TTK is too damn short for an MMO game

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Rooster128, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. Rooster128

    This TTK... is too... damn... short! And there are mechanics in this game that do not belong in an MMO. Let me explain.

    Let's say your ping is 80- server latency 160. So basically it takes .2 seconds round trip to sent your output and get server input. You're 0.2 seconds behind what is actually going on. Human reaction time is roughly 0.25 seconds. So you're watching a corner or a doorway... and someone walks in. From that time, it's roughly half a second before you can actually respond to that person. Within that timeframe said person may've taken a few shots at you, and now you have FLINCH acerbating this. You're dead without a chance at a retort. That's even with "decent" net speeds (I've seen people rubberband around all over and Planetside considers this a "good" connection? What is this even...

    People talk about gun X having Y RPM and Z damage and compare all of these stats to each other. And it's virtually meaningless, because everything is absurdly deadly. It basically comes down to- who has the better network connection (typical internet game) or who has the drop on the someone.

    Small TTK is something I'd expect in a 10v10 FPS game. Not an MMO. Hell even Halo has a higher TTK than Planetside- and it's not an MMO. Don't get me started on the flinch mechanic- it may be "realistic" but IMO it has no place in an MMO.

    If you're one of those who complain TTK is too long- yea, possibly based on the weapon. Balance is a confounding factor here for sure. But overall low TTK is an issue, and its possible you're not using said weapon in the most effective way. Still, it doesn't change the fact that fights are incredibly unfair.

    In short- raise TTK, give people with various connections a fighting chance. I'd honestly do an across the board adjustment to weapon/vehicle stats to double that TTK time. Balance from there.

    Also, remove flinch. Again, it has no place in an MMO game. People naturally flinch from being surprised anyway- no need to include an "artificial" one.

    PS: Love this game, just rough around the edges. I post because I care. <3
    • Up x 3
  2. UberNoob1337101

    TTK in PS2 is so strange, it's always either too short or too long, players either dance around with how many rounds they can eat or they get dropped near-instantly. I agree with slight equalization, but not with increasing/decreasing it too much. If you increase TTK too much with current movement you'd have combat dominated by ADAD, medkits, bunnyhops and OHKs more so than now.

    AFAIK, Battlefield has some sort of lag compensation for smoother gameplay, PS2 servers could use an upgrade and connection/packet loss from their end could be improved but beyond that I don't know what could be done with improving gameplay with high ping.

    Agree with reducing flinch/screen shake. A little bit is okay to sell the chaos on the field or simulate suppression fire, but hypothermic shaking from a random explosion 20m away or a few whizzing bullets is ridiculous.

    I really hate saying this... but this is a hard case of git gud. If an enemy reacted way before you or predicted where you'd be and you don't respond in time, either pull back to a safer location, turn the tables or die. FPS games are still about split second decisions and reflexes as well as good planning and tactics, bad internet notwithstanding. I don't know how fast players react in this game, but I've had no problems bailing out of a bad situation when the enemy has an upper hand if I'm not in the open.

    I support equalizing the playing field a bit (10-16% TTK increase maximum) and tuning some aspects of PS2, maybe even a slight headshot damage reduction, but doubling TTK is extreme in my opinion. Bullet sponges that dance mid-air or are completely unaffected by any damage I deal is worse than anything we have now IMO. Maybe it could be balanced if the entire game was built around from the ground up for this, but even so combat would feel bulletspongy and bad, and how exactly would snipers/rockets/shotguns/"insert most weapons here" be balanced is a good question.
    • Up x 2
  3. Bonemiser

    While I agree 100%, the game was intentionally designed around low TTKs and it's likely too late to undo it, let alone convince Daybreak that it's a good idea. My personal take is, don't design around 0.5s TTKs (let alone OHKs) in a game that has on average 0.3s clientside delay. Pretty much every fight where I jump over the head of my enemies with Drifters involves me seeing them aiming at my phantom image. This is without mentioning this week's spicy surprise of ducking behind cover and being killed by Mattocks a half second later. It's plain goofy.
    • Up x 1
  4. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Halo has a longer TTK than most games, using it as your benchmark is...misleading. The closest mainstream comparison would be Battlefield, where the scale is only eclipsed by the largest fights in Planetside, the zones of actual combat are generally larger, the weapons/vehicles/etc are deadlier and with just as many issues with server ping and player connections.

    Yeah, that's not how that works. That's like going into your house, breaking all the windows and setting it on fire then trying to adjust the climate control.

    Saying "Feature 'X' doesn't belong in an MMO" as a rationale for changing things doesn't exactly hold water when your points of comparison are the likes of WoW or EVE Online. That's as apples and oranges of an argument as you can get.

    Honestly to me it sounds as though your problem has more to do with what lies between the chair and the monitor than what lies between your PC and the server.
  5. Rooster128

    I actually mentioned Halo- the first Halo- because it's actually one of those games known for low TTK. A 3 headshot kill with the pistol in Halo is very comparable to what we are dealing with in Planetside with a majority of weapons.

    Not sure where you were going with this but ok. I can admit battlefield is closer to Planetside's play than Halo, but this is like arguing semantics where the root issue at play is the same. We're talking about TTK in 3 games known for low TTK.

    You disagreeing with my logic does not do anything to detract from my reality that this scenario happens to me quite often. Someone rounds a corner- previously not seen on my radar, no prior knowledge of this guy existing- and before I can even react I'm dead. There is nothing between me and my monitor that could've done anything about that. And it's cheap. It's the nature of online games but in this case I can see something that could be done about it.
  6. Scurge

    In a fair fight, meaning no hacks/exploit's/script's or macro's, It's a headshot game. The head is unprotected and has a huge damage multiplier. This includes MAX's also but it has armor protection still.

    I'm seeing a stage for example a sniper VS any other trooper excluding a max at under 20M. Trooper's got the sniper right? Wrong these sniper's even at close range will still kill you before you can kill them due to headshots. I have put 20 rounds into them while they took a second and aimed while your scatter guns goes all over the place. And when you aim at a head with your auto scatter gun you know a % of those rounds will miss a smaller target. Or they cloak right in front of you, you don't see them in time and they chain kill you and several others fast as they can pull the trigger I watched them do it in kill cam and still can't believe it.
  7. OldSchoolD

    The long TTK is there to give ftp players with a slow connection high ping a fighting chance, which they aptly turn into an unfair advantage. Think of RU & CN players as hard to beat NPC :D
  8. Scurge

    Then they need to add head armor for all classes.
    • Up x 2
  9. Somentine

    TTK is fine. Could be upped a tiny bit if they fixed all the janky model movements/animations and slowed down sprint acceleration speed. Doubling is a hard no.
  10. Rooster128

    Doubling may seem like too long. For some gear, it might be. But for a vast majority it's going from like .25 seconds to .5 seconds. Not much at all. And giving people on subpar netspeeds a fighting chance.

    Definitely don't want everyone to be bullet sponges. That's not the intention.
  11. Somentine

    Theoretical TTKs are theoretical for a reason. What happens in game is completely different in the majority of situations.
    Latency is always going to be a problem in all nearly all PvP games, but in this game there are very real advantages to higher ping to go along with the downsides.
    Increasing TTK to compensate for players playing at high ping is not a logical move unless the majority of players are playing with high ping... in which case it would just be better to move the server.
  12. Pikachu

    What kind of games are you playing if you think that PS2 has short TTK? Are you all playing Halo as mentioned? o_O Here are some examples of other games.

    BF4 M16A4
    24 damage
    800 rpm

    COD Modern Warfare 2019 M4A1
    28 damage
    800 rpm

    Counter-Strike M4A4
    32 (chest&arm) damage
    666 rpm

    Titalfall R-201 assault rifle
    25 damage
    810 rpm

    Imagine if we gave the NC GR-22 250 damage instead of 167. That's how most other games are.
  13. TheMercator

    I can't stand people claiming that the TTK in PS2 is to short. The only problem ist that the headshot multiplier is to big.
  14. ican'taim

    Planetside 2 would normally have a higher TTK, however headshots are absurdly powerful. This completely messes up the balance, causing a target that would normally take 8-12 shots to die down to three to four shots. Sadly the idiots on Reddit will throw the biggest hissyfit ever if the infantry meta is ever touched.

    (but again, wrel has buffed the NC max and is ignoring the 3KD VS heavies so perhaps there's hope?)
  15. TR5L4Y3R

    HS multiplyer for automatic, burst and semi auto need to be adjusted in referenz to their RPM
    .. something like a EM 1 or GD7F (or whatever the faction equivalents are) should have a low HS multiplyer (f.e. x1.5) .. a gausssaw can have a high one (say x1.666 or 1.75) but still not as high as boltactionrifles (x2.0)
  16. Clone117

    itd be nice if we could get something that goes in the nanoweave slot that completely negates the hs multiplier.
  17. Somentine

    2x is basically -the- standard of any game. The only thing that is really messing with this is nanoweave.
    Headshots should be strong, and the ultimate goal of any FPS. Or, if not headshots, a specific weak point.
    Also, the bullet to kill you're saying is greatly exaggerated. In many cases it is still just double or double + 1 more bullet, even with Nanoweave.

    EM1 is one of the worst LMGs in the game, which just goes to show how little thought you put into this.
    IF they were going to change headshots, which they aren't because they are fine (nanoweave is the only real possible 'issue'), then they certainly wouldn't do it on the basis of RPM.

    Reduce it? maybe. Negate it? lol huge no.
  18. iller

    Because Headshots are practically a Binary fight decider (the Crit multiplier is rediculous for automatic weapons) , and the Design team practically encourages the abuse of corner peeking lagswitches to make headshotting a "one standard for thee, another for me" affair

    It's a really inconsistently applied "balance" formula where you're either seeing two tryhard squads instantly rail eachother or 2 spazzoids fumbling around in a circle not even bodyshotting eachother like they're both maining oddjob on 007

    Idiots in the forum and reddit have cherry picked their version that suits their preference for 8 years running and it never gets us anywhere. The real problem is no one ever talks about what kinds of DESIGN consequences or mechanic should have existed from the beginning for the people who exploit the terrible netcode issues which other ARENA shooters DO NOT HAVE

    Counterstrike is a shining example of getting away with super quick TTK that still feels fair because it was always a 60 update rate tick that's now 120 last I heard and even higher than that in Tourneys. And private servers can and DO kick out a***oles who have super Sus latency to packet loss ratios at oddly convenient times. This MMO isn't that game. There is no Replays or Admins you can actually talk to here. It's chock full of loopholes and LAZY design compromises
    • Up x 1
  19. JustGotSuspended

    I would say reducing hs damage would definitely help even ttk a bit.
  20. Thalestr

    Headshot multiplier needs to be lowered dramatically. Not only would this make fights feel more consistent, I think it would make it more enjoyable for the less skilled players because they won't constantly be instagibbed by sweaty tryhards.

    PS2 has a lot of problems that make it inaccessible to new or less skilled players but the biggest is that a large amount of the remaining player-base have achieved a level of skill that makes the game almost entirely impenetrable.
    • Up x 1