[Suggestion] TV Controlled Rockets Should Not be NC Exclusive

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by PhantomShadows, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. PhantomShadows

    I understand that the factions are supposed to be different and all have their own style, but the NC15 Phoenix being the only rocket launcher of its kind, and being faction specific is honestly ridiculous. The VS and TR equivalent of this rocket launcher are not nearly as insane, you still have to be able to see the vehicle while shooting the rockets out to be able to hit them.

    Yes the Phoenix doesn't do an insane amount of damage per rocket (it still does enough to destroy things in a few shots though), but when people shoot them constantly from a distance that the enemy can't fight back in it will break anything pretty easily. You can be far behind cover and still hit people with the rocket because you control the rocket itself. I know this because there was this one person (probably being supplied by an engineer) that was constantly harrassing an ANT base (that by the way had skywall shields everywhere) and no one could reach the person to stop them since they were in their own territory with allies nearby shooting at anyone that tried to kill them.

    If this kind of rocket is to exist it should not be exclusive to the NC. I don't understand why the rocket launcher NC got wasn't made to do something perhaps like the TR's T2 Striker, except instead of automatically seeking aircraft near where you shoot seeking ground vehicles instead. The Lancer may have no projectile drop, but you still have to fire it like any other weapon and shoot it at the target you see in your crosshairs.

    If NSO wasn't members exclusive I would say they should have waited until they made them and gave them this kind of rocket launcher instead, at least then any faction that the NSO is placed in will get the benefit of this launcher. I still say NSO being members only should only be for early access, I honestly don't see them as worth being a member for, so I don't know why they decided to do make them members exclusive. If they ever do become worth it though, I think that would be unfair too, that people that paid for membership would be the only ones get access to better items.
  2. Liewec123

    all 3 of the empire specific launchers are the only one of their kind.
    there is no other RL with seeking missiles like Striker.
    there is no other RL with borderline "hitscan" from 100m like Lancer
    • Up x 2
  3. JobiWan

    I bet loads of NC mains would prefer the Striker over the Phoenix.

    Factions are meant to be different, you even say this, but still want them to have the same toys?
    • Up x 3
  4. Scrundle

    The Phoenix, when massed and in the correct situation, is a monster. Go ahead and list the things in-game which AREN'T monsters when massed and in the correct situation.
    When not massed and when outside of that correct situation, it is as effective as not firing a rocket at all, sometimes WORSE than not firing since it renders the user defenceless.

    Keep in mind that it has the lowest Alpha and DPM of all launchers, combined with the lowest range, rockets that can be shot down, its user being left defenceless and network smoothing making the ones in the air coming towards you look a lot more agile than they really are. Oh and it doesn't begin reloading until the missile is detonated/abandoned so it is also the only launcher that gets a WORSE RoF and DPM the further away your target is!
    What does that list of restrictions mean? It means nobody uses the Phoenix unless they're in the very specific situation where the Phoenix shines (When the TR or VS put an AMS too close to a spawn room basically), which means TR and VS players only notice the Phoenix being used when their AMSes are being destroyed by twenty of them from behind a shield, which very rightfully seems unfair to those TR and VS players.
    You'll meet a striker or a lancer anywhere in a multitude of situations, when's the last time you actually saw a person holding a Phoenix launcher? You don't see them, they're in the spawn room. If they leave the spawn room I guarantee they're not bringing a damn Phoenix with them.

    It's a weapon that can't be balanced; by its very nature it is always going to be either overpowered or underpowered, there IS no sweet spot for a remotely controlled high explosive that can be fired from safety.
    Take the damn thing out and give us the Scorpion back instead, it has way more faction flavour than a guided rocket (It's a rocket that splits into smaller rockets, almost like a shotgun!) and takes actual skill to make good use of it, resulting in an interesting and rewarding weapon that doesn't step on the toes of anything already in game. Why don't we already have it?
    • Up x 3
  5. AbsinthSvK

    these days players needs NC guns? Max shotguns last time and NC15 Phoenix now? Lol its trash gun where you stay whole time for easy kill and probably never get kill only assistances. Sure take it, its trash and give as something useful. What would be next? NC vehicles are too edgy?
  6. IVANPIDORVAN

    Phoenix launcher one of the dumbest game designs in entire game. This thing is cancer, but not because it's OP. Oh no no no. It's horrbile weapon, worst launcher across all three nations.

    It is so bad because it encourage very, very, VERY passive and autistic playstyle. Typical phoenix user is a guy, usually standing inside spawn room or beside far cloaked sunderer. He launch rockets one after another, sometimes he even kill somebody, usually just infils with 900hp, but their favorite exercise is finding and destroying deployed sunderes aka destroying spawns which equal to ruining fight/fun for every one else in his current location.

    But it's not efficient way of doing that at all, c4 fairy or even lighting a lot more efficient, one engineer is enough to keep sunderer at full health. Worst part of this is what you have to SACRIFICE your life(not ingame life, your real playtime) to repair this sunderer. So we have situation when one person fetters another person, they both do nothing usefull, one deal damage, other repair it and he have only 2 options: keep repairing or giveup. Depending on mental disorders of these 2 persons sometimes this bullshjt can last for hours and it's rediculous.

    And you telling what that thing shouldn't be NC exclusive am i get this right? I hope in real life you lost one of your hands, otherwise there is no excuse for loving phoenix.
    • Up x 1
  7. PhantomShadows

    That's not the point though, the point is that it completely changes how you play the game and keeping this huge of a difference in weapons faction specific is silly. Every other weapon that's faction specific still generally acts like the other factions equivalent weapon with one usually small change, this one however does not and is a pretty big advantage over the other factions. Having a weapon where you don't even have to see your target in your sight when you fire to kill them is quite a big game changer. The MAX shotguns as someone else mentioned are still what you should expect fighting an AI MAX as infantry, death.

    Nothing else specific to factions changes anything nearly as much. Infinite ammo on directive weapons for VS, you could still shoot them to death like any other enemy. NC vehicle and MAX shields, shoot more, or get behind the shield and they still die. Weapons can and have be balanced, many of them in this game have been balanced to a stupid degree where the faction's benefit is barely even noticeable.

    If you can list any other difference between factions comparable to a weapon you can use 300m away from the combat while also behind cover please do, but I don't think you'll be able to.

    There's no such thing as an incorrect situation for this rocket, if there's something that can die and within it's range you can kill it, and that's the problem, every other weapon has a situation it can't work in, but you'd have to specifically try to get yourself killed to have a bad situation for using this launcher.

    To be clear I don't mean everything has to function exactly the same for every faction but the furthest from rocket launchers any other rocket launcher act is the Lancer acting more like a sniper rifle. For the T2 Striker, it should be about the same reaction as any other rocket launcher, you see someone shooting a rocket straight at you, you fly away. This one however feels more like it would be a deployable an Ant construction can spawn.
  8. Johannes Kaiser

    Phoenix indeed is an oddball. I'll list what springs to mind, but a lot of this has been said here already.
    - Yes, you can fire from relative safety. But change that to negative safety of you are out of the spawn and enemy snipers are around.
    - Yes, it's easy to hit stationary targets with it. Moving targets are also a bit easier than with dumbfire launchers if the movements are predictable. But dodging last second can throw the guided rocket off completely (Magrider is very good at this because of the strafing ability, but with enough driver skill all vehicles can do that).
    - But the offset is the extremely low fire rate due to the reload beginnign after the rocket has expired in one or the other way. This affords aware drivers enough time to get moving.
    - Projectiles can be shot, high RoF weapons are very useful here. So, you know, the staple guns of the two factions who don't have the Phoenix.
    - Low damage. Add to that the low RoF, and the DPS are abysmal.

    So yes, it can be dangerous, but the best use of this is by well coordinated squads. And that's about it. And well coordinated squads can make a lot of things quite dangerous.
  9. Liewec123

    I'd argue that striker has far more impact on the battlefield than Phoenix,
    a single heavy with a striker in their pocket can keep air at bay,
    one clip drops an ESF below half health and makes them retreat,
    and if they don't retreat they're dead to the second clip.

    it is also the only AA that strikes out of the blue, an ESF could be getting greedy and sticking around at half health
    and a HA with a striker can easily finish them off because there is no warning,
    Lock-On launchers and flak are nowhere near as effective at actually getting a kill.

    a single striker has far more impact on the battlefield than a single phoenix,
    one engie can out-repair the damage of TWO phoenix users,
    while one striker changes the airgame of a base completely.
  10. BrbImAFK

    Just pointing out that the Lancer is not even vaguely "hitscan". While it's muzzle velocity *is* faster than other launchers, it's also on about the same level as CQC carbines.... like *half* the speed of a bolt-sniper. And even with bolt-snipers and such you need to lead your targets. And since they added damage falloff to the Lancer, you can't even utilise it's range (supposedly it's "advantage" over other launchers) properly!
    • Up x 1
  11. Marik

    But sometimes it is a necessary evil to defend a base.
    Better to kill a battle than to allow a base to fall into enemy hands.

    -------------------------

    Es ist aber manchmal ein Notweniges Übel um eine Basis zu verteidigen.
    Lieber einen Kampf getötet, als zuzulassen das die Basis in Feindeshand fällt.
    • Up x 1
  12. Johannes Kaiser

    I completely agree with that, but everyone has their favourite way of playing. And some like prolonged fights and high killcount more than strategic objectives. Both are valid playstyles.
  13. PlanetBound

    Join NC and use the Phoenix. We need more people like you.
  14. Pelojian

    Phoenix on it's own is a joke weapon good for only killing stationary vehicles or pestering tanks to fall back outside of range rather then let chip damage whittle them down. it's fine as an nc only weapon.

    also unless used by 2-3 people it's ineffective against mobile or manned vehicles.

    it's always nice to troll a Phoenix user trying to destroy my sunderer, they spend like 3 minutes trying crazy trajectories not to get their rocket shot down by my kobalt and i just use fire suppression or rep tool between firing to recover health from the occasional hit, then they give up for 10mins then try again.
  15. Liewec123

    but it still hits ESFs, Libs and Harassers pretty hard, and is the only dumbfire launcher that is super easy to hit these targets with.
    (not counting striker's homing)
    plus you can snipe snipers with this thing, which is always fun :D
  16. pnkdth


    It is useful for libs and such but sniping? It has a 1x scope and absolutely pitiful DPS. If you're suggesting lvl3 charge then you're facing a sniper which has remained uncloaked for long enough for your to spot this player, let you charge up, walk up at a snail's pace and then let you do this three+ more times without a return fire. If we're taking lvl1-2s then this process becomes quite silly with multiple reloads. Oh, and you'll be doing this with a low velocity (450m/s is excruciating for long range) weapon meaning that in addition to all the stars in the universe aligning in your favour you have to hope your target's keyboard breaks and stops moving entirely.

    I don't want to take away from your fun (you do you) but, yeah, that sounds both terribly impractical and frustrating. I mean, you might as well whip out your breamer with a 2x reflex sight at this point and probably do better. Even better still, use a Battle Rifle since if you can snipe people with the Lancer you should be an unstoppable beast with any of the semi autos available for the HA.

    To the OP, I'd suggest creating characters for each empire. None of the ESRL are really game-breaking or that interesting. The Striker is probably the practical as it is free AA which once you get into how the work means you can deal with ESFs and the like who try to use cover. The different ESRL add a bit of flavour and I wish we'd see more of it... Plus it is nice to see NC having an ESRL which isn't a TV-guided shotgun (no, DBG, this is not a suggestion!).
  17. TRspy007



    The phoenix fires projectiles so slow you can actually shoot them down (yes). Its annoying when people stay in the spawn watching tv, but its not like people actually use it in mass, or in every situation. The default or the decimator will always be better than the phoenix.

    Besides, if you're past 400-500 meters the launcher can't get you. And as I said, you can shoot down the rockets anyways.
  18. Liewec123

    just twice.
    you charge it up and hit them, (anywhere on them) and then they usually return fire while you're charging the next shot,
    then just shoot them again (anywhere) and they die :)

    you're right about Libs, it does surprisingly good damage to them, and you really shouldn't ever miss :D
  19. Towie

    This is true - they've probably all been a bit OP at some point in time but the nerfs just kept coming and now they are rarely used. Lancer in particular is so bad that I reckon people have it from historical loadouts and accidentally pull it occasionally !

    The one thing that the Phoenix has on its side is fun and I guess this is what the OP is complaining about. We all want more fun ;)

    Only the NS Launchers (Decimator in particular) are genuinely popular.

    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...50561&startDate=2020-01-17&endDate=2020-02-17

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