TR MAX Changes (Proposal)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DashRendar, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. DashRendar

    Since the VS MAX has ZOE, the rather plain and boring equal DPS different bullet damage balance format between the TR/VS MAXes has been thrown out. TR is in a weird place where it has neither of the advantages of either of the other MAXes (not that the NC MAX has any great advantage, but we're talking theoretical here) and it doesn't function any differently than the VS MAX. We can fix this.

    The TR MAX should have increased DPS with its AI arms but have a ramp up time implemented. The DPS of the arms should equal or fall just under the ZOE DPS values, and the ramp up time will force the MAX to concentrate more on sustained fire than controlled fire. This will meld well with Lockdown because Lockdown promotes a sustained fire advantage. Not to mention the TR MAX has some comically huge clip sizes, so this will be a posterity change mostly.

    For example:
    Current Mercy - 125 damage | 426 RoF | no spinup | 888 DPS
    Current Blueshift - 143 damage | 366 RoF | no spinup | 872 DPS
    ZOE Blueshift - 167 damage | 366 RoF | no spinup | 1019 DPS
    Prototype Mercy - 125 damage | 500 RoF | 1s spinup | 1042 DPSmax
    Prototype Mercy 2 - 125 damage | 475 RoF | .5s spinup | 990 DPSmax

    From here, the TR MAX will be more unique and more balanced with the ZOE MAX. Then we can buff the NC MAX up to both of their levels...
  2. IamDH

    I'd prefer if we had a new weapon versions for this or if it was certable since not everyone would like having to ramp up a gun (myself included)
  3. Ice

    I'm not sure if stock MAX weapons should be balanced against ZOE-buffed weapons.
    • Up x 7
  4. PurpleOtter

    Just revert back to the pre Mercy nerf (it wasn't much of an adjustment) and call it good...
    • Up x 1
  5. The Shermanator

    I kind of like this idea. It turns a MAX into a weapon system with a role within the larger framework of a fireteam, rather than their current implementation as just super infantry with no real purpose other than being, well, super infantry. Giving the TR MAX spin-up times would make them less of a threat by themselves; but deadly if part of a team with appropriate DPS increases once the spin-up is achieved.

    And hey, instead of lockdown, maybe the TR MAX ability could be a coolant flush that allows them to bypass the need to spool up the weapon for a limited amount of time.

    ZOE still needs to be changed, though.
  6. Bungee

    Mercy isn't stock.. but I get your point.
    As to the OP.. Spin-up time is a pretty huge downside. The HA has fired his rocket before you even fire a bullet. Given the difficulties of balancing this I have to say Im not keen. It will be UP or OP or probably OP at some points and UP in others depending on situation.

    SOE had made themselves a problem. How much DPS does a weapon gain to compensate for a loss in mobility? or an increase in damage taken or a firing delay?

    Instinctively (and having failed at using the MCG) I think that it will warrant a larger DPS buff than you are giving it. SO when I face A HA with a decimator I still die but now I am an OP god when I am defending a doorway or camping a spawnroom.. OP and UP at the same time...

    Im not saying there shouldn't be a spinup chaingun.. but its a novelty item and not any answer to Max balance issues
  7. GeneralPeragorn

    That, my dear friend, is the best thing I have ever seen.

    OT: If you are suggesting this as an upgrade with lockdown, I'd say no, because lockdown as a concept is flawed. If you are saying this as a thing, balancing it against ZOEs isn't fair against them, and it'd really screw over NC maxes.
  8. The Shermanator

    • Up x 2
  9. Bungee

    Shermenator.. I dont want it... So take your silly video and shove it where the sun dosen't shine :p
  10. PurpleOtter

    In a game where being stationary is an instant recipe for death, lockdown is virtually useless. Both the TR lockdown and the NC
    shield abilities need to be scrapped and something more effective implemented. The VS ZOE ability is all about movement, and
    hence it's inherent superior performance when used in actual gameplay. In PS1 they had to reduce the time it takes to
    deploy/undeploy to virtually zero to get it to work at all......(referring to the TR MAX ability here..)
  11. DashRendar

    Not really a spinup time, more of a ramp up time, similar to the new Vulcan/MCG. The MAX arms are quad barreled chain guns, not a single barreled machine gun... they shouldn't feel nor perform like a clip fed machine gun, they should feel and perform like a quad barreled belt fed chaingun.

    You will never kill the HA before he rockets you, the TTK is too high as it is, that goes for all MAXes. This is only a rework to make the TR MAX more unique and effective at the same time. Right now it feels mostly like a ZOE downgrade. With these changes the TR max will have a sustained fire advantage, though it will have the downside of being weak in the first half second or so. Great for point clearing.
  12. Bungee

    Thank you for clarifying that. That might work. Certainly its a strong enough idea to be tried on the test server. My misgivings remain but that shouldn't prevent someone actually trying it.
  13. gigastar

    Seems alright, but what will VS/NC MAX weapons get that is inherently different?

    You cannot balance one factions MAX weapons against another factions MAX ability, and as per the asymetric balance rule SOE is intent on keeping to if one factions MAX weapons get something new and different then everyones MAX weapons get something new and different.
  14. DashRendar

    The answer my friend is obvious, the NC MAX will receive one more nerf.
    • Up x 2
  15. gigastar

    Humorous, i like it. But im serious here.
  16. DashRendar

    I'm not sure what the other two MAXes could get that would mirror these changes. The TR MAX is the only MAX whose AI does not carry a trait that's any deeper than marginally higher RoF than Vanu with different shot audio. Vanu have higher accuracy, higher damage, and more mobility than TR, so good enough. NC have shotguns, so the trait is there (it doesn't MEAN anything in practice because it's overnerfed and needs to be buffed back, but the trait is there). I'm not really sure anyone needs anything else at this time. Though I do think the NC AI MAX is in a worse place than the TR MAX currently is by far. At least the TR MAX has Fractures to fall back on in dire situations or against a ZOE MAX, the NC MAX has no equivalent, it just has to thunk around the map wielding shotguns. In my mind, making this change to TR may be the only way to get the NC MAX buffed to where it needs to be, so I am for it.

    P.S. I'd rather not see ZOE nerfed, I'd much rather see the other two MAXes brought up to that level in their own ways.
  17. Bape


    OR OR hear me out for a second remove shotguns from NC maxes and give us dual gauss max weapons 35 rounds on each arm slow RoF but high dmg 187.
  18. GhostAvatar

    But... but we have the almighty lockdown, which out DPSs the ZOE MAX. And who needs to move anyways? its not like you can catch a ZOE MAX.
  19. DashRendar

    That would never happen. They may add additional weapons to the MAXes, but as far as machine guns that replace the existing shotguns, that will never, and should never happen. I am all for the factions being more unique, not more alike. People have been using shotguns for far too long to suddenly say "welp, you don't have shotguns anymore." Not to mention the money people have spent on them also. I may be in the minority, but I actually like that our MAX is a shotgun MAX, but having two shotguns strapped to your arms needs to mean something, it shouldn't be a greater liability than it's worth.
  20. Spartan101

    This sparked an idea from me

    No-one likes lockdown much right? how about instead of Lockdown, we get a new ability
    This ability slightly increases ROF and changes the chaingun from clip to belt fed, using the entire ammo stock at the cost of a spin up time

    This ability would work much like ZOE, on and off whenever you wanted. This ability would allow the TR max to put an emphasis on dakka whenever it is required. Having it as an ability would allow the max to perform as it normally does, allowing quick reaction to enemy units while allowing the MAX to work off the spinup time as it enters a room for a planned engagement.

    What do you think?