniper with some aim almost always wins. I don't know under which cirmcumstance you usually hit on snipers...but mine are commonly not standing in front of my gun when they start shooting at me. ;-)

    Show me your statistics. You just claim something and do not even say what you compare those to. That's rich...and if you got such statistics(that are hopefully not from dasanfall...cause those are not up to date at all) then you surely got statistics as well how often they are pulled compared to other vehicles...;-)
  18. Demigan

    The video on the MAX was sound as it showed multiple distances and attempted to take randomness/player skill out for good results. Also MAX's MO when engaging eachother is generally slowly strafing while Flash combat is about firing, cloaking and then driving around to shake enemies seeing you before returning to combat. That last bit is way different than some Flash's standing still shooting stationary targets.

    Also you are a little troll arent you? I repeatedly ask you for showing any proof at all but you fail to produce any, and then you ask me to show me mine? You've seen the previous threads about the Starfall I presume so you should have seen some of my sources there and your point is moot. If you havent, look there or just open Dasanfall.
  19. Corezer

    That's the renegade's place in the meta, and it does this very well, and is very useful, and would be seen more if it weren't restricted to the least played class and I could pull one... in a flash... rather than having to run back to the equipment terminal to change classes for a vehicle (something I don't have to do for any other vehicle BTW)

    That class, btw, isn't the most vulnerable. This isn't 2012, the infil has full HP with NAC (which one should always pick when using a flash seeing as cloak type doesn't effect wraith cloak duration) and is the best suited to live through a redeploy timer should the need to bail arise.

    The flash is already a no-skill transportation unit for C4, sticking c4 to a buddy's wraith is a super common tactic, and this wouldn't change if you didn't have to run back to the equipment terminal when you wanted to pull one. Even when playing solo, I've never had a problem getting someone to squad up with me for this tactic by simply speaking in local, so your concern isn't legitimate as it already exists in game. The counter is being able to spot the flash using EOD hud (or rather the floating icons) and deployment shield. It would be super uncommon to see the driver dismount to detonate their own C4 because the success rate is much lower than having someone else do it from a safe location.

    heavies already do this, it's called a rumble seat. whether it's one or 2 players on a wraith flash changes nothing, it doesn't increase their likelihood of early detection. Either way, a heavy appears out of nowhere and starts shooting at you, the only difference is if the heavy did it themselves a flash would appear on radar as it rolled by without cloak, and there wouldn't be a 2nd guy shooting at you with a renegade...

    The only way the starfall, it its current state, is ok, is if you remove rumble seats, and I'd rather have a lower damage starfall that I augment with a rocket launcher because, believe it or not, coordinating with another player and sharing the goofy hijinks is more fun for most users and more balanced for the tankers.
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