Two Horse Race

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Phsychotica, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Phsychotica

    So I'm having to ask myself is it worth continuing to play? I play as NC and before this recent patch I knew there was something seriously wrong with the infantry balancing it was kind of obvious. Now after this patch not only has nothing changed on the infantry front we have been made dead last in the air? When I got annoyed by unfair deaths on foot I would take to the air to cool off and cross swords with other ESFs, I won some, I lost some but it felt reasonably even. Well... now I fly a brick, that's about it and that's all I'm going to say on that front.

    I'm not going to switch to a different faction because to me that just feels cheap but it seems like TR and VS are fairly even with infantry, VS wins with tanks and TR wins with air, what does that leave for NC? Snipers? Not anymore with the LA80 having its bullet velocity normalized. (Description says high bullet velocity)

    This may be just another 'NC is underpowered' thread but hey due to the number of them cropping up you might think there was something in it.

    Basically I'm asking:
    "Devs, is NC going to be brought back in line with the others anytime soon or should I come back in a year or two?''

    (I don't want to sound like a jerk but if you're just going to post "Another whine thread" or "L2P" or anything along those line, please, just don't.)
  2. GTGD

    More NC complaining about their gear not being the best across the board. All the complaints boil down to not being any good at the game. "Too much recoil!" and "But magriders can strafe and are hard to hit!"
  3. bPostal

    In another year or two the entire balance cycle will have repeated itself at least two dozen times.
  4. Phsychotica

    Please refer to the following:
    All complaints boil down to not being any good at the game?
    [IMG]
  5. newtis

    in my eyes NC rock inf close mid combat!

    VS rock far inf combat

    and well TR - what I am playing seems to not rock Inf Combat at all. So I try to avoid it when possible.

    and dont say L2P - I have a high BF3 k/d (1.76 after 330 hours) too..

    just pick the right situation you wanna fight in! you cant outshoot VS on a far range inf encounter - so just dont do it..

    what you have to learn is to give up when it neccessary! that kind of thing you can leanr with Poker too. Its tough to learn that. and its easy to get caught to try to defend vs a much bigger force just because your ego got scratched.. dont do it. go back - gather forces wait a bit and then rush like a power flood over the base^^
  6. ForceM

    Basically he is right, the infantry weapons have not been fixed at all, whi cares about bullet velocity if you can't hit as easily as with other factions.

    And he is even more right about the reaver. Why exactly was it nerfed. I would like to know that... The Scaythe was more manoeuvrable, and stable. The mossie was not good either because it was not as fast as it should have been. What do they do? Nerf Reaver speed.

    Now we have a plane that is not fast, not manoeuvrable, not stable. And don't say they are more durable and have more firepower. Because that is a myth. The Saron Laser is hands down the best weapon and kills faster than the Mustang or Vortek. At least in real game circumstances. (And yes i have tried the Scythe and Mossie so i know what i say exactly)

    So what do we have? Nothing but a Vanguard. But since Tanks get dominated by Libs and ESFs in fact we have nothing at all.
    And it will be a two horse race after some while.

    I understand that TR and Vanu wanna defend their pathetic little advantages at all cost but if they rather see a dead faction and deserted continents. Because what will happen if they allow server transfers? The NC will look where they can go in order to win by numbers on a few servers. Just like TR and Vanu. So what will happen is that unlike now a faction does not dominate a continent but a whole server. The only way to counter that is balance the factions. Perfectly. And the idea with 3 continents per server is not so great either...
  7. Birdrock

    It isn't about not having the best equipment across the board, it's about having the worst equipment across the board (with some minor exceptions). Honestly, which categories do you believe NC have the best equipment in? Back up your statement.

    Recoil requires a higher learning curve but can be adjusted for. What is impossible to adjust for is the bloom that results from the flinch mechanic. NC equipment suffers disproportionately from this mechanic. If a Gauss SAW hit produced more bloom than a Carv hit, there might be some parity. As it is, high fire rate is preferable because whether the hit barely scratches you or almost kills you, it'll produce the same bloom.
    • Up x 1
  8. D-Spirith

    Actually the NC is currently very underpopulated because of many factors like worst weapons and such.
    Also this is a great example:
    [IMG]
  9. TheBloodEagle

    Not being a ****** but this is thrown in without context and back info. Is it from all the servers combined, one server, when was it taken, beta? yesterday? etc
  10. DeadlyShoe

    Even if, for the sake of argument, NC gear is underpowered... it's only by a very little. Pretty much every factor matters more.
  11. Keelin

    I don't know what the cause is - it could be weapons or anything else; but the NC are losing players and it worries me a lot.
    I don't want to play some other faction but what will happen when everyone leaves the NC for some other faction?
    The people that leave won't come back that's almost for sure. So will all the time and money spent be down the drain when ultimately there's not enough NC left to put up a fight?
  12. Gobla

    \o/ time to explain the situation yet again, maybe someone will listen.

    Are NC weapons inferior to those of other factions?
    No, they're not. NC weapons are statistically different but not inferior. Their high damage compensates for their low rate of fire and their high recoil evens out over time when you consider their rate of fire. Someone caught by surprise by a skilled NC player will die just as quickly as to both other factions, provided he doesn't fire back.

    What the hell do you mean, provided he doesn't fire back?
    Right, this is where the legitimacy of the NC complaints comes in even though their weapons are not inferior. What's happening is the interaction between Planetside 2's flinch mechanism with high RoF weaponry. This flinch mechanism causes a small amount of recoil every time you get hit, regardless of how much damage the hit did. For this reason a weapon doing 1 damage but firing 10.000rpm is superior to one doing 10 damage and firing 1.000rpm, it does the exact same damage but causes 10 times as many flinches on your target, throwing their aim off significantly more then they do yours. Once their aim has been thrown off they'll no longer be hitting you as frequently, further reducing their effective rate of fire, causing you to flinch even less and land even more shots on them, causing them to miss even more shots, causing you to hit even more etc. etc. etc. until they die.

    So what? TR is OP and needs to be nerfed and poor NC needs to be buffed all over?
    Nah, not really. Even TR has their share of lower RoF weaponry which are currently being outperformed in live combat situations by their high RoF counterparts. And even the NC has a few higher RoF weapons which in turn outperform most of their other weapons. Whilst this flinch mechanism impacts the NC the most it does impact every single faction, creating an imbalanced and unfair preference for high RoF weaponry, especially on ranges where those weapons can fire full-auto. This flinch mechanic needs to be changed so that all factions can have a choice based on their own personal preference between varied yet equally viable weapons.
    • Up x 2
  13. Jestunhi

    NC will never do as well as the others.

    Because the other factions play the game, gaining experience both ingame and of the game mechanics / maps / etc.

    Whereas the NC are on the forum all day whining about how bad they are.

    re: RoF

    NC have an 846 RPM carbine (fastest carbine in the game, tied for fastest gun in the game) and a 800 RPM assault rifle (tied with VS's best, TR ahead with their 846 RPM gun). It's only really LMG where the rate of fire difference is really felt, or only if you focus on a small subset of weapons (i.e. default weapons).
  14. Nephera

    If someone could do a measure of how far a two shot burst can hit a target with both shots if aimed at center of mass that'd be great, I feel NC's effective burst range is considerably shorter.
  15. Jestunhi

    This would only measure the speed at which the cone of fire increases, since recoil is simple to counter, especially in bursts as short as 2 bullets.

    As such, a single stat on the weapons can tell us this.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ApH3DlM1yfRAdDJ5N2VoR3IxbEtTTnRRTE1taFVJdlE&gid=1

    Scroll right until you reach the stat "COF_recoil", that's the amount the CoF increases per shot.

    You can also do some calculations based on the weapons refire time to get the CoF increase per second of sustained fire (for example).
  16. Phrygen

    The reaver bug/nerf resulted in me no longer playing my NC at all.

    Frankly i've been playing dota 2, hoping account/faction wide purchases go through quickly. Cant play without pods and bursters.
  17. Nephera

    by countering do you mean countering the recoil from each burst or from each bullet?
  18. Jestunhi

    Whatever you want to shoot.

    It's quite simple, it just requires practice. Weapons drills and firing ranges to improve your accuracy is hardly some new concept, it's what's been done with projectile weapons pretty much since they were invented.

    If you shoot 5 shot bursts then you should focus on getting the amount of recoil adjustment required for a 5 shot burst into your muscle memory.

    Practice, practice, practice. And soon you will be automatically countering the recoil.

    :edit:

  19. Birdrock

    Way to straw man and act like a total ****.

    It happens that this small subset of weapons is a majority of weapons that are deployed, and have a huge impact on the balance of power.

    Try reading the explanation above your rant to see what the true problem is. If you don't support a normalization or related fix of the flinch system, you don't want balance. If that is the case, just say it so we can speak to you in your language.
    • Up x 1
  20. 13lackCats

    It is interesting that this type of thing comes up again and again.

    I wonder if it is a demographic indicator of who chooses which side.