Just rework the entire class system instead. Make the game like planetside 1 with inventory management and diffrent types of armor and speed penalties. Just add restrictions to cloaking/jetpack for some weapons. (thou tbh it would be ******* awesome to be running around with a rocket launcher as a infiltrator.) Then HAs would have the highest amount of HP/Shield (except MAX) but be the slowest. Infiltrators would have the lowest hp/shield but move insanely much faster than a HA. In Planetside 1 there was choice between Light armor , very fast, little inventory (1 primary gun, 1 pistol) Infiltration armor , very fast, very little inventory (only pistol slot) Medium armor , medium fast, medium inv (1 primary gun, 1 pistol) Heavy armor , slow, large inv (2 primary guns, 2 pistol) MAX , slowest, massive inv space. Most people were playing HA then but it was mainly because of the option to carry 2 guns. If you ever equipped your factions heavy weapon on a light armor then you would literally beat the **** out of these HAs because they had nearly no chance of keeping up with you. On last stands in large outpost fights I would often run to my locker and equip a TR chaingun (I was playing VS ofc, so it was stolen!) and then continue to wreak havoc on the poor sods. (BTW) Let us steal enemy equipment!!!
There is a basic reason why 50% of all players play mainly Heavy. Its the strongest class in the game. Lets look at it from a different perspective: Every class has something that grants them a tactical advantage over the general cause of the game (nothing 1v1 Infantry combat related i mean): Heavies have Rocket Launchers, AV nades vs Aircraft, Vehicles and MAXes Infiltrators have hacking + sniping Engineers have Repkit and AV potential (MANA, Tank Mines) Light Assaults have c4 fu Medics have heal, Shield bubble & revive This stuff wont help the particular class in a 1v1 situation. Now lets do some math: 1v1 Heavy vs. Infiltrator: Average human reaction time seems to be around 250ms, meaning the Infiltrator will get 250ms worth of damage into the enemy heavy because i assume he gets the drop on them by cleverly using his invis and after that time period the Heavy will react by activating his shield and firing back. Lets take a look at the only Melee weapon an infiltrator can use(considering all shots land on the chest, bullet travel is instant and no Nanoweave: The infiltrator would need an SMG with a DPS of more than 3k to win this fight (deal more than 750 damage in those precious 250ms he is being given by Vanu). With a reaction time of .4s he would need one with 1875 DPS but such a weapon does not exist so the Infiltrator loses. Same goes for Stalkers with commissioner/underboss. 1v1 Heavy vs. Engineer: So now, considering all the above for the Engineer who has no built-in mechanic to surprise enemies like the Infiltrator does. Thus he loses out on SMGs, Shotties, Pistols. He only has Carbines left to deal with the heavy while he has 1k life and the heavy has 1650. After doing some math I can safely say that there is no way this Engineer is going to kill the Heavy. There is no Carbine in the game that does 65% more DPS than an LMG at reasonable ranges. 1v1 Heavy vs. Medic: Well, the Medic has the same problem as the Engineer only with Assault Rifles and even after including the Medics heal and taking the weakest LMG against the strongest Assault Rifle the medic still loses. 1v1 Heavy vs. Light Assault: Ok, here i'm assuming again that the Light Assault gets the drop on the Heavy getting 250ms of free damage on him. The first interesting thing is that the LAT will win with Pump-Actions because they are the only Main Hand weapons that can onehit people without a headshot, which means the HA never gets a chance to retaliate and dies immediatly (btw my favorite way to fight against heavies, just dont give em a chance *g*). On other shotguns the LAT loses again cause he would need a >2.6k DPS weapon on 250ms reaction time. For Carbine letz just take the highest DPS carbine and one of the lower DPS LMGs and the Light Assault STILL loses out even with the positional advantage and having the surprise effect. So now you might say "but dude you didnt consider accuracy, bloom, and all those other sweet weapon stats" and you would be right but my problem is that especially in fights up to 50m those stats dont make that much of a difference. Even if the LMG has a lower Accuracy, higher bloom and bigger recoil the 2 or 3 more shots the Heavy misses because of that dont make up for the whopping 650 more effective health he has. The heavy has just too much in my opinion. It has the only reliable way to dispose Air Vehicles without a nanite cost (meaning it can counter stuff you paid for with nanites FOR FREE), has one of the only ways to dispose ground vehicles and MAXes without a nanite cost (while some ppl are considering the MANA turret to be OP aswell but thats not the point here) which in my opinion is really strong already and now also gets the ability to shred through infantry while having an insane amount of ammo and a regenerating shield that gives him the edge in every 1v1 fight despite his "weaker" weapons. Ive discussed this matter with my outfit mates aswell already and they just said the the HA is supposed to be the strongest Infantry class by design. But i wonder wheather it is good design that a class that has a strong arsenal against Vehicles, Aicraft and MAXes already is also strong at fighting off infantry. All of this is not considering Nanoweave which makes the Heavy even stronger because of course it stacks with his shield. Sorry for the Wall of Text. Thanks for reading, ~~
You are assuming a ridiculously fast reaction speed for your heavy but not factoring in headshots. If your heavy can return fire that quickly, your infil/la should be able to land a decent number of headshots -- this makes those initial .25s of surprise more valuable. If we are assuming newer players, they won't be able to land headshots reliably, but if the la/infil manages to open fire from an unexpected direction, it will take a very long time for them to return fire. As far as "is it healthy for one class to be the best direct combat class", I'd say that it is as long as the other classes have a reason to exist. All of the classes have unique and powerful abilities. Heavies may be the most common class, but gets played regularly.
I dunno where people are getting that Heavy Assault is the most lethal or most powerful class in the game. In my experience it's the class that is the least lethal, least effective, and least useful, because every second I play I end up dead because my shield only stands up to one bullet from a rival Heavy and then it's just gone. Maybe I'm just pessimistic and complaining, but after a while it gets real boring looking at that death screen wondering why the hell my shield is so useless. I could empty an entire magazine into a light assault from my SAW or EM1 and he'd still be standing, but two hits to the knees with his pistol with my shield on and I'm instantly dead. Honestly, I'm starting to question if it was even worth it to invest so much in my Heavy Assault loadouts, since I'm seeing the diminishing returns already. I'm starting to wonder if I should have just spent those certs on making my Sunderers stronger and just playing Engy and guarding the S-AMS all day. Seems to be the only thing I'm actually useful for anymore.
Cant seem to find it but there is a page listing the most played classes in order. Engineer(~29) was the most followed by Heavy(~25) and LA not the 50-60% people are saying. But in a given fight, i am sure you will find more Heavies if its a close indoor fight. Bring the tool that best fits the fight or simply play what you like and deal with the consequences. I love the engineer guns and mainly play that class for the past 12months, i do not engage a heavy head on unless i get the drop and close enough to land consistent headshots. If they get the drop on me, well i am dead regardless of class. But i have a sticky grenade which usually means they die too.
One more thing: The reason most people think there is 60% HA is they play wrong. You don't fight a lot of engineers because they are in vehicles, or repping the MAX typically behind the HA/maxes You don't fight the medics because they are staying out of fight to heal/revive teammates letting ha/max fight You don't fight the LA as they are always on the move, in trees on roofs, popping in windows etc. You probably actually die to them more than HA just not pissed because of a shield and remember it. Its the HA you always run into if your running around on the ground, into buildings, points etc. When you really should be supporting if your a support class. You kill when you have to, after the ha/max have damaged people. Or your positioned correctly to engage. If you play a support class and rambo into buildings expect to die to a lot of HA. Yes they all have great guns and fun to fight with, just don't act like an HA when playing support classes.
Engineers and medics are support. Light Assaults and Infiltrator are intended to have the element of surprise through positioning and stealth tactics. Heavy assaults are supposed to wreck your face on the front lines. One of these classes is designed for direct, on-foot confrontation. One of these classes is intended to have an ability that grants them a greater rate of survival when confronting enemy infantry directly, on foot, and usually on the front lines. I'm not seeing a problem with the above. I have no issues with infiltrators headshotting (Except when they do it at vehicle terminals) I have no issues with Light Assaults farting their way atop buildings and firing down at things. I have no issues with medics ressing people and providing fire support. I have no issues with Engies repairing things and driving vehicles. Why would I have an issue with a direct combat class having more shields? It's what they are there for. I wouldn't expect to win when bringing a shotgun to a high-range sniper fight, nor would I expect to win a direct confrontation with a HA when running around in a base as an uncloaked infiltrator with a beamer. The thing with the last scenario... is that you CAN win - if anything, HA shields have always felt weak to me, from either side of the equation. Just my two cents.
You can actually solo most HAs and get out with it most of the time (At least it's like that on Miller) To me, the shield is just "seal the deal" type of thing. Even if they pop it, they die anyways because it is too late. If I'm about to die, the shield doesn't change anything except the flashing color of the HA, I still die and don't get away with the kill. My problem with it is that the class can in a single loadout without switching to any other loadout kill everything with ease. 10 dudes coming toward you and you are in some good cover? Kill them all. A MAX? Just rocket-launcher his face and switch to a LMG and bash his face into the ground. ESFs? They get destroyed no matter what. Tanks? Same thing. If they let you choose between a RL + Battle Rifle/SMG or LMG + Grenade Launcher, then it won't be able to deal with everyything in a single swoop. The shield is flavor text, it's not what's making HA BS, it's the insane killing versatility and medkit spam. The class has it's role, but it at least needs one downside to make it balanced, either wreck MAXes and infantry or wreck MAXes and vehicles but with more penalties towards infantry combat.
the thread ? yes i'd agree the shield? nope every class has their own special ability infiltrator have their cloak, (anti infantry at range) medics their heal thingy, (support) engis have ammo packs, (support) LA their jetpack, ( ambushing ppl) and HA their shield (to be able to stand in the front line) each class is designed for a role to play and the HA is the frontline soldier he needs his shield on the frontline. to take out a HA you need to outplay him in his game ( 1vs1 situations) by simply ambushing him ( works great with LA) so he doesn't have that much time to react or you kill him from a distance ( infiltrator) if you want to take a HA out with a medic or engi... use your environment to your advance. if you see that he is poping up his shield get cover. wait for the shield to run out or he deactivates it ( to catch up to you because he is slower when the shield is on). oh and also aim for the head that helps alot when facing HA. ppl need to understand the roles of each class and how to use them in the right way.
When I get tired of trying to outsmart enemies as close range Infiltrator, I just take HA and get 2-3 kills per life, then get revived and go on killing things. Its really so easy to play. You don't need to think about anything. Just run and gun. And it actually works. That is the problem. Other classes have to be good and smart to survive and fulfil their purpose. HA just press F - LMB FTW. Shield is an ok mechanic. But it is too good against ambushes and in that "suddenly see an enemy in front of you" situations. So, it needs some 1,5 sec ramp up time. So, if HA thinks the enemy is there, he can turn on shield and enter. If he sees the enemy and is surprised, he has same chances as his enemy, not insta-win.
In every class-based game I see, there's always the class that people say is the 'easy' class. The class where you don't need to do anything other than point in a general direction, hit a button or two, and win. People always say that it needs nerfed, or that it needs fixed, or something like that. I find that in most cases people are just frustrated and want something to blame it on. But let's think about this. You take the HA, a trooper with a big gun that reduces his mobility drastically when it gets pulled up, and compare it to a light assault, who is infinitely faster and more agile. They're both 'assaults', it's just that one is heavy, and the other is light. The LA survives by moving and using cover effectively. The HA survives by tanking bullets. Now, let's say we remove the HA Overshield. The guy meant to tank bullets suddenly has a lower survival chance that the guy with the jetpack, as he just gets shot up when he tries to stand and shoot someone. But let's take this a step further, and compare it to other class abilities. The Medic has that AoE heal. This just flat out increases survivability for everyone involved, as bullet holes just fix themselves and damage is negated. The Medic should never be at the forefront, because he needs to survive so that he may heal others. The Engineer has an ammo pack, because the Engineer should never be on the front lines. Their point is to support. This keeps him alive by making sure his buddies have all the firepower they need to keep the enemy far away from the Engineer, though if the Engineer really needs to fight, they'll likely put down a turret or hop in a vehicle. The Infiltrator has the cloak, because the Infiltrator is never meant to 1v1 someone. An Infiltrator is meant to ambush their opponents and pick them off from a distance, or preform stealth assassinations up close on lone targets. If the Infiltrator is spotted, their best option isn't to fight; it's to run. Cloak really helps them run, and set traps and ambushes, which is really what the class itself is about. The Light Assault is an offensive class designed around mobility and versatility. They survive by ducking in and out of cover, taking pot-shots, hiding on roofs, and using indirect methods of dealing damage and hindering their foes. If they get caught out of position, they're probably going to die. The MAX... er, it's a freakin' suit of vehicle-class power armor. I shouldn't need to point out how well it survives against anything that isn't specifically designed to explode it. But the Heavy Assault? They have the overshield, so when stuff happens, they flip a switch and can stand their ground, as they are meant to do. They are not a primarily offensive class, but a defensive class. The LMG is not that great of a breaching weapon, even if Planetside 2 LMGs are basically just Carbines with giant magazines. I personally struggle to fight with LMGs, as I find that they just don't do enough, even if I can sink a whole magazine into somebody. The overshield is there so that you CAN empty that magazine, though. It's there so you can fight a bit longer than most other troops, because that's what the HA is meant to do. I will never say that tweaking is bad, as I feel that you can never hit perfection. But downright removal? ....I think that maybe people should stop trying to knife the HAs. It's not good for your health.
People playing heavies isn't a cause...it's a symptom. This game can throw a lot at you at any given time, being as prepared as you can be is always a good thing. Being able to kill that tank or fighter instead of getting farmed by them is great. Also, consider what you're actually doing most of the time when you're not in a vehicle. You're either defending a point, or pushing a point. THAT's why people play heavies so much, they're the best thing besides a max for storming a room in most cases. I'm not knocking any other class though. A lot of people fail to realize the full potential of say a LA or infiltrator in any given situation. So many times I've been able to help break a point free of defenders, simply by throwing one or two emp grenades. Or dropped down from an unexpected angle to take out a bunch of medics keeping their front line alive. That being said...make the HA over shields front directional. I know, there'd be all sorts of issues with this change, but if they could be hammered out, i think this change would certainly help to fix people's problems with HAs.
nope. the HA shield is fine as it is now. the problem isn't the game or the shield.. its the people. people who don't know how to deal with certain situations or people who can't play their class right. i could also say nerf infiltrator because 1h to drop someone who can't respond is op and other nonsensical stuff like that. making the shield only front directional is the same thing as making the engi only use the rep. tool or an ammo pack or medics only beeing able to heal or revive ... chose only one of those options... heck even an infiltrator killed me ( i was playing HA) in 1vs1 because he ambushed me (headshots are your friends guys). if you "destroy" the HA which class do you expect to stand in the front line?
The windup actually fits the purpose of the HA shield perfectly (at least according to how they previously have changed the HA shields function) the HA shields did actually receive a re-purpose to make them less of a reaction based thing and more of a prepared thing (this was when the HA shields were nerfed in dmg absorbtion but buffed in duration.) The main purpose of that particular update was to mitigate the HA extreme overpowered shields when the HA was flanked. and it helped, significantly. however it didn't help enough. The heavy assault class is supposed to be a charging class built to charge in a room and destroy everything inside. in other words, the heavy assault class was intended to initiate combat, not react to it. so adding a charge time, or delay, when activating the HA shields would essentially make the HA shields useless when someone gets the drop on them. however it would still allow the HA class to turn on their shields then charge a room. if you don't think a heavy assault shield is op as is here is an example of why it is: take this cqc high risk high reward infiltrator using the tsar. now the infiltrator has a delay when cloaking and decloaking. im not 100% sure what this time is, but its somewhere around half a second. so this infiltrator using a bolt action rifle is lining up a headshot, begins to decloak, and goes to take the shot, in the mean time the HA sees this and pops on his shield. the headshot lands, but no kill, because the HA shield absorbed most of the damage. now the infiltrator either dies or flees, because the recycle time on the tsar is 1.1 seconds where the TTK with most LMGs is .5 ish seconds. additional switching to a sidearm would not guarantee the kill as it take .25 seconds to draw a sidearm (excluding the QCX which takes .55 seconds) at which point the infiltrator would still have to put enough accurate rounds into the heavy to finish him off. with a charge time this entire scenario is averted. the infiltrator would have enough time to decloak and shoot before the HA shields took effect. in addition to adding a delay before shields activate, it would probably require a shield health buff to balance out. what doesn't make sense is that the HA (the most tanky infantry unit in the game) gets max nanoweave by default. in the hours ive played heavy assault (either adrenaline shield with shotgun, or mswr with NMG) ive been able to rack up massive amounts of kills (generally 3 or more kills per life) where as while playing other classes 3 kills perlife is very good (except maybe my medic while in biolabs cause underbarrel is op for point holds).
Dont nerf the infiltrator, HA can survive a headshot from any weapon if their shields are up, plus the pump action shotguns are 1 shot kills in cqc. if anything the Bolt actions should get a headshot multiplier buff so that heavies cant survive headshots from a bolt baby. plus landing headshots is not easy against anyone who isnt standing still. especially with 1 round every 1.1 seconds. on many occasions, the time to decloak while having a headshot lined up has given HAs time to throw their shields up and kill me.
Not nessesarily. If an infiltrator, a class designed to flank, isn't being sneaky and headshotting heavies when their guard is down, then they deserve to be countered by the player slayer. It's like, why have a shield in the first place if you can't counter bolters that purposely just snipe everything. This isn't cod and shouldn't be.
If you've ever played as Heavy, you'll know that the shields pop in a few bullets leaving you very vulnerable. I mostly use it against vehicle shells, clearing rooms or even intimidation. The class has tactical advantages as well. We need the Heavy as a front line class. Other classes fail in that position, with the exception of the max. Our weapons too require a steep learning curve to master but we're here to talk about HA. The shield itself pops easily, but gives us enough time to calculate the time needed to decide whether to switch between Rocket or LMG. Depending on the situation, this decision is critical. So before you call out against HA, play the Heavy for yourself, see how it outperforms and fails against different situations.
The problem is, the most recent changes to the HA shields (was about 2 years ago if im not mistaken) increased the duration of the shields but nerfed the health significantly. so being able to find a heavy with their guard down long enough to decloak and land that headshot, is incredibly difficult. The few shots that sneak past a heavy assaults shields when they activate them is just because of the delay between the server and computer, there is in fact, no delay between the activation of the shields and the damage absorbtion, where as every other class in the game has a delay between the benefits of their ability and the activation of their ability (Excluding LA for obvious reasons). When i was writing this post, i was specifically thinking of the Tsar-42 and the Ghost and SASR, which requires a 'sneaky' infiltrator to be very close to the battles, where their cloaks are minimally effective (between people using darklights almost constantly and having to move around) the long range bolt actions are fine in my opinion, except maybe the sr7 which isn't really unique being a faction specific sniper rifle (its the TR specific one with 8 shots in a magazine 600m/s velocity and in 95% of situations is not as good as the rams .50 which has 5 shots per mag but 650m/s velocity, seriously daybreak WTF are we gonna do with 8 shots in a mag, most snipers reload after every 1 or 2 kills anyway). Headshots in CQC with a fire rate of almost 1 shot a second is extremely difficult, especially since the bolt action rifles have less than stellar moving accuracy for weapons requiring headshots in cqc. I feel like instead of giving the headshot multiplier, which seems to be an unpopular opinion, an also effective alternative would be giving the HA shields an activation time, perhaps equivalent to the cloak/decloak time of an infiltrator. #1 complaint for infiltrators fighting HAs is NC jackhammer with darklight. yes its a thing, and surprisingly, not uncommon.
I play HA only (BR15 so noob ranking): in my case I use the shield only in two very specific (and opposite) situations: either in CQC before entering in a building or during a duel with a not-so-good sniper. However, I find strange consider the HA a first wave/main assault element giving a LMG (slow to move, not stellar ROF, and not very precise) as main weapon: when defensive I always position myself slightly behind/aside/above the front wave with a pattern of movement based on dash-take cover-crouch-aim-fire-dash to make best use of my LMG provide suppressive fire, support, spot enemies or engaging ground vehicles and light aircrafts depending on the scenario.
