[Suggestion] TR is in desperate need of a .75 ADS LMG...

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by IberianHusky, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. Corezer

    I would personally rather see the recoil nerfs on the orion/SVA undone in exchange for getting a .5 ADS multiplier, and for the Betelgeuse to get 5 more rounds before overheat in exchange for .5 ADS.

    Not to "nerf the vanu" so much as to close the gap between HA and other classes. The HA is still the front line beater, but that should be more of a guideline than a rule, I am not a fan of "hard counters" either. personally I would see the shield changed to 300 damage absorbed and 18 second cooldown maxed, which is actually more shield recharged per second than the current one thus better in the grand scheme of things but not such a big impact on any individual fight while still providing a clear advantage that says "I am the class for this."

    The NS15 can keep the .75 ADS multiplier because what it gains in survivability it trades in raw DPS/TTK so it doesn't leave you additionally advantaged over other classes.
  2. ATRA_Wampa-One

    The Orion can stay as it is but I would rather the Pulsar LSW get some attachment options as opposed to the SVA-88 getting nerfs.

    Really the LSW is the only "weak" LMG the VS have and it's only weak because of that lack of attachment options and not because of it's stats.

    It really should be able to equip some ammo type (HVA or SPA) and a compensator.
  3. Gutseen

    On the other hand, TR HA hass only T9 Carv & MWS-R (aka AK) as viable weapons, all others just suck BIG time
    • Up x 2
  4. Corvus Corax

    No, you can use Bull for longer ranges. It's a good alternative to the NS weaponry and you should be able to get kills fairly reliably, the recoil pattern is simple (I think it's up and to the right, regardless it's up and to one direction of the other and you can compensate easily)
  5. I play by many names

    No offense, but any LMGs would suck when your stats are entirely C-D accuracy grade.
  6. Auzor

    And the fact that it is used in-game shows:
    -useability (less recoil, better hipfire, fast reload),
    -the limits of 600rpm as CQC weaponry (miss a shot..)
    -possibly, the benefits of having a 0.75 ads weapon. The TR in a similar sense has the armistice..

    Downside of the Cyclone: drop down 4 damage tiers, over 40m. Rubbish muzzle velocity.
    Anchor has longer 6-shot-kill range.
  7. Auzor

    Compare the TMG -50 to the Gauss Saw S, or the Flare, stats wise.
    If the TMG-50 sucks, the Flare sucks more.
    The Flare may be the only 167 dmg LMG with the horizontal recoil normally for 143 weapons (0.2)

    I also wonder if the Carv-S is underrated, I very, very rarely seem to get killed by it.
    • Up x 1
  8. Auzor

    LSW: can't get compensator:
    LMG's that have access to a compensator (and in general the same is true in other categories) have higher vertical recoil.
    Case in point, according to spreadsheet:
    LSW: 0.335. SVA-88: 0.44.
    But really, it should lose the 2.45 FSRM.
    Maybe the angled pull.
    But really, lower the 2.45 FSRM, and you have a very decent weapon.
    FSRM for LMG's varies between 1.5 & 2.5 (MSW-R..). The LSW is unique.
    I don't think HVA would save it, and I wouldn't want it to get SPA (logically would be for the SVA-88; 0.75 ads & better hipfire for the shorter ranged weapon. Also, the higher horizontal recoil of the SVA-88 should help to move the LSW more for ranged engagements)

    Finally, it would help if either the LSW or the SVA-88 was altered, say one had only 60 rounds, or only 50, etc.
  9. nehylen

    In my opinion the LSW does have a stat problem, not an attachment problem. It's the vanu LMG with the most obvious "default vanu gun" orientation. Their common principles are:

    • 698/143, default attachment choice
    • standard magazine size
    • fast reload
    • mild vertical recoil per shot
    • relatively high first shot recoil in their respective categories (look at effective first shot recoil, not the FSRM)
    • same base horizontal recoil pattern (0.2° min/max per shot)
    • some manageable degree of vertical bias
    Then there are traits not necessarily shared, and that's the problem:

    1. For the Solstice VE3 the low horizontal tolerance keeps the aim well on target on medium/long bursts. The Pulsar VS1 has the same horizontal tolerance issue as the LSW though
    2. For carbines/ARs the standard moving+stand ads CoF is 0.3 on the common 143&167 models, and the "default vanu" archetype is a little better at 0.25 on Solstice/Pulsar VS1
    3. Default hipfiring capability of their categories on the Solstice/Pulsar VS1 (makes them ok with a laser sights)
    Points 1) and 2) essentially mean that the LSW is not suited for longer bursts, while the high first shot vertical recoil implies less tap-firing. There actually is no ES vanu LMG with 0.35° move+stand CoF, while NC/TR have 2 each (the opposite of .75ads!).

    Since the Sva-88 is a LMG obviously defined for tap-firing, due to a rather comfortable first shot recoil with a compensator+no HVA(0.6545°), and is unstable for anything close to a medium burst while bearing the same damage model, the Pulsar LSW is effectively deprived of a niche.

    Finally there might also be an issue with the hipfiring potential, but standards among LMGs are quite blurry in that aspect, and it's much less important than the previous ones. At 4.25° move+stand hipfire CoF, the Pulsar LSW is in the same league as bullet hose LMGs and actually worse than uncompensated Sva-88.
    3.25~3.75 seems to be CQC LMG territory, 4.0 the middle ground (SVA only though), 4.25~4.5 the "bullet hose" category.

    So if they wanted to make the LSW a gun handled in a significantly distinct fashion from the SVA, they'd need to focus on these 3 points:
    1. horizontal tolerance at 0.5°: 0.5° is the sweet spot for 0.2° horizontal recoil guns with standard foregrip (for 0.225° TR guns also). That's what Solstice, TRAC-5, T1 Cycler, MSW-R get for instance
    2. move+stand ads CoF at 0.35°/shot, like MSW-R/Bull/Anchor/GD-22s/NS-15M
    3. hipfire same as default Sva-88 at 4.00°/shot
    4. If all of the above, possibly nerf the velocity a little to 570~600m/s, since longer bursts and hipfire are ill-suited for longer ranges anyway (+emphasize difference with SVA)
  10. Corezer

    No, I still would rather see 2 high dps tier lmgs not give a strafing buff to the most durable infantry class.

    You can sacrifice dps with an ns15 or you can sacrifice damage per mag with an SMG. no class should get it all though...

    Neither tr nor nc need .75 lmgs, vs need to lose theirs.
    • Up x 1
  11. S0LAR15

    That's fine, but then there's some serious buffs needed for Pulsar, Flare, and Ursa. Not to mention Orion accuracy buff and SPA, and SVA acc buff x 2.
    • Up x 1
  12. Corezer

    I Agree that the Orion and sva could use compensation, I mentioned it in my first post.

    As for separate lmgs, separate issue although I agree with pulsar lsw and Ursa... Flare seems fine to me tho
  13. John_Aitc

    As much as I would love to have a 0.75 ADS, that faction trait does not belong to us. For now, I will happily just keep all my extra rounds in our magazines
  14. Gutseen

    its'a frign LMG, its soul purpose is to supress and spread bullets.

    Git GUT son, only versatility matters, cuz 1n moment ur shoot'n guys over 100 meters away, the next ya get in less 40meter range.
    Bull and Rhino are NOT versatile, just some cheap knockoffs of some NC LA gun
    • Up x 1
  15. Erendil

    The Flare is definitely not fine. In fact, I'd say it's the least fine of all of the VS LMGs when compared to their TR/NC equivalents. :p Here are the stats for all 167-damage LMGs:

    https://docs.google.com/a/efsllc.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&type=view&gid=92&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=LMG&colid1=3&filterstr1=167 @ 10m&sortcolid=1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

    If you compare them, the Flare has:
    • The 2nd worst short and long reloads (tied w/ the TMG-50)
    • The 2nd worst vertical recoil
    • The worst horizontal recoil
    • The worst horizontal tolerance
    • The 2nd worst recoil recovery (shared w/ the Ursa, Anchor, and SAW S)
    • The 2nd worst FSRM
    • The 2nd worst muzzle velocity (tied w/ the Anchor)
    It's hands down the worst of the bunch. No contest. It's only good point is the combo of SPA + ext mags. But then, the SAW S has those things too, and ties or beats it on every single one of the above-mentioned stats.
    It needs some serious love. I'd say either increase its ROF to 600 as a start, or buff all of the above stats to match the SAW S.
  16. Gutseen

    TR EQUIVALENTS?! Pink got into ur head brah?
    TMG costs 2x the price for VE6, aint got Soft point, no ext mags.
    Has smaller headshot mutiplier.

    And u want to buff it? GIT GUT ya pink casul
  17. Pfundi

    Thats what its supposed to be. Ever used a EM1 and compared it to Bull or Rhino? EM1 feels really uncomfortable in comparison.
    Why? Well because you cant just give everyone all weapons. And when the "original" faction where it comes from should keep its advantage (more or less).
  18. Erendil

    First off, cost has nothing to do with weapon balance. And the headshot multipliers are the same on all LMGs. :rolleyes: But I presume you actually meant the FSRM, which you'd be surprised to know is worse on the Flare (1.85) than the TMG (1.5).

    The Flare also has worse horizontal recoil, worse horizontal tolerance, slower recoil recovery, and lower muzzle velocity tha nthe TMG. In fact, the TMG-50 has the lowest FSRM and the fastest recoil recovery of any LMG. So it's a very good medium/long range LMG if you can control the recoil, right up there with the NC 167 LMGs.

    But compared to other 167 LMGs, what stats are good on the Flare? None. The only things the Flare has on the TMG is vertical recoil, which is all of .01 lower (.44 instead of .45) and is an advantage completely negated by skill; and soft point ammo and ext mags, which makes it marginally better less sucky at close range spamming than the TMG-50 but still worse than any of the close range LMGs (Anchor, Orion, CARV, MSW-R).

    So the Flare needs something.

    The EM1 and Rhino stats are almost identical. The two areas where the EM1 is slightly worse (vertical recoil and FSRM) can both be overcome with skill. So practice more. :D

    The same cannot be said of many of the Flare's weaknesses (H.recoil, H.tolerance, reloads).

    And if the "original" faction is supposed to get the better weapons, why doesn't this apply to the TMG-50? Or for that matter the high RPM NC weapons like the GR-22 or GD-7F? Or the Cougar, a TR weapon that is better than the NC original it was modeled after (Razor)? Or Pulsar C, the best long range 167-dmg carbine in the game? Or the Orion?

    Giving the other factions flat-out inferior knockoffs is a terrible way to go about balancing the game and doesn't seem to be the way the Devs have been doing things in most cases anyway.

    That's actually why I prefer an RPM increase, since then it wouldn't be a copy of NC LMGs.
  19. Pfundi

    I didnt say I had problems with the EM1 :p
    Ok, so btt:
    I didnt use the SAW S so I cant compare it to the Tmg (but yeah, that one feels great)
    Well the GD7 and GR22 do have a big downside, what is the lack of 10 additional rounds.
    Well the Orion doesnt fit at all, and some of the others as well. But I tried :D
  20. Gutseen

    Results in that nobody will buy a outright ****** gun (TMG) with a cost of 500 certs. (that is a pain it the groin if u are a low BR player)
    Basides flare has a lot softer recoil and less spray when auto fired down sights.

    So its not falre to be buffed, but 70% of TR arsenal