Try Slug Mattock today.

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Goldy, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. Goldy

    Think NC forget about slugs sometimes...reminder.

    Did some testing with Slugs on a Mattock.

    With one-arm-mattock it takes 2 pellets to take out someone at close range.

    With one arm mattock it takes 3 pellets to take out someone at 10m. BUT with 2 pellets at 10m, it leaves them with 1 bar of hp left.

    With one-arm-mattock takes 3 pellets to take out someone at 20m.

    So ya take from that what you will. Slugs do about 300 dmg a shot, me thinks. Couple that with extended mags and another mattock and you got yourself a very powerful weapon.

    • Up x 5
  2. Pikachu

    You kill with 2 slugs? :confused: Minimum slugs to kill is 3 always I experience, which matches that of shotguns. I have to shoot enemies 2 times with dual mattocks, if further away 3 times.
  3. Goldy

    Well In VR. Under 5m. I got 2 slugs with 1 mattock = kill.

    @5m 2 slugs with 1 mattock = kill.

    @10 m 2 slugs 1 mattock = kill.

    @15m 3 slugs.

    So iunno shrug.

    Actually, you know what? Even with body shots I seem to be getting the 'headshot indicator' with the damage coupled to that,so iunno. I think VR is borked or something.
  4. Erendil

    Yeah some of us have been trying to get NC to try out slugs for months. You know how many NC MAXes I've seen in the last month on that fired slugs? Two. If the NC are using them they're not doing so on Mattherson when I'm on.

    With Mattocks and ScatterCannons, slugs are accurate out to about 40-50m if you tap fire. The mag size really sucks but at least it solves the range problem.

    I wonder how a MAX would do if you used one arm with slugs and another with pellets...
  5. Blarg20011

    That.. actually seems like a really good idea.
  6. Van Dax

    slugs aren't as accurate as they should be.
    • Up x 2
  7. Purg

    Ah, VR. Now go do the same out in the game where you have heavies that overshield and wear Nanoweave pointing a rocket at you and enemy that actually, you know - move.

    I was a big proponent of slugs - once. I have in excess of 2000 kills with them and probably a lot of reports for hacking. They were nerfed too a while back and it felt like the CoF was also adjusted since my aim with them went into the toilet. Range was reduced and they were given a damage penalty. At one time it used to be 500hp if it hit, regardless of range. I also found those 4 shots that were lost on extended mags made a *massive* difference. If I feel nostalgic I'll throw slugs back on and there will be times where it feels like I can't miss but most of the time it's a roll of the dice as to whether I'll hit.

    If they were and it did, I'd still be using them. It became too much of a CQC penalty to gain the illusion of extended range.
    • Up x 1
  8. Liewec123

    i tested the rapid weapons of all 3 factions (nebula/onslaught/hacksaws) all uncerted (except i threw in 200 certs for nc slugs)
    i fired all of the weapons full auto and they all perform similar up to 20m, then NC fall off the radar completely, and remember this is even with certs against the stock VS/TR counterparts.

    slug ammo is just like rolling a dice, sure mattocks have higher chance than hacksaws,
    but its still just "roll 4 or higher to hit your target!"
    • Up x 5
  9. Epic High Five

    I recognize your name! I'm happy to say that I'm almost certainly one of these people, as I've been rocking the dual slug mattocks hardcore for a couple weeks. My relentless enthusiasm has resulted in a lot of [GOON]s tossing slugs on their favorite shotgun arms too, so I hope they become more common. The reason this specific setup is underused is how ungodly expensive it is - 2k certs for the arms, 1k for the xmags (which are mandatory), and 300 for the slugs.

    Buying both Grinder arms from scratch and adding slugs is only 800 certs - less than the cost of a single uncerted Mattock. The pseudo-extended mags built in are made even better by the extended mags that can be purchased later on. They're the only arms we have capable of killing a MAX at close range without a 1000 cert investment. The Mattocks are great, but everybody NEEDS to own dual slug Grinders as they're hands down our best MAX guns.

    Protip: ONLY AIM FOR THE BODY, DEAD CENTER MASS. Aiming for the head means half of your shots are going into thin air, and even IF you land a headshot, it's a shotgun so it only gets 1.5x damage boost instead of 2x. Filling your spread indicator with enemy meat is your best bet 100% of the time.

    I only run dual scatmags with slugs... i love it !!!
    • Up x 1
  11. Psykmoe

    I hated the NC MAX until Epic High Five convinced me to spend some of my double xp weekend certs on slug Grinders and now I put on the autism suit every day.

    The range extension is useful even in biolabs (blast cocky LAs off roofs e'ry day) and the secret to decent accuracy is always crouch unless actively dodging explosives. All AI MAX weapons benefit a lot from crouching, but we need it the most.
  12. Goretzu

    Yup, they are actually as "accurate" as pellets, the difference is past a certain point pellets are more likely to have a % miss which gets higher with range (although perhaps at a certain range then changes). Where as slugs just collect and front-load the damage and nerf the DPS a bit, but they actually become more totally hit and miss due to the same CoF.

    So this works out as slugs becoming the better option (than pellets) outside very close range, but still not comparing to TR/VS options in most similar ranges (you'll get lucky hit streak kills, but equally bad miss streaks too - humans being human we'll largely only remember the lucky hit streaks, but the maths doesn't forget anything).
  13. Xhaleon

    They can't be any more accurate than they currently are, because then people would be tossing and whining about NC sniper MAXes that split their heads open. And that is genuinely unfair, don't get me wrong. There's really not much you can do about that.

    The core balance paradigm here is still broken in any case, slugs cost additional certs, decreases the already weak endurance and ammo pool (less damage) and are only really compatible with two out of four scatgun choices (Hacksaw / Grinder too inaccurate), as opposed to the other two factions generally being able to rely on all four weapons with either good accuracy or having hundreds of rounds to play with (with their accurate variant spoiling them a bit).
  14. Torok

    slug mattocks are very satisfying to use, altough dps against other maxs isn't good enough slugs are still the way nowaday :D
  15. Goretzu

    I dunno they could have a minor CoF reduction, I wouldn't say all shotguns need that, but MAXes cannot ADS (which is the big advantage of non-MAX shotguns and slugs), so it would be possible with them, I think.
  16. Chewy102

    I don't think slugs are worth it. Slugs give a little range for infantry but for anything else that are worse. In fact for Mattocks it's better to have shot than slugs for MAX hunting for at least 20m.

    Slugs need 20 hits to kill a MAX. 20 when you have 12-16 total without extended mags, 20-24 with. Once you get past 10m misses start to happen even on VR targets, think about hitting something moving while you're taking fire.

    So not only do you have to pay for the weapons and slugs (2,300CP) but without extended mags on both arms you can't take on anything but infantry making the total about 3,300CP to make slugs viable for an over all loadout. Need I remind people of my thread showing that TR and VS MAXes can do anything without any cert options other than the 2nd arm?

    Hell, a dual Mutilator or Cosmos MAX costs 500CP (250CP per arm) KICKS *** before any options. Doing just that leaves the spare 2,800CP NC MAXes are forced to use for weapons for TR and VS MAXes to use on armor or abilities. Making the weapon upgrades NC MAXes are forced to have just to fight stock damn near useless if not completely pointless.

    Slugs are like putting a band-aid on a gunshot. Slows the bleeding, but wont do **** in the long run.
  17. Bill Hicks

    So other maxes can spray and kill at range I have to turn my shotgun into a commissioner? TR and VS maxes can kill me almost instantly up close but slugs are notorious for missing at close range.
  18. Plague Rat

    I run a slug max. It's a love hate relationship. I can actually hit something past 20m and still do some damage, but it is quite possibly the least user friendly weapon I've ever used on any faction. It looks good on stationary targets in a VR room, but practical use in actual combat is another story.

    You can't spray or burst like a TR or VS MAX, you MUST rely on careful aimed shots. But slugs and accuracy don't exactly go hand in hand, you're still hip firing a shotgun, so you have to take some things into account:
    -The movement CoF's are horrendous for a single projectile small magazine weapon, if you're moving, it's usually not worth shooting, even at closer ranges.
    -You absolutely must crouch in order to tighten your CoF as much as possible to even have a hope of hitting anything at mid-range.
    -With a CoF bloom per shot that rivals a sniper rifle, pausing between each shot to let your CoF recover is absolutely mandatory outside of close range. I don't care what the rate of fire says on the stat page, cut it in half if you want to hit anything past 20m with follow-ups.
    -on the upside all this movement restriction for the sake of accuracy makes Aegis shield useful because you WILL need it to eat rockets fired at what is an incredibly easy target.

    Even then at midrange you will still miss, sometimes more than you hit, even on a completely stationary target. Under identical circumstances, you might luck out and kill in the first 3, or you might burn your entire clip and not finish your target. And that's the best case scenario. Many simply can't reconcile playing in such a way, sometimes only scraping out a single kill from stationary targets from an entire magazine. Extended mags become almost mandatory if only to take the edge off the frustration.

    The thing is, when you equip slugs, it already makes the CoF a little better, but it's not enough and they really need to buff it in some respect, tightening crouch/stationary CoF to reward the compromising position you have to put yourself it, if not make the CoF recover faster. I used to say, "that might make it too powerful" in the past to suggestions like this, but then the TR got the fraction, which with it's minimal CoFs across the board and similar damage profiles, is a better slugMAX than the slugMAX, but can damage vehicles too. So any reservations I might have had are out the window. But realistically, because it is tied to a shotgun, the chances of it getting buffed are slim to nil, if not because of the stigma of shotguns and the NC MAX in general, but because they realistically don't have accurate data on slug performance to go by.

    All the same, I'll keep using them because they do tend to be the only option besides bailing to infantry (which is probably the BETTER option in that case). They're unreliable and fight you every step of the way in their use, but they're what I have, so I'll keep using it if only for the smug and spiteful sense of satisfaction when I get from a kill thanks to all the hurdle I had to jump to get it.
    • Up x 2
  19. Alarox

    We've actually used slugs and thought "holy ****, this is horribly inaccurate with Grinders and Hacksaws, and only marginally better with Scattercannons at the cost of it being entirely luck".

    With Mattocks slugs can work, but that requires 4000 more certs when we could stick with dual grinders that outperform Mattocks in every scenario except 10-20m (which is our weakness, but taking Mattocks arguably removes our strengths).

    Personally, sometimes I use slugs and sometimes I don't. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they get you killed and you feel completely useless because RNG.

    Note: 4000 because 2000 from 2 Mattocks, plus 1000 for extended mags (essentially a requirement at this point for NC MAX) plus 1000 for slugs.
  20. Psykmoe

    But slugs only cost 150 per arm.

    As a fairly casual MAX user, 800 certs for a pair of slug Grinders was a pretty good way to start out. Slowly saving up for those exmags, but having 8 shots base is already nicer than the 6 on all the other shotgun arms.

    It's very amusing how many players will commit to a shootout with me because 'lol shotguns' only for me to crouch and blow them away.

    Slug Scattercannons are marginally more accurate (I tried them on my second NC character) but Grinders are fine out to 20-25ms and the extra ammo is nice.