Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

perhaps the magrider's velocity & gravity shouldn't be touched because its not a normal traditional "Tank"?

This is very different than IRL obviously. High velocity is always better for accuracy, but being able to shoot over cover is a small benefit only present in this video game that some people like.

My point is, it's not accurate to lob projectiles.

Dalton has gotten terrible against infantry, been ages since one killed me.
I think Dalton did not need a nerf at all.

They just needed to nerf composite armour, and give all vehicles slightly better top armour and top angle.

Which the guy you replied to wasn't talking about. Everyone knows that less drop = more accurate.

If you can't adapt to the unique advantage you have that is not the games fault. The mag is pretty accurate once you get used to it's drop, there are some very good videos on Youtube of Mag drivers taking advantage of the strengths the Mag has over it's rivals. I recommend Calisai as an example of how a Mag should be used

It also makes the game play unique. We may as well just remove all MBT and just replace them with an NS variant, let's all copy and paste

I don't care if you like it, at range, lobbing projectiles is very inaccurate. Every weapon the VS has, other than the main gun for the magrider, has no drop.

I really disagree with the changes to the Liberator Platform. Tanks in this game needed the improvements and I do feel it will make them more viable in the ground meta game. But the Liberator as it is, was fine. If you feel like the Vektor or other weapons aren't used enough, maybe it's because they aren't that useful to begin with?

There is a lot of risk involved flying a Liberator. Yes, there are times where you will find very little resistance and it makes flying the platform a lot easier. But that goes for any vehicle in the game as it is. It's not the fault of any skilled pilot if his opposition can't figure out a way to fight back or his faction fails to secure air superiority.

Either way, seems all to be a mood point at this stage as these changes will be made tocater to the majority of people (Most of them don't seem to be so great with the liberator) rather then being based on facts.

Well.....


.....

....


*Glances at long list of gravity affected VS weapons*



Yeahhhhh. 'Bout that.

Well I never claimed it was VERY accurate just can be pretty accurate once you become accustomed to it's drop.

My main point though was you have a unique advantage that when used correctly is strong.

Also the Mag advantages extend past lobbing shells from 300m. It's added maneuverability and ease at making it over terrain the other tanks can't hope to accomplish make it the perfect ambush vehicle. You can close the gap much easier and come from angles the other 2 MBT can't. Stealth will make your day much nicer.

The Mag is a strong tank, people however think that trying to use it exactly the same as a Vanguard or Prowler is the right way to utilize it... it is not

I must say all these balacne changes are bringing people out of the woodwork that rarely if never post on the forums in the first place.

Nerfing liberators must have kicked a beehive in the community.


its quite amusing when gameplay wise the changes will work out. SOE isn't going to do a harasser 2.0.

Also Certain weapons will be getting buffs to improve them on there roles.


just wait for the hard numbers.

Tank Velocities

For tank velocity there is no need to decrease the velocities of tanks because you have to keep in mind the numerous very accurate long range infantry AV weapons tanks have to go up against in the open field which pose a very significant threat. This is already a problem in high elevations where there is nothing behind infantry to splash damage off and infantry only need to peek out a small part of their bodies, fire, then hide and reload again.

The Lancer has a range of like 600 meters. You can't even shoot at them until their within 300 meters, and even then they shoot very high velocity shots allowing them to charge, peek out and fire, then hide behind cover again. The slower the tank round the more guessing on when to fire, and more limited window you have to react, aim, and fire for the shell to land in time.

Lock on's have a range of 300 meters, other than a maxed out Anchor Mode AP Prowler shots on infantry that aren't standing completely still are a real challenge to hit as is. This is particularly the case for infantry standing t

AV turrets have a range of 450 meters, and they still have problems rendering from past 300 meters. However when they do render from around 400 meters away it's a challenge to hit them, as they represent a tiny black pixel hiding behind a multi-pixel turret icon. Those are also a pain to hit even with the current tank velocities.

You have AV Maxes which can sit at 300 meters strafing back and forth between cover while hitting you with as well and being repaired by Engineers as they absorb much of the damage with Flak armor.

So unless all infantry AV weapons are getting a small universal range nerf alongside this change it will make infantry more powerful in the place they shouldn't be, which is in the open field. Please keep this in mind Kevin, after over 400 hours of tanking I can say long range infantry AV is a significant detriment on open field battles between tanks and this stands to just make things worse regardless of the velocity shift.

Liberator Nose Guns

I would recommend buffing the other options as well, like the vector or spur, regardless of your final decision on the tank buster because the Liberator nose guns needs more variety. Also I would highly recommend taking a good look at the duster on the Liberator as that thing is piece of garbage and is highly outclassed by its alternatives, much like the Vulcan on the Prowler.

you really believe that with what they listed? they are nerfing the lib and every single way accept maneuvering, it is going to be worse then before they buffed it for whatever reason

this time its different.



I'm waiting to see the hard numbers/the actual patchnotes + if we can test them.

Thats more important then fighting over a forum post.

I know This time around SOE is really thinking about all the angles of this.


And by the communities reaction they better, but also not chicken out.

Nice updates, except the tank projectile speed.
I think it is ok the way it is, making it slower will not result in bigger tank fights, it will result in no tanks on the battlefield.


But I would also like to see an other "nerf" for ESFs.
I would like to see that they die of 1 tank shell direct hit.
This is allready the thing for Vanguards and Magriders, but I would also like to see it on Prowlers and Lightnings.
If you manage to hit an ESF with a tank shell, you deserve the kill and there is no logic in a low armor target surviving a shell.


Edit:

I read through the thread and had to agree with some things:

- Nerfing the Dalton projectile speed is absurd, it is allready less effective enough. I say that from the view as a gunner who noticed how ineffective it became and as an infantry and tank player who didn't get killed by it since months.
- Nerfing the tank burster is not the right way. It is a short range weapon only, if enemies let a Liberator come close enought to get tankburstered they should learn to pay attention. I think buffing the other weapons would be a better solution. They should be buffed anyways, regardless of what happens to the Tankburster.
- The Shredder is OP agains MAXes. I don't think they even survive 10 hits, seen as a gunner and a MAX. MAXes can't retreat if shreddered. They notice they are being shot by a Shredder, they are dead before they can really do anything than thinking "****".
The Bulldog is the Bulldog. Not easy to hit with after 50 meters, if enemie ESFs come close enought to be hit it is their own fault, seen as a Mosquito pilot who facepalms himself when I got killed by a Bulldog / Dalton / Zephyr. I don't get mad, I just think "Shouldn't have gotten that close."

In addition i think you should nerf the Sharon laser gun for VS.
75 shots mag and a 3 hit kill against infantry?
Well, it is OK if you give the Enforcer the same magazine size (I play TR and I hate it, but srsly, the VS thing...) and increase the Vulcans efective range to 150 meters.

"The tank buster has a 90+% equip rate and completely eclipses the other nose gun options. It is too effective against heavily armored targets and has improper risk vs reward. We’ll be lowering its damage so that it is closer to the Vektor. It will still be stronger, just not by such a huge margin."
Lol, just lol. The only reason people pull the tank buster at all is because of the high DPS at short ranges. If it is changed there is absolutely no reason to pull a Tank buster instead of a vector since the vector is infinitely more accurate.

I am pretty sure you are pulling that out of your bum. Where does it say anything about handling or resistance against flak reduction? Or do you seriously think an aircraft should be able to facetank and AA unit one-on-one?

That's messed up.

I think more people need to quote this, to make sure it gets noticed.

I support the guy who quoted him above me.

Divinorium said: ↑

“AI : Prowler > Magrider > Vanguard
AV: Vanguard > Magrider > Prowler
Magrider is the not good at anything but not bad at anything guy. That's balance.

And this patch gives 1 magrider advantage to the other 2: Turret stabilization.

Contrary to what SOE, who clearly don't play tanks, believe the buff in the reversal speed don't help against C4 kamikase.
Magrider was hard to C4 because it was never standing still. It was always strafing in completely unpredictable patterns.

The other 2 can only go forward and backward. And it's about that. Buffin ONE of these speeds isn't going to help.

"but now you can shoot the guy while retreating". If i'm already on the run, moving, the C4 attempt was already fooled. Shooting the guy with C4 while moving is only a plus.

And in Tank combat these changes only have effect if he is with the side turned to you. What gives you the advantage of the front X side armor.

Meanwhile they are reducing te armor shell speed. what could possibly be a buff to the magrider.(he gets hit less then the other 2.)

I don't like neither of these changes in fact the only "good" change i see in the whole post is the reduction of liberators resistance.(everyone knew and said it was a horrible idea.)

The others changes to lib aren't needed.
The airhammer i don't use i can't say much.

And the tanks, besides the turret stabilization, are all horrible.

But you already claiming that's a nerf magrider patch/post/theorycrafting. Is pathetic.



Yeh but why you are nerfing the tanks even further? we already are walled outside of the base.
At <50 range Infantry WILL C4 us.
At 50~100 range Decimator will make us cry.
At 100~150 range Lock on takes 1.5 secs to lock.
At 250~300 range range infantry doesn't reliably render. It only takes 2 platoon to rockets start to render from the thin air.
At >300 range infantry doesn't render, but still hitting us.

We only have a set range to work and you want us to get closer? Seriously? You believe that incresing the reversal speed will make a miracle or something?
And you realize that there's enough clear space so i can keep running and shooting to turret stabilization work are the same places Infantry rocket will destroy us because it's a flat place and there's no cover? EG: Between Quartz Ridge and Indar excavation.

Tanks doesn't come close of the bases, because close of the bases means walls, C4 fairies AND Lock on launchers.

You can't ask us to come close when these 3 things still around.

And that shows how you guys DON'T know how to balance the game. You are nerfing tanks in a patch/thread/theorycrafting that were supposed to buff tanks.

PS: IF you want balance LIB you can do 2 things: Remove the Resistance to rocket and shells.
Buff skyguard. How?
Just throwing some idea:
Make it be considered AP damage
Past that it start to explode like it does now and the explosion damage is Flak damage.

That would mean that nows Skyguard does more damage at close range, but still retain the needed flak explosion at longer ranges. AND it's actually usefull against others things besides Air.

That's all you need.”

I fly libs occasionally, not a super pro like some others ive seen. To echo the other posts here, you going too far in the opposite direction.
Here is my opinion on the proposed changes.

Liberator Changes

For Liberators, we need to better balance the risk vs reward factor. We feel the risk for the Liberator is not high enough in most situations. Here are the changes we’re working on to address this:

• Effective range of Belly guns is being reduced. This consists of slowing down the projectiles.

We feel the current range makes it too hard for ground forces to defend against the Liberator and makes it too easy for the Liberator to escape once it comes under fire. Lowering the range puts the Liberator more at risk and gives ground forces more time to respond, whether it is ducking for cover or returning fire.

• Roles of belly guns are being better defined and receiving a reduction in effectiveness versus personnel (except for the duster)
  • Dalton is intended to be the premiere anti-tank weapon

OK with this. how many shots to kill a tank ? weapon definition is awesome. should be more effective than an AP tank round. If I have to hover above a tank and hit it 6 times to kill it....no good. If an AP tank round kills in 5 hits, the dalton should be 4.

• • Zepher will be similar to Dalton, doing slightly less tank damage, but being slightly better at anti-personnel due to its 6 round magazine
  • OK
  • Shredder will be similar to Zepher in terms of tank damage, but by virtue of being a chain gun it will be slightly better against fast movers (harassers, aircraft)
  • OK
  • Duster is intended to be the premiere anti-personnel weapon and will be receiving some buffs
  • We will see. Currently it is useless, cant hit anything with it, regardless of firing single vs volley.
• Ammo capacity is being lowered on all belly guns
  • This is also part of the risk vs reward. These guns have so much ammo that they can just be spammed. This change is intended to make gunners think about whether or not a shot is a waste of ammo.
  • OK

The bulldog will be receiving similar treatment that the belly guns are. Its effective range will be reduced and its roll better defined. Right now it’s good at everything including being better at anti-air than the walker. We’ll be reducing the projectile speed and possibly the blast damage to push it towards its intended role of a supplemental anti-ground weapon.

OK

The tank buster has a 90+% equip rate and completely eclipses the other nose gun options. It is too effective against heavily armored targets and has improper risk vs reward. We’ll be lowering its damage so that it is closer to the Vektor. It will still be stronger, just not by such a huge margin.
With this change, it will depend on the TTK for this weapon. Its called the tank buster for crying out loud. and you have to be very low to actually hit anything. you talk about risk and reward. With the reverting of the resist changes, plus the audible changes, there is more than enough risk for the lib to NOT nerf the TB. one pass with all rounds hitting, with increased mag size should kill a tank, if shot from the rear. Make an option for rear armor for tanks if they are the issue.

vektor: needs a role. perhaps a less effective yet more accurate at range armor option.

TB is for Armor, and it makes sense for the Spur to be the AI weapon. one suggestion about the Spur however. Allow the Tail gunner to toggle between the control this gun and the TG. Pilot needs to fly. Since you cannot control the flying while aiming the gun, and in order to hit anything you almost have to be hovering which is a death wish for any aircraft. please rethink this.

Finally, the improvements to Liberator stock resistance to tank rounds and some heavy assault rockets made during the Liberator update are being reverted. The original change reduced too much risk. The stock Liberator will be back to being destroyed in around 2 hits from these weapons. Composite armor will still provide additional resistance but will ultimately be less than the current version.
OK with this. Risk vs reward : This is where it is at. If you reduce the resistance, then you increase the chance of dying, which means the lib will not be able to loiter over an area as long. I am ok with this. Since your reducing the range of weaponry its forcing the lib to be lower/closer to targets which is also increasing the change of dying. I am ok with this. however If you also nerf the weapon systems too much, you are now removing the reward from the equation. I agree with the above weapon role definations, but they need to be effective in their role.

Lib gods honestly think this and that they are entitled to free reign over everything and that they are 1337 for daltoning air units.