Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SLiCKRiCK, Dec 18, 2013.
Yes, i admit i went a lot off-topic, sorry about that.
yup, its my word.
now how many of your vehicle kills were using C4 compared to rockets? and should we start balancing the game after only your stats?
I just survived a c4 in my MAX suit and I don't use flak armor.
The thing that drives me the most nuts about it, is the nerf killed the ability to pop turrets on installations. I put 4 on a hacked turret, it got it smoking.. I laughed then logged out to go play soduku because that was more fun.
I have 1105 Vehicles kill in vehicles.
That means 1610 vehicles kills were infantry.
1610 - 430 Tank mine kills = 1190 Vehicle kills.
C-4 Explosive 561 40/h ↓0.024Δ C+ D U UNRΔ 19.292% N/A% 471 167 13.9h
But let's say i very rarely use only C4 to kill the vehicle? Why? Because C4+ Decimator do IK, IS faster and saves 100 Infantry resources.
NS Decimator Rocket launcher 965 21/h ↓1.267Δ D** C- C ↓0.209Δ 45.801% 2.280% 1,101 326
So yeah.... C4 is one of my main tools to deal with tanks.
"But divinorium that's only you your noob."
When you look at the players with more auraxiam in the game
You will realize that most of the players who lead the auraxiam medals score(so they don't just play 1~2 weapons) have More vehicles kills with C4 Then any other infantry weapon.
AND the players who doesn't have C4 as top vehicle kill.
Don't even have the Auraxiam with C4 yet, they don't use it.
So yeah. C4>Rockets when dealing with tanks.
But go ahead say how YOUR WORD is better than these stats.
Because the real basis for "Infantryside 2" comes from the ability to C4 tanks. Right.
You literally want no worries as you press B in your prowler beyond how much ammo you have. That is why people are being "immature" and comparing you to a baby. C4 is a ponderous way to kill tanks, and it caters to a certain sneaky playstyle. If it required two LAs, no one would bother because of how useless it would be to try to coordinate two people to land bricks on a tank that may be moving. But then again, I guess that's the point of your suggestion.
Also on the subject of the evils of "Infantryside 2", we already had "Vehicleside 2," and it sucked hard. The fact is that this is a more enjoyable game overall now. Pulling a prowler or vanguard still gives me a boatload of certs and kills. Is it an unstoppable HE farm machine like before? No, and that's good for the game.
I'm not sorry if that means people now get to enjoy the infantry aspect of the game at the expense of a little of your farming power.
2,715 vehicle kills total
167 kills with C4
326 kills with deci
combine vehicle kills 493 kills "with c4" total.
so 18% kills with C4 yes its so very OP isn't it? even if i assume that all of your deci kills on tanks are also using C4 and pad it up.
total vehicle kills 11,657
922 total C4 kills
542 total deci kills
1464 total vehicle kills with C4 and full deci padding
that's 12% even lower then you.
24,895 total vehicle kills
1,562 C4 kills
47 deci kills
1604 total deci and C4 kills
that's a whopping 6.44% holy ****!
10,842 total vehicle kills
819 C4 kills
he doesnt seem to use the deci
so that's 7.55% C4 kills by your logic. still not seeing it.
4,110 total vehicle kills
904 C4 kills
668 deci kills
assuming full deci padding thats 38% we might have one hit.
9,897 total vehicle kills
224 C4 kills
582 deci kills
806 total between the two
13,327 total vehicle kills
224 C4 kills
680 deci kills
thats 6.8 %
seems to me like they are getting a lot more vehicle kills from everything else. C4 is not the problem with tanks, its other issues. dedicated tankers want to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to the issue of tanks and other AV options. when in reality, C4 isn't what is even killing them most of the time.
Rockets? half of the amount.(Sorry bro i use Phoenix when i can't C4 it.) And in general i use this trick of C4+ Deci. That SHOULD count as a C4 kill, since it's the one doing most of the damage. So you can say that at lest 80% of my "vehicle kills with decimator" were in fact with C4. I was just too cheap to use 2 C4.
Point still stand: Best Infantry AV IS C4, even if you throw MAX in the math.
And my top vehicle kills is: Vanguard and Lightning, BEFORE they nerfed it to the ground made it cost 450 resources and added 7 (faction specifics AV/MAX AV and AV turret).
Right now my tools to deal with tanks are Phoenix, C4, tank mine. But hey Tanks are so useless that i don't even care about killing it anymore. Only if he REALLLY piss me off i will Really try to kill it. Otherwise i shoot whatever rocket launcher i'm carrying with it with the zerg and make it retreat/blow.
If you look at the top vehicle kills of these players it was with: ESF related weapon or Liberators.
NOW tell me how much ESF or liberators you see in big battles nowadays?
Best Anti vehicle in the game? Infantry.
Best infantry Anti vehicle in the game? C4.
But C4 IS SO HARD TO USE!1! imaright?
I dunno exactly how this data is working right now, BUT looks like the best weapon in the game is: C4!
(it probably shows a limited time frame but still curious you don't think?)
actually the stats you have linked so far show the best AV in the game is other vehicls, but ok.
OK now you are trolling aren't you?
Because like i've said:
IT WAS other vehicles, before the nerf hammer hit it. Now we have less vehicles, meaning we have less vehicle kills.
Unless you actually believe that all these vehicle kills with liberator/lolpod were made after the nerf of Air?
The problem is : light assault already was not much used compared to all other classes, harder to farm xp with him.. c4 was the only good thing he had.I think you should get rewarded trying to push in and take a tank\sunderer by surprise, risking the life to get closer
No you shouldn't. Specially when you risk nothing to do so, life? yeah sure you will respawn in 15 secs.
PS: want to talk about risk something? Added 1 min of wait to infantry respawn then you can say that.
PS2: and say that to the shotgun LA, i'm sure they will agree how LA is "weak".
Yes, LA can respawn and continually suicide rush you until he finally kills you The question is, why have you been sitting in that same spot the entire time?
Let's see. your tank costs 450 resources and gives you the potential to kill upwards of, oh, let's be conservative and say 20 people. You're able to do this from the relative safety of an armored vehicle while sitting at a range where only rockets can conceivably harm you. Even then, you're able to pull back behind cover and repair yourself before resuming the farm.
Infantry are free to spawn, but C4 costs 100 per stick. That's 200 resources for the chance to kill...a single person in a tank.
So, 450 resources to kill 20-30 people from long range inside an armored vehicle = fair.
200 resources to kill 1 person at close range as a vulnerable infantry = OP
20~30 People? only if you are in a prowler in a base that you already won.
And yet, C4 is the "best" weapon with the best score in the game.
Funny how the players defending C4 talk like it's a crappy weapon when score say otherwise.
PS: This stats is very likely showing only in a small timeframe. But i suppose it's the same timeframe for all the weapons.
And unless SOE come and throw the all time statistics, that's as close we can get.
PS2: Even if you come and say "Divinorium C4 is all 3 factions" just look the first Vanguard weapon.
Titan-150 HEAT 6.7 881,007 131,890 43 % 7,317,537 3,146,154 425,108,050
its only the best scoring weapon because all but one class can use it, and you can engage any target with it, this has nothing to do with how effective it is against tanks,.
Man I cant wait until the resource revamp so bad tankers can stop using this non argument. most time i pull a tank, unless I'm an idiot I will outlive my timer, and it amounts to pretty much the same thing with maxes. the timers are just there to keep baddies from spamming the things.
as its been pointed out, that if someone has already tried to C4 you, you now have the advantage of knowing they will likely try it again.
how do I know you aren't trolling, you basically said my word is worth **** but yours is worth more, since by your own admission these stats are useless for proving either side of this argument.
Yeah, because when C4 is the best performing weapon in the game there is no problem, at all.
And funny how ppl say "if someone tried to C4 you, you should move".
Like the guy trying to C4 me is a bot or some kinda of ****** who look and think "the that tank was in X and went to Y, i will try to C4 him at X location."
Unless he is a complete idiot. you moved? he will try to C4 where you are.
Unless you are talking about moving to another base and giving up in the fight.
PS: I just ask you a question, WHY c4 is outperforming Vehicles weapons in this game, if it was supposed to be 1~2 kills per use?
Why Tank weapons that can, like you were saying, "easily" kill 20~30 players have a smaller score then C4?
Why the Decimator, who is the same around all faction, is free and can OHK infantry is only with 1/3 of the kills of C4?
Are you sure that C4 is that hard to use?
PS2: before someone say "These kills counts infantry" well yeah. If C4 was so limited like you are trying to make it look why there's ppl using to kill infantry?
Actually the real basis for infantryside 2 comes from bad base/spawn design. Bad band-aid fixes which include nerfing the crap out of vehicle splash damage/radius and giving infantry extremely powerful and/or long range AV weapons which are no skill lock on's, To a much smaller extend Instagib C4 being given to almost every infantry class in the game is part of Infantryside2, but I will agree it's a much smaller part of the problem in comparison to everything else.
Saying I literally want no worries other than ammo is a strawman argument, and I offer you the challenge of quoting me within context in this thread that suggests I only want to have to worry about ammo. People are being immature because this is forumside and infantry don't want to lose their ability to just throw C4 at any part of a tank and be guaranteed a kill.
Actually if it required an LA to place C4 behind or on the rear of the tank that's fine with me. Flying above me and throwing it on the ground infront of the tank or lobbing it ontop of the tank shouldn't net you the kill on a full health tank. All I see is whining that you won't be able to kill tankers who are moving around much more, because the tunnel vision tankers that are sitting still you have all the time in the world to C4. But nope, no compromise on the part of infantry players in this thread. If you miss me completely and the C4 lands on the ground and nicks my front armor according to you my tank MBT deserves to blow up in a giant explosion.
"Vehicle side 2" was actually notablly better than infantryside for open field battles, because battles would regularly last 30 minutes well over an hour. That went away to a great extent when infantry didn't need to pull their own vehicles and could just run from base to base killing everything. The fact is playing infantry can easily net you more XP/certs than a tank can on average, and if a person wants to play on the front lines and be an asset for your team in a tank you are repairing constantly. Bringing up how HE isn't what it was irrelevant, because I haven't argued for HE to be returned to it's OP state. You also aren't going to be very helpful to your team as an HE tank, which is why I rarely ever use it.
Nope. 20-30 people throughout the life of the tank. Check that little data chart you're so fond of. C4 has the most kills, yes. It has the most score, yes. It also has a 1.7 K/D. So essentially, the chart states that it's used a lot because, hey, it's available to all classes, it gets a higher score through vehicle kills, since those -always- give a higher payout. But in terms of efficiency, it doesn't even rank on the first page because, well, people DIE when they use it.
Now, let's look at the high K/D weapons aaaaand, oh look! They're all vehicle mounted! Maurader, Fury, HE, Supernova, Zephyr. Man, the 120 HE averages 20 kills per death. The Marauder averages 25! C4? Averages 1.7. A C4 user gets 1.7 kills for every death.
So, as I said. Spend 450 resources, get 20 kills, fair. Spend 200 resources, get 1 kill, OP.
Hey, you can't complain about a strawman argument and then insert your own in the next paragraph. That's a technical foul. 2 minutes in the penalty box.
Well, somebody sure misses the ability to camp open windowed spawn rooms. Vehicleside was absolutely awful for everyone except the vehicles, hence why the devs spent all that time overhauling base design to combat it. Anyone who thinks of those as the glory days really needs to take a step back and reexamine themselves.
WE are on the same page with this. the C4 insta gib should only be on the back of the tank, you would see a lot less light assaults rushing you if this were the case.
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