Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by Pooliscool, Mar 24, 2015.
5 seconds sounds about right.
Id be interested in seeing this game for 1 month with the HA shield and NWA gone....see how it changes the game.
Simply change HA to be 750/500, a 250 point health bonus over other classes, that is like 2 shots, and no NWA for the game ot calculate....see if hit detect doesnt improve...and then see if HA are still so OP.
It might be a poor coding issue. My wild guess is that it's coded like "uses medkit = full hp" while it should be "uses medkit = +500 hp" (even if you had 300 hp at the moment of medkit use, you wouldn't get 800, ofc, because you can't exceed your max just as medic's healing gun can't).
It would stop server lag abuse without a need for cooldown, because it wouldn't tell the server "Player X just used a medkit, he HAS TO BE at full health!", instead it would tell it "Give player X 500 hp!" so the player can still be out-damaged and killed.
If I'm wrong, however, then a cooldown would be perfectly fine.
There is no problem with the HA. Literally EVERYONE from EVERY faction can play it at ANY moment. Why should it be nerfed? Because you want to play only your favorite class in a game that offers you the capacity to change it at any moment? I think you got the game wrong buddy. HA are there to be used by any people, when they are needed. If you're constantly losing against an HA, stop banging your head against the wall like a ******, and pull your own. If you still lose, guess what? You suck, he doesn't.
Stop crying nerd this discussion has been going on for over a year and you baddies still have not improved.
I started this game two years ago on a different character with a .7 kd, below 20% hsr and acc and a 1.5 ivi kdr iirc. I used to whine a lot about cloaking sneaky infs, orion heavies etc. Etc. But I pushed through the salt and started aiming for the head, and brought my NC to a 2 kdr without revives. Then i started vanu and those are my stats vvvv
Meh people that QQ here dont want to get better themselves they want others to get worse.
One thing people don't consider is when the HA gets nerfed and people switch to medics do you really think it's going to be better for the game? you think killing one HA is hard? ever seen a freaking medic squad? you want everyone running around in medics.. great.. so now when you kill one guy the 20 other medics will revive him, oh you killed 10 medics in a single blow? too bad you forgot about the other 5.. ye the game will be so much fun. It's already incredibly frustrating when you kill an entire squad, you're out of health and ammo and all that's left is a ******* medic running around took a single shot at you, at least the HA can't revive everything the medic just reverts everything you just did. And don't get me started when fights escalate imagine there's now as many medics as HAs, now reduce the HA players.. WOW SO MUCH FUN /s because we really need more attrition/TDM in this game
but I agree with some things the medkit tanking is utterly stupid, I saw a player with 15% hp left as soon as im shooting him with my anchor at 10m he poping a medkit it's like hitting a brickwall, NO DMG DONE ABSOLUTELY NONE, it's ******* pathetic.
"Their armor and shields can take more punishment than most other soldiers can, allowing them to dominate in direct close-quarters conflict where their heavy weapons are most effective."
This is a direct quote from the wiki. It is to prove that the HA's difficulty to kill if intended. If you want to kill HA better, as much as I hate to say it, be a better player or use the old "gang-up and beat the living poop out of them" tactic. Also the shield can be defined as 1/3 of a HA's health. So if you want to take that away or Nerf it, do the same to 1/3 of other class's health.
Playing both heavy and engy as my favorite class I can tell you both from the POV of a heavy and the POV of a heavy hunter(somewhat) that the HA shield is perfect the way it is. To kill a heavy the best way is to out maneuver, out smart, or out range them(or out damage them if you're using SMG or other close range weapons) by using weapons like they're designed to do. The heavy is literally designed to be the damage sponge of the game, so you can't fight them directly-hence the reason why most new players loose against HA in a 1v1 fight. A heavy's only fear is to be like a vanguard in a fight against a good c4 fairy, being out maneuvered. When the shield is popped the heavy becomes slower, which is made worse if they ADS. So the total movement speed of a average HA in combat is around .5 or less. This added to the fact that most weapon can out gun a LMG(HA's common weapon) when you play them right and the fact that HA is required to go against vehicles that out gun and out health(lightning have about 2x the health of a HA) make the HA shield a necessity instead of a perk.
Also since it's also about stuff being bad, can someone Nerf the power of spawn room shield? I mean, who would think of such monstrosity? A device that prevent spawn killing and farming weaker players? Simply horrible, absolutely ridiculous. It ought to be taken out of the game! (PS: this paragraph is a joke. Don't take it seriously. I am 99.9% against spawn killing. I'm .1% for it because...why not? )
If you want to beat HA play HA. Every other class is support.
Why are you trying to radically change the game now? It wouldn't even be the same class then.
I always like when you are in a Biolab and some ***** /y "Wow look at all the scrub HA players". Um yeah - close quarter combat would dictate a lot more use of HA. Do you expect to find Engineers outfitted for an MBT in the Biolab fights?
The deadliest class right now are Infiltrators. When a sniper is setup in a good spot hitting ANYONE in the head at 12x+ range with one shot kill ability is the deadliest power. Not only is the one shot kill from range great it can take advantage of other players PC limitations.
And you know what -- just aim for the head. Shields don't work for the head. Just like maxs -- use explosives -- they get extra shredded from them.
I see this myth still persists. The lowest damage output from a small mag that I can think of is the auto scout rifle 20x143 =2,860 or the more common NS PDW - 30x125 = 3,750. HA is tough, but not that tough.
If you have time to empty a whole mag into someone then you would do well to brush up on accuracy to get the best out of the opportunity.
There's one other thing that can overcome them. Being a half way decent player. I have no trouble killing heavy assault. Learn to headshot and/or shotgun. For the record I play engineer. The only time I pull out heavy assault is if there's an ESF annoying me.
You have it backwards. Good players won't be affected by the change because we didn't have any trouble killing heavy assaults in the first place.
Interesting threat but it is useless I would say. Shield, rocket launcher that is what makes heavy assault become heavy assault... All class have them specific abilities and heavy assault against other classes is fairly balanced. Since light assaults can attack you from above(yeah I'm talking about jump jets), engineers can use turrets and easy kill heavy. Medics can revive team players, heal himself to survive longer. Infiltrators can sneak from behind or hunt you from distance and etc. Everything is fine now you just use your class in wrong way when you face HA.
So many whiners about HA overshield.
Simple way to make HA weak whilst still being true to their strategic power, take away health kits. Or lower the max number to 2 instead of 4. This way in an organized fight you can still get a medic to top you up, making you that spearhead on the frontline, but reducing your solo capabilities so you cant have a huge effective hp advantage for 5-6 fights, only 3-4.
Shields make HA HA. If you cant kill them from behind >25m without them turning around and killing you first, you really just need to get good. Its not hard to kill someone.
I know for a fact, that a good shot can surprise you form behind and kill you by the time you are facing him. I having an effective hp of 1966 (maths rule), and I barely get time to shoot at good shots.
LMGs are great guns, but not the best. If i could use an Assault Rifle on my HA, I would be God.
Also, a tip, whiners often need them, if you come up behind someone, HA or otherwise, they won't know you're there if you weren't close enough to be heard, so instead of instantly going all guns blazing, take the time to settle, and line him up for at least high accuracy, and if you can headshots. If you just shoot wildly, he will turn around, and seeing as half your shots are missing, pew pew you to death. A great saying, "if you take the time it takes, it takes less time" in other words, if you do it right the first time, it will be quicker.
The issue with the HA is that it is simply too versatile and can handle all situations, there's no trade-off in abilities like you get with other classes. HA can shred infantry, has a larger effective hit-point pool on account of the shield, possesses an effective self-heal in the medkit and is effective in anti-vehicle with the selection of launchers. It's a great class to play and I have to admit I've been playing it a lot recently (needed the directive) and there have been many moments where I've sat here and thought "that's OP as f**".
So the question is what can we do to fix this? There's a few paths but the overall goal should be to make the HA less of a 'do any job all the time' and force the player to make a concious trade-off decision at the load-out screen. I suppose my main thoughts are best described by the below options:
Option 1 - Directional Shield
One of the main issues with the HA for me is the all-encompassing shield. As eluded to above, there's been many an occasion where some plucky LA has worked their way around behind and got the drop on me. The LA engages from behind and puts a round in to me, I instinctively shield up, spin and open up. Dead LA. Medkit up, reload and plod on to the next target. That shouldn't happen, if I'm attacked from behind I deserve to be dead, that LA earned that kill and a poor game mechanic denied that.
The HA is an assaulter, the class role is to be the front line, to take damage and push a lane. The shield should be directional and frontal only. HA's retain their bad-*** damage and overall abilities but are vulnerable to flanking attacks. This also feeds into the combined arms theme as no one class should truly own on the field.
Option 2 - The ultimate trade-off
Force a plain choice upon the HA. The ability to attack infantry with an increase hit-point pool (overshield) vs the ability to attack vehicles from range without. Basically make the shield and launcher mutually exclusive.
With the overshield equipped the HA cannot equip a launcher and is therefore focused down on infantry play. Limited anti-vehicle capability can be offered by C4 at a trade-off against medkits (but why need medkits if you've got a medic in squad).
With launcher equipped the HA maintains his versatility to engage any target but within the sphere of infantry-only the HA is on an equal footing with other non-HA classes (no I win button). The heavy would still be a powerful class with a lot of damage output and by no means a 'squishy' but the essential trade-off is there.
We do need more Attrition in this game, but just not in that fashion...resources and nanites to make capping a base and KDR Matter a little more.
There are only certain HA's that I have a hard time killing, regardless of the class I am playing. In general, those players are good, regardless of the class they are playing. Their common traits, are High Accuracy and Headshots. When it comes to 1v1 situations with the average players, Accuracy and Headshots make MORE of the difference towards the winner, than anything else. MOST players aren't keen to Medkit Tanking, nor do they yet have the reflexes to do a quick 180, acquire the most threatening target, and kill them.
As someone said earlier, you can pull certain classes to fit certain scenarios. If you are getting repeatedly killed from a rooftop by LAs, you should PROBABLY pull a LA yourself, seeing as it is the only one that can get up there most efficiently. However, most players in that scenario, would keep pulling their favorite class, keep getting killed by the LAs on the roof, then complain about it. Same with snipers. I can't count the number of times I've spawned on a sundee, seen someone get sniped from afar, I switch to a sniper myself, to kill the enemy sniper, then switch back to my previous class. Average players lack versatility, and only want the game to cater to the specific class or role they WANT to play, and they usually don't play their favorite classes/roles right anyway.
So, just like in EVERY other shooter game we've all ever played, players will attempt to get the game to cater to their lack of desire to improve, rather than try to improve themselves. Those types of players will forever go from game to game, being blind to the fact that they are the problem; thus never seeking to improve themselves, and degrading the quality of games they come into. Meanwhile, they will only stick around long enough to change a game to THEIR liking, then promptly move on to the next game.
It's not a Planetside 2 thing, it's a gaming community issue.
except that I have been playing since release, and have no intentions of moving to a different game.
as a matter of fact, the only difference between our characters, is that I stuck it out with TIW, I didn't "go from outfit to outfit" out of a lack of satisfaction, like you so hypocritically say about people pushing for a balanced combat system in a combat game. poundsignshotsfired poundsigntoocoolforhashtag
To have heavy balanced, just reduce NMG/Adrenaline to 300 shield with an 18 second recharge at max rank for NMG and no recharge but 50% regen per kill on adrenaline, add an indirect explosive modifier of something strong like 80% so they can clear mines and do their job of breaching rooms and such, 300 shield is still more than the tear inducing old nanoweave, and stacking with new nanoweave would make HA:
It is true though, that most players speak out of self interest. Most players roll heavy, and most players are only average, so most players would fall if their crutch got traded in for a cane, even if it would allow use more often than the once per minute get out of jail free card, and provide more effective HP over time, and provide extra resistance to mines and splash damage, and actually be more effective overall. That just isn't crutchey enough for the average player, and since majority rules, you can expect no changes to occur.
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