Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kevmo, Jun 6, 2014.

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  1. p10k56

    Why they are nerfing lolpods against vehicles?
    With new tank buffs it will be rather difficult to hit constant moving target.
    SOE should rather implement different warhead certs something like HE,HEAT and AP lolpods instead nerfing it.
  2. Kevmo Developer

    Some clarification and answers for some of the common questions / discussion points I've seen.

    Details on the tank velocity changes

    For the tank velocity changes we are looking at adding 1 gravity for all tanks (from 4 to 5) and changing how velocity scales, using Magrider HEAT as the baseline.

    Right now Magrider HEAT has a velocity of 200. That will likely remain unchanged. Currently the next ‘tier’ up (Magrider AP, Prowler HEAT) increases the velocity by 25, and the next ‘tier’ increases it by another 25, and so on. What we are considering is lowering the increases of 25 to increases of 15. So Magrider and Prowler HEAT would end up with 215 instead of 225, Prowler AP and Vanguard HEAT at 230 instead of 250, etc.

    So the Magrider will be the least affected from the velocity change.

    How does the reverse speed change affect Racer / Rival?

    Racer will increase both forward and reverse speeds.
    Rival will no longer have a bonus to reverse speed.

    We realize this may cause Rival to become less attractive and we’ve got some thoughts on how to improve the Rival chassis if this happens.

    Details on Liberator range changes

    Similar to the tank changes, we are using Zepher as a base line and intend to lower the Dalton match the Zepher. Currently Zepher has a velocity of 200 mps (which is identical to a Magrider HEAT round) and we’re considering bringing it down to 175 (which would be identical to a HE tank round).

    Details on Tank Buster changes

    I’m seeing a lot of comments that the issue is not the tank buster is too good, it’s that the other nose guns are bad. And instead we should buff those.

    The simple reply to this is the Tank Buster is so far out of line compared to the other guns, the first step we need to do is bring it closer in line. Once they are closer we can make a better assessment on where the nose guns are and make further adjustments.

    The feedback is tank buster is too good and the numbers back this up (and not just equip rate numbers). The alternate approach does not help us fix that.
    • Up x 9
  3. Divinorium

    AI : Prowler > Magrider > Vanguard
    AV: Vanguard > Magrider > Prowler
    Magrider is the not good at anything but not bad at anything guy. That's balance.

    And this patch gives 1 magrider advantage to the other 2: Turret stabilization.

    Contrary to what SOE, who clearly don't play tanks, believe the buff in the reversal speed don't help against C4 kamikase.
    Magrider was hard to C4 because it was never standing still. It was always strafing in completely unpredictable patterns.

    The other 2 can only go forward and backward. And it's about that. Buffin ONE of these speeds isn't going to help.

    "but now you can shoot the guy while retreating". If i'm already on the run, moving, the C4 attempt was already fooled. Shooting the guy with C4 while moving is only a plus.

    And in Tank combat these changes only have effect if he is with the side turned to you. What gives you the advantage of the front X side armor.

    Meanwhile they are reducing te armor shell speed. what could possibly be a buff to the magrider.(he gets hit less then the other 2.)

    I don't like neither of these changes in fact the only "good" change i see in the whole post is the reduction of liberators resistance.(everyone knew and said it was a horrible idea.)

    The others changes to lib aren't needed.
    The airhammer i don't use i can't say much.

    And the tanks, besides the turret stabilization, are all horrible.

    But you already claiming that's a nerf magrider patch/post/theorycrafting. Is pathetic.

    Yeh but why you are nerfing the tanks even further? we already are walled outside of the base.
    At <50 range Infantry WILL C4 us.
    At 50~100 range Decimator will make us cry.
    At 100~150 range Lock on takes 1.5 secs to lock.
    At 250~300 range range infantry doesn't reliably render. It only takes 2 platoon to rockets start to render from the thin air.
    At >300 range infantry doesn't render, but still hitting us.

    We only have a set range to work and you want us to get closer? Seriously? You believe that incresing the reversal speed will make a miracle or something?
    And you realize that there's enough clear space so i can keep running and shooting to turret stabilization work are the same places Infantry rocket will destroy us because it's a flat place and there's no cover? EG: Between Quartz Ridge and Indar excavation.

    Tanks doesn't come close of the bases, because close of the bases means walls, C4 fairies AND Lock on launchers.

    You can't ask us to come close when these 3 things still around.

    And that shows how you guys DON'T know how to balance the game. You are nerfing tanks in a patch/thread/theorycrafting that were supposed to buff tanks.

    PS: IF you want balance LIB you can do 2 things: Remove the Resistance to rocket and shells.
    Buff skyguard. How?
    Just throwing some idea:
    Make it be considered AP damage
    Past that it start to explode like it does now and the explosion damage is Flak damage.

    That would mean that nows Skyguard does more damage at close range, but still retain the needed flak explosion at longer ranges. AND it's actually usefull against others things besides Air.

    That's all you need.
    • Up x 5
  4. SlingBlade

    I linked my player stats at the end of the post so you obviously only skimmed my post and started talking out your rear. I am a BR 100 with over 67 days of /playtime. A lot of that is within vehicles or as a heavy/smg infiltrator. I have spent days of /playtime in the MBT's, libs and esf's that all got nerfs with this proposal and I think they are great changes that help the overall balance of the game.

    Just because I don't mind taking a hit on overpowered things that disrupt the quality of gameplay doesn't mean I am an player with no experience. I just want to have fun and for this games community to flourish. That won't happen with tank,lib and rocketpod spam that has gone on for far too long. They need appropriate tweaks to better fit in with this game.

    Here are my stats again because you obviously missed it the first time
  5. NewEnglandNole

    As someone who doesn't fly Lib's and hates them with a passion (especially when they are camping a spawn room with impunity), all I can say is it's about time. The tears of ******** Lib pilots are delicious to me.
    • Up x 5
  6. Darsh

    Darn.. Was hoping they'd finally introduce the 3 man Tanks.. Still think adding a module players can cert in to convert the current tanks into 3 man vehicles, would be Awesome.

    Love the idea of having a dedicated main gunner on tanks and a dedicated secondary gunner (like currently). Driver would he able to focus mostly on driving but could also get a forward facing anti infantry weapon like the Kobalt, with a very narrow angle of liberty (similar to flash weapons), simply to allow the driver to shoot down soft targets directly on front of the tank.
    Since the vehicle would absolutely require at Least 2 players to be combat effective, it could receive a bonus to armor and weapon damage when compared to its 2 man variant.

    Of course I'd also be happy with SOE simply introducing a completely new heavy tank (3 man).

    Anyways, I'm not sure his the new changes will affect the game.. We'll have to see.
  7. Scr1nRusher

    haha, I'm a very tactical person. And fighting TR harasser squads have taught me alot of things....
  8. SlingBlade

    Any clarification on how the stabilization of TR/NC tanks and increased maneuverability of the tanks will have an unintended consequence of nerfing the magrider? Will the magrider get an increase somewhere else in order to compensate for the buff to the NC/TR tanks?
    • Up x 2
  9. grinko

    The cause for this is that the Liberator pilot is actively penalized for using the other noseguns, because lining up the belly gun does more damage both in burst and sustained.

    The Tank Buster does high burst damage, which combined with the belly gun allows temporarily higher DPS than the belly gun alone. However, the Lib has to be in almost point blank range.

    If you just nerf the tankbuster, all Liberator pilots will simply not bother with the nosegun and just line up the belly gun from the start.

    Please take a look at what you have done to the Harasser and learn from your mistakes. Incremental nerfs instead of sledgehammer balancing.
    • Up x 1
  10. Scr1nRusher

    nice response, that really clears up alot of things.

    You should really buff rival, and Also Buff the Spur aswell.
  11. Thurwell

    I can't argue with the lib changes, except that it would be nice if you'd finally fix coyotes while you're buffing and nerfing vehicles.

    They're kind of like the AV mana turret, we've been telling you they're broken since day 1 (or day 3 or so when you overbuffed them), but for some reason it's not getting through.
    • Up x 1
  12. eisiger

    Sorry for picking one point in this post:
    They most definitely should, but only underneath the Liberator. From what the OP is trying to get at (and what the Liberator has claimed to be since inception), everything from the Liberator to the ground should die. However, the tail gunner and the nose gun should be the biggest threat to enemy aircraft, not the A2G guns (unless they are low enough to be within the firing arc).
    • Up x 2
  13. SlingBlade

    Agreed, their Rate of fire and reload speed are incredibly high for the amount of damage they do. Also if you get stuck close to an esf and try to out turn him and he fires the coyotes they do a full 180 and hit you. They need a cap on how much they can turn.
    • Up x 1
  14. HandofWinter

    Presumably the Magrider will get stabilization as well, which will help a bit. It was always a more stable firing platform, but real stabilization should help make a difference. I do think that the magriders strengths should be a bit stronger, with much better strafe speed and possibly a small jump ability. It's a harasser and while lightly armoured should be much maneuverable than the MBTs the other factions have.
  15. MrJengles

    People have wanted stabilized turrets since beta. That's an improvement to TR and NC tanks just as you said, albeit incredibly late.

    This update isn't about the Magrider performing too well and getting nerfed. You're complaining about past grievances.

    Again, if the Magrider needs to be better in some way then push for that change, not holding back the other tanks.

    Side topic, if every ability performed like ZOE then infantry would have been even more farmable than they are against MAXes now. Also, charge would be useless. Weapons/abilities aren't just balanced against each other but every other element of the game they interact with. ZOE stood out as too good but yes it was over nerfed.
  16. SlingBlade

    Agreed it's far too effectively currently against aircraft. I suspect the velocity nerf will fix that completely though so I don't think we should end to the one hit kill against ESF if the velocity change goes through. I rarely get killed by daltons because I keep a distance but I spend the vast majority of time running away from a vehicle that is supposed to specialize against ground but is really good against air.

    Its not as bad as a thought, but the extra gravity is very displeasing. The magrider will now shoot a plasma rainbow.
    So much for the

    "Low Arch Main cannon" - Planetside 2 wiki
  18. Alarox

    Thanks for clarifying with specifics. These are not as significant as I had originally thought. I have two additional questions if you don't mind elaborating.

    1.) Will a similar treatment be applied to AV secondaries?

    2.) Would you mind explaining this a bit further?

    The stabilization and increased reverse speed should make getting in closer much safer and appealing. Are the velocity/gravity changes only meant to encourage us to get in closer, or is there some other balance reason?

  19. Tuco

    Making it faster to back up behind cover to repair your tank means more players are going to park near cover so they can back up behind cover to repair.

    If you want to speed up tank combat in decrease gravity and increase shell velocity so you can hit more easily on the move.

    These 2 things will have the opposite of the desired effect.
    • Up x 1
  20. PWGuy93

    My frustration stems from in game reality, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE of the under populated faction.
    It's that cycle, that wave of population disadvantage that has me so angry with the changes to tanks, their velocity and range.

    Having to get in closer with less accuracy looks like it's going to make the side with the higher population just roll over the underpopulated side even more than they can today.

    Instead of how it plays out in game now through slowing down an assault and deterring the inevitable slaughter, the underpopulated side will be steamrolled.

    Would love to hear how these changes for tanks take POPULATION into account.

    Today the joy of tanking isn't the zerg, it's moving from fight to fight before inevitable continent lock. Playing on the underpopulated side means we have a slice of time to play while we can in the vehicle we enjoy before we're trapped in our warpgate or one of the nearby bases. How will these changes give us that same amount of time, that slice of time where we can play?

    I'm not seeing the upside. Help me see the upside.
    • Up x 2
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