even tho i agree with you... there are also other players out there who played tons of hours and are complaining about HAs and their shields (i met once a medic BR 86 or something like that and the 1vs1 turned out to be a tie... and i'm "only" a HA BR 40ish). imo the HA is fine and so is his shield ability ... each class has its pros and cons. learn to play your class as its ment to be and stop complaining and git gud xD ( and no i don't solo HA i also play as engi or infi alot)
Not sure which part of your response is directed at me, as some of the context doesn't make sense. Help me out.
I understand. It's like how new players might assume that BR 100 equals increased skill. However, those of us who've played for a while, know it's not true. In this game, it seems that the amount of time played doesn't correlate to increased skill, UNLESS that player has specifically made it a point to improve. I remember being TERRIBLE for the longest time (and still am), except that I realized that I was just bad. I didn't try to blame the game or opponents for me being bad. Yeah there are things that are a bit annoying, but overall, we just adapt to the changes. This has been my main character for two years (I made some alts for the anniversary pack), as of 25 May 2015, and I didn't start getting better until about 6 months ago. There just always seems to be an abundance of "This is too hard, make it easier" posts, than "I am bad, help me improve" types (I'm generalizing). Now don't get me wrong, I am not naive to when certain items are clearly "OP", but I like to look for in-game counters that are available, but maybe outside of my comfort zone.
the top, you know, before I draw a line between the part directed at you and the part speaking in general...
Ok, cool. I asked because the quotes about "go from outfit to outfit" made no sense, in context to a response to my original post. Care to elaborate on how that relates to anything I've said? Thanks.
exactly. there are many ways to play around the shield or even kill the HA before he can even activate his shield. ppl need to understand how to use their class properly. for example : a LA killed me (as HA) from above before i even knew where he was ( i'm not the best one but if you use your class as its ment to be used then you have it way easier in this game.) i don't even want to count how many times i got killed from infiltrators who sniped me so yeah all classes have their own role and are unique. there isn't really a class which is "OP" because they all serve a different role and its a teambased game afterall. if you want to kill any HA in 1vs1 then use the environment to your advantage and/or attack him from behind and aim for the head xP
I guess next you will argue how game to game is different from outfit to outfit, because it's you and yadda yadda. only a small portion of my post was directed at that, but you seem far more vested in collecting straws than actually creating a point. I wouldn't say I am done on this discussion, but I am most certainly done on this particular topic, as it is an off topic. Holding your hand while I clarify your hypocrisy is not what I came here for. You are not that important.
Lol, you clearly have a chip on your shoulder. If I spanked you in-game on one of your alts at some point, I can assure you, it hurt me more than it did you. No need to get all flustered, making incoherent responses. You are right that the "outfit to outfit" remark makes no sense, which is why you "knew" that's what I was getting around too. Not my fault you made an ambiguous post. I like having logical discussions, however, you tried to troll, and made yourself look silly in the process. Now you are trying to gracefully back yourself out of your hole. Let's keep it going. I love discussions with folk willing to write.
i play Engi almost exclusively and have no issue taking down groups of HA with just my carbine, stop being bad and get better at the game
Oh, you misunderstand, I don't play alts enough to have problems like that, and if you play an alt then I don't know about it. I don't have a problem with you leaving or any drama like that I'm not wisdomcube, but pointing out that the poster trying to take some sort of moral high ground by saying anyone making a case for balance hops games, is a person who hops outfit for the same reasons (became inconvenient) Why wouldn't I bring up something that makes for such a perfect analogy? It's OK that you aren't an intuitive enough reader to understand (although I believe your ignorance to be feigned) some people can't read at all...
HA Shield isnt that amazing anyway.....not when we have headshotside 2 and seems 8/10 people can land perfect head shots from any range..
Well first, if you are part of TIW, why haven't you stated your name, for credential verification. I don't doubt that you are (who would impersonate being a member of another outfit?), just that your Forum name isn't familiar, nor is it tied to TIW. If you are wanting to maintain anonymity, I get it, I guess. It's just an online game though, no need for reputation protection. Be proud of the statements you make online. On to the rest. There was never a statement made about wanting balance equating to game-hopping. What is stated was that those who CHOOSE to whine for game changes, WITHOUT making the effort to improve THEMSELVES, are the type that game hop. Those who have improved their personal gameplay, and still see issues, are clearly not in the category I described, and should not find issue with anything I've said. It's one of those "if the shoe fits" kind of things. There is a difference between game hopping and outfit hopping. In outfits, sometimes personalities and playstyles are not a match for every player; amongst other issues, such as low population/activity, and any other issue that may develop in an outfit/guild. I have a history of seeming to join new guilds/outfits in the middle of some drama that has people leaving in anger, or the whole thing disbanding. Heck, if I remember correctly, many (or atleast some) of TIWs or early members were once part of PHX (on Waterson, who wasn't, right?). Ultimately, moving to a different outfit DOES NOT change anything for ANYONE else that plays the game. HOWEVER, asking for changes to be made to an ENTIRE game, which effects EVERY PLAYER, not just the requester, is an entirely different story. From a perspective of having been a VERY bad player early on, to transitioning to a drastically improved state; I do feel I and others alike, are in unique positions to be able to say that sometimes the games just aren't enjoyable due to our own personal low skill level. So if someone wants certain changes to occur, that can clearly be remedied through personal improvement, then yes, I will raise a flag on that. Many games suffer from incoming crowds that instantly want the game to be made easier to accommodate the players' lack of desire to personally improve and invest time. I don't blame the players at all, because it is their prerogative to ask. However, that doesn't mean everything should be done to dumb the games down. When it comes to game changes that aren't effected by personal performance, such as the Meta-Game piece, then sure, suggest away. However, changes to make 1v1s easier, without the requester putting adequate effort into improving their Aim and Game Knowledge, is just insulting to everyone who started off bad, and improved themselves to the point of progress. However, if the requester did improve themselves, and still finds issues, that is a case I won't argue with. As far as being an intuitive reader; in a discussion, it is not the reader's job to interpret the text of the writer. The writer should have written clearly and concisely enough so that ANY reader could understand the points made. Our misunderstandings as readers, is the fault of the writer (to an extent). That's why I ask the questions, so I don't waste time writing a response to an ambiguous statement that was actually agreeing with me, rather than disagreeing. Or worse, a statement that wasn't directed towards me at all, thus sparking a pointless discussion due to a misunderstanding.
The heavy shield is a crutch for bad players on what is already the easiest to use class, and the class that requires the least foresight. Remove the shield, add 100 or 200 health to the default shield and reduce their movement speed by between 5 and 10% Make the heavy actually pay for the privilege of being hard as **** to kill. They're already the most versatile by far and they need a reason to not be played constantly.
I would rather maintain the anonymity for the most part. I don't like to create drama for a separate entity, as would happen with how often I go against the grain of the common player. I post videos on these forums though, so it shouldn't be hard to figure out if one wants to invest the time into it. I subscribe to the idea that every player should strive to improve themselves, including people who roll heavy. Currently it is a bypass to that. You have to consider the fact that not every player is you or me, the average player will, on average, encounter an average player, and will, from time to time due to circumstance or average positioning skill, get the jump on them, but wont, from time to time due to circumstance or average gunplay skill, land every shot fired. This method of thinking works at the high level, because gunplay skill doesn't negate getting killed almost as fast as the server tells you that you've been shot at, so battles are decided almost entirely by initiative and positioning thus making class choice irrelevant, but for the average player who might take off an enemy's shield, they are still disadvantaged by 100 hp even before nanoweave (which now stacks with overshield as a buff that HA didn't need) Imagine how much of a turn off it would be for most players if all other classes were locked until they were twice as good as most everyone else. the mountain of improvement is too high for most players to climb, so most players either roll heavy like you, or they leave the game. Not many players are like me and are ok with beating their face into a brick wall until it comes down. Should players have to get better? yes! should players have to get twice as good as 85% of their enemies (NMG or adrenaline/Nano heavies) just to break even? no! The change I suggested, an overall buff, will lower a NMG/Nano heavy from 2000 hp to about 1666. Training wheels, not piggy back rides from your dad until you buy a car... Most heavy players say 1666 hp still isn't enough and that other players should "git gud" because they don't strive for improvement. play stupid games, win stupid prizes, it is entirely your job to understand things before you respond to them. is it ok to not understand something and ask for clarification? yes. Is it ok to take a feigned lack of understanding and spread it out over 3 replies? no.
Heavy is not a bypass to improving, because as you said, bad gunplay and positioning negate the benefits of HA perks. That would be like saying, "being able to go invisible (stealth), while possessing a high damage, long range rifle, is a crutch for players". Yeah, average players will be able to get kills, BUT they're skill level will still limit their efficiency. When I play Infi, I see so many new Snipers not even using their cloak abilities to reduce their visibility time and detection, making them easy pickings for experienced counter-snipers. Until that player learns the ins and outs of how to play their chosen classes, they will continue to hit a brick wall. The concepts of improving Aim and Accuracy can be learned and applied across all classes, and that is the point I am making. Aim improvement through settings adjustments and practice, will benefit across ALL classes, not just HA. I was first put onto the forum post that started my progress when I first joined VCO. I followed the settings adjustments, mouse adjustments, and everything else in the guide, by the T. Then, over the course of 2-3 months, I saw myself gradually getting better and better, to here I am 6 months later, and am still improving in different areas. I started my improvement on a HA, because I had become burnt out playing Medic, as that was all I did previously. I was bad at all classes equally, especially HA. Look at my Gauss SAW stats. I haven't touched that thing since the improvement process started a while back. I was bad all around. However, once my aim improvement process started, my gunplay across EVERY class I played, increased drastically. I auraxiumed the SMG and Carbine Directive weapons on LA and Infi, and still did significantly better than I did when I first started on either class. I enjoy LA more than anything, but because of my Tiny Heart Syndrome (not a real thing), I can't handle the constant excitement of playing LA. All of that is to say, that I was significantly worse than before, than I am now. I put the effort in to improve, and it improved my gunplay across every class I play; I didn't ask for the game to be made easier for me. However, I also like to pay it forward, by taking willing players into VR training (or via squad chat) and going over the improvement process steps, so they too can benefit from the same guidance I received. Prior to my joining VCO and reading that guide, NOBODY EVER offered any advice or guidance as to how to improve myself; and I have asked on numerous occasions when I was even more of a nobody in my early days. However, the "elites" on Waterson just kept the secrets for themselves, and set entry criteria at a level where they EXPECT you to already perform at a certain level just to hang out with them. There was no "Hey, if you can do XYZ, we will train you, and show you how to improve". Most of them didn't want to be bothered with taking the time to help; they just expected everyone to "Get Gud" That is more of the problem that I see, there are too few of us willing to actually take the time to help new players improve, versus keeping them in the dark so that we may farm them later, or that we have less competition for notoriety. You can make all of the subtle insults you want. However, I know where I came from, and did not forget the struggle. If I can spend 6-months making easy, but not readily identifiable, adjustments that improve my gameplay, so can someone else, if given the proper guidance. Unfortunately, as previously stated, there is a lack (some do exist) of experienced players willing to actually help others improve, rather than give them the simple "get gud" treatment. You will find many posts where I offer to meet people in VR Training to go over stuff, and have spent many hours doing so. I happen to enjoy training/teaching, so it's not an inconvenience to me. Lastly, I don't really care about changing the HA. I can play other classes, and be efficient anyway. Hell, they could completely remove HA, and I would care less. My only gripe, is when players in any game, ask for the game to be made easier, WITHOUT inputting ANY effort to improve or ask for help from others, to make see if they can adapt to the game in its current state. Yes, there will be things that are clearly broken, to the new and experienced players. However, some things are just not that blatant or necessary. When most players are killed by something, they will always ask for it to be nerfed, rather than finding different ways to tackle the obstacle with the current tools they have available. That is a fact of gaming.
What I am saying is that this is not the case for the average player. If a top player catches someone unawares, it doesn't matter who that player is, they will die, but the average player wont kill them faster than they can react. The average player might take their shields off, and even before NWA is facing an 1100 HP opponent (500hp+600overshield) Average vs average has the same odds of positioning for a proper flank as a pair of high skill players, but a significantly lower chance of executing it with minimal flaws, so heavy is "fair" at the high levels (go head to head to lose, flank to win) while being lopsided at the average level (go head to head to lose, flank to still be at a disadvantage)
As an LA my toughest enemies are Panic Button HA's, I can out aim and beat my fair share of them simply with better reaction time and accuracy towards the head. That said if I come up against a good HA it was over before i even decided to fire back. Its a hard thing to balance a class that's designed to be the main role for combat. The only possible way to adjust it is not allowing them to Tap their panic button mid fight while they are taking dmg. same as the delay before your shield start regenerating, that could be a delay before they can activate. Some thing not to long that give them a downtime but not to short so if they are spamming the button during a fire fight the time between bullet hits isn't long enough for it to activate. Again all that said, its to late to change something like that for HA, an easy 60% of the pop is HA and are so used to the advantage of extra health and rely on the Panic Button that it cause A LOT of fuss. My only advice is play as LA or Engy and use carbines, it forces you to get better and any for the head more to survive, switch to HA after that and you feel like a god lol.
That's exactly the problem though, HA far outnumbers every other class precisely because it's easy-mode for everything that isn't very niche(such as healing or repairing) It's far too simple for a terrible player to roll heavy, pop the Easy Button and walk all over somebody. Sure a skilled player can still beat them but the class is far too much of a crutch. The shield needs to go or be completely redesigned.
