Two Horse Race

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Phsychotica, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Jestunhi

    I suppose you are one of the people who thinks the factions need to be cloned to be balanced?

    They can't have different advantages and disadvantages. 1 TR HA has to equal 1 NC HA, 1 NC ESF has to equal 1 VS ESF.

    That's not how a game of this scale is balanced.

    And you don't base balance on a minority of weapons. Perhaps the default weapons need changes, but that;'s a different discussion from "Buff NC". The same with flinch discussion, that's whether a feature should be removed not a reason to buff NC.
  2. ForceM

    God dammit it is because there is a point to it that's all the explanation there needs to be. Balance the game and it will stop!
  3. Bill Hicks

    VS is gonna get nurfed hard
  4. Fligsnurt

    I dont think anyone quite understands how true this post is. Point of fact is that in a perfect world, where there is no recoil, no being hit recoil, and every bullet hit its pretty balanced. The issue is, in current game mechanics (IE: TTK and damage recoil), that RoF superior weapons will consistently be dominant. Which means factions with RoF dominant weapons will all ways have an advantage. You can try and argue that every faction has high RoF weapons avail to them, this is true. But the issue is that most of these (for the NC anyways) require massive cert / smed sheckles to unlock. This isn't fair for base gameplay. Who is going to wait around in a faction that is default UP in the RoF department just to acquire a weapon that allows you to be competitive later.

    My first weapon I bought was the ACX-11 (slower RoF, higher damage, 20 round clip) after about a week of using it I felt really weak in most combat situations unless I was firing on a target w/out taking damage. Then I bought the GD-7F and that weapon is by far the proof of this matter. My ability to go toe to toe with any other inf class was actually even if not giving me an advantage. I can counter the recoil just fine and the GD-7F is a beast with the recoil. But what makes it the best weapon for carbines bar none is the RoF. You can learn recoil all you want but you can't learn the damage recoil you receive from taking fire. Because you can't learn all players play style (IE: full auto vs burst firing and rounds per burst, RoF, Deviation, bullets they can land per second. all of these factors fluctuate per player) and this effectively makes it impossible for lower RoF weapons to be on par with higher RoF weapons. With exclusions to shotguns, though they seem quirky at best most of the time.

    May I recommend that SoE hosts a test server and funnels players into infantry combat. On this server they remove the recoiling damage effect all together and see how balanced gun play seems after that.
    • Up x 1
  5. 13lackCats


    Thank you for explaining it.
  6. 13lackCats

    I've been using the TMG-50 in close combat, and doing just fine.
  7. deaded

    NC weaponry is harder to use, hands down. Who cares about dmg potential standing still, bursting perfectly versus a pve dps dummy? For NC that have to perform while trying to stay somewhat mobile, and worst case getting shot, accuracy on NC guns are still quite hard to cope with. TR and VS weapons not so much under more stressful circumstances.

    As for the reaver, yes its like a f*kkn brick . It took a few days to get used to it, then I rolled VS/TR alts and I died abit inside. Scythe got insane handling while Mossie has the speed and acceleration plus abit of the handling. And they are both "lower", which seems to result in a smaller hitbox. Reaver has obesity as their faction's ESF strength. Also here, NC's weaponry is the hardest to use.

    And fyi, Ive L2P'd. I keep a nice k/d after days of getting used to this crap and upgrading / unlocking, but when I play VS/TR its amazing how easy and all-around-friendly their weaponry is. I wouldnt mind if SOE stated before creating character that "NC has full potential, but requires more skill, aiming and timing to use." so that blowhards (like the VS/TR in these threads) couldve join it, while I honestly wanted an easy-going all-around faction.
    • Up x 1
  8. Fligsnurt

    And I can guarentee you that if you use the T9-Carv you will do just as well if not better. Its just how the mechanics of gun play work in this game. Kudos for doing well with a lower RoF weapon though, more then a lot of players can say.
  9. deaded

    Yep, ROF is still king. If you are NC get the GD-7F, GR-22 and EM1 and youll start to perform a bit better. Its a shame you have to spend irl cash on this (and learn this thru forums, wasting certs on worse guns already), while VS and TR gets their easy-to-use fast guns from get-go.
  10. Rothnang

    If NC is so underpowered, how come they constantly outnumber the other factions on my server and almost always hold two continents?
  11. 13lackCats

    I dunno. tbh, I prefer to face VS because the weapons aren't as strong.

    "It's not who shoots first, it's who hits first".

    NC damage is more than enough to compensate for ROF, and as a low ROF guy, I can say I never notice flinching.
  12. Nehlis

    Meh, NC weapons are slightly weaker, and as an NC player I say don't QQ, take it in stride. Fighting from a disadvantage and winning means something.
  13. Fligsnurt

    What server? If you have more NC then the other factions your bound to have them dominating from pure over population.

    In ranges under 15m the flinching doesn't make a dif unless your aiming for headshots but inside this a higher RoF weapon (granted that both targets are equally skilled and start to fire at the same time) will in most cases pull out the win. Outside that range it effects you greatly for ADS engagements and RoF weapons give you the opertunity to land more shots more often on the target. Im noticing this more and more between the ACX-11 and GD-7F at any range. At medium range with the ACX I do 2-3 burst firing and with the GD-7F I do 4-5, taking about .25 seconds for adjustment and settling I can land more shots and kill faster with the GD-7F.

    I thought I would of loved slower RoF weapons, thats usually my play style, less rounds down range more shots on target. But its almost impossible for me to play like that in this game. Then again if the warden was brought into line with the carbines a bit for the engi I'd take that. I do love my Semi-Auto weapons. Also I'd say most of my experience has come from the use of carbines. And maybe slower RoF LMGs / HAs can stand a better chance.
  14. HerpTheDerp

    You are assuming that recoil calculation happens on per-bullet basis. This is likely not true.


    CARV has recoil of 0.4 and fire rate of 750. That gives it a hypothetical "recoil value" of 0.4 * 750 = 300.
    Saw has recoil of 0.55 and fire rate of 500. That gives it a hypothetical "recoil value" of 0.55 * 500 = 275.

    If the recoil-per-bullet theory is correct, then CARV should have more recoil than Saw. Does it?
  15. Jestunhi

    That calculation assumes 60 seconds of sustained firing (got enough ammo for that?), and we know that recoil has a limit as to how much the gun can be dragged upwards by recoil because the guns stop raising before they stop shooting.

    A more effective way of comparing it is something like recoil per second, a second worth of sustained fire is a loooong burst. A minute is entirely unrealistic.
  16. Gobla

    These are values ripped from the game files.

    You're telling me that the game server, which has to figure out the recoil per shot, is going to make complex calculations with that 0,4 or that 0,55 value in order to come to the 'real' recoil value?

    You're telling me that the server, which has to host up to 2.000 players each capable of firing multiple shots per second, is going to waste several processor cycles to go from that 0,4 value which it has in it's memory to this supposed 'real' recoil value on each and every single shot fired?


    The server, and thus the game files these numbers originate from, is going to hold the simplest possible value with which to calculate the recoil per shot as quickly and as efficiently as possible because that's the calculation it's going to have to make most often, several thousand times per second in very big firefights. It's going to hold the recoil per shot value as the simplest value to express the recoil per shot is by all logic, surprise, that very same value.
  17. HerpTheDerp

    It doesn't matter whether you take RPM values or divide them both by 60(or any other number); the ratio will still stay the same.

    @Gobla: Seems like you misunderstood me. Obviously the server is not calculating the recoil value, because as I've said it's purely hypothetical, made-up value to represent how much a gun would kick if recoil was indeed calculated on per-bullet basis(which should be simple addition in-game).
  18. lsp1

    Won't disagree about the bloom, but about inferior oh yes they are. I play TR and NC, and NC's CoF is HUGE. You can miss almost everything you sling at someone, unless you fire in 2-5round bursts. While TR just holds down lmb, same with VS if that's not unbalanced then I don't know what is. You can be shooting a guy as NC, not being shot at and still be missing(CoF) as with TR and VS where you point is where you hit. I snipe people with the trac-5(carbine) and carv(lmg) all the time just by holding down lmb.

    Just play Nc for awhile, then switch to TR or VS, the difference is immediately noticeable. Their accuracy and high RoF needs to go.
  19. 13lackCats

    Nice breakdown.

    I don't notice the flinching at long, medium range either, I struggle more with recoil than anything, especially because I chose laser sight over grip, trying to round out instead of specialize).
  20. mercTanko

    Are you a scholar?

    I don't mean to be a jerk, but claiming ALL the complaints boil down to your illogical conclusion doesnt actually make it true. Some complaints - ok, but not all.

    as an NC i feel weak compared to TR or Vanu but i can't put my finger on it - it feels like 1 vs 1 skilled players, NC will likely die first (from what i experienced)