TR guns are awesome

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by adamts01, Dec 2, 2019 at 7:32 AM.

  1. adamts01

    I've always been a fan of the Torque 9 and Lynx, and I just did the math to show what I'm talking about.
    The Torque 9 has max/min damages of 125/112. At its minimum damage range, it's still doing 89.6% of its maximum potential. Unless I'm certain I'm going to be fighting indoors, I often run HV ammo instead of soft point on that gun because the extra few points of damage just aren't that meaningful in most cases, but HV ammo makes hitting those squirrely targets that much easier. Compare that to the Pulsar at 78.4% and the Gauss Rifle at 74.9%. The Lynx deals 80% damage at min damage range compared to the gd7f and Serpent at 69.9% damage. Compare this to even the much acclaimed "long range" 200/167 guns that only deal 83.5% damage at min damage range. Also consider the nanoweave-friendly low bullet damage/high fire rate. This also means sound suppressors don't hurt TR as much as NC and VS. I'm a huge fan of running silencers in combination with sensor shield, and TR hands down does that the best, as minimum damage range isn't nearly as important. NC and VS SMGs have an edge, and overall the gd7f is a monster, but the added dps at mid range makes TR guns my favorite. I'm ASP99 on TR and BR90 something on NC and VS. While working on getting ASP for my alts this is just something I wanted to share for all the TR victim complex guys out there.
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  2. Movoza

    I am impressed with your solid math! There's no error anywhere! Chapeu!

    Unfortunately math (and for this more importantly statistics) require much more than this. Sonething doing 50% of it's base damage can still wreck you if it does 100000 damage, 5000 bullets and 1000 bullets per minute. Context matters. Aim, recoil, spread, bullets per minute, damage, range, unit it's fired upon, unit firing it and much much more come into play.

    So welcome to math! Get cracking in making a full picture and we'll talk! :)
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  3. Demigan

    Having felt the difference between the Lynx, Serpent and GD7F recently the Lynx is definitely a very good weapon. The Serpent might be a cheaper gun and it's still good but it's definitely not as good as the Lynx. I would say that the VS Serpent would need to simply cost 1000 certs and be brought in line with the GD7F and Lynx, albeit through the faction's strengths.
  4. adamts01

    I've actually got a pretty solid foundation in math, but I've been out of college for quite some time, so I'm glad I can at least still figure out some simple percentages. Anyway, the first guns that really clicked with me were the NS11A, NS11C, and NS15. Super easy to control and start landing headshots with. For years I believed accuracy was more important that damage. About a year ago I took advice from a bunch of Reddit elitists and started working harder on refining bursting and recoil control so I could start taking advantage of some of the faction specific dps monsters. I've come to highly appreciate their damage, as they're mostly all controllable to an adequate level with proper technique. Long range is a different story, but anything out to 40-50 meters doesn't really require anything special, at least not when they're ADAD spamming, and even the most uncontrollable bullet hoses are good enough for headshots when bursting at any range closer, which is 90% of engagements.
  5. DarkStarAnubis

    Accuracy is extremely important but other characteristics (initial CoF/Bloom) and damage model will heavily influence the outcome of the fight.

    NS weapons for example are very accurate but lack lots of other factors, so you can win fights if you keep a distance where you can be more precise and use longer burst but as soon as the enemy is too close you will be defeated by raw DPS.

    BTW - do not forget the Watchman, the only LMG that can melt MAXes in their face.
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  6. adamts01

    The Serpent is pretty damn close to the GD7F. Same rof and damage, same accuracy, shorter reload, slightly different recoil stats (A little less recoil but a 50% higher first shot multiplier).

    The Lynx deals 94% of the damage as the others up close, but surpasses them at medium range. It also has 5,000 damage per magazine compared to 4,290 for the others, as well as the quickest reload by a good bit.

    They all seem pretty well balanced to me, TR's being the most unique and sound suppressor friendly, but slightly worse off in a close range 1v1.

    How would you suggest changing the Serpent?
  7. adamts01

    I heard the God Saw is pretty good at that. I'll probably never get it to try it though.
  8. Demigan

    Frankly I have no idea.
  9. JobiWan

    The Torq is one of my favourites, and math(s) aside, that sound is awesome. So dakka.
  10. Exileant

    o_O There is a reason T.R. is so deadly. Over all, they have the best weapons in the game without dropping passed average when it comes to flaws. Textbook bad guys. Amazing toys that present a clear, horrifying problem for the Heroine/Hero to overcome. :cool: There is nothing in the game cooler or having the versatile that the T7. :eek: Drops everyone for years if you find even a quarter of a minute worth of perfect hidden flank.... When it comes to T.R. if you are not with them, YOU are the victim. :D Hahaha!
  11. That_One_Kane_Guy

    The Lynx honestly never clicked with me the way the TORQ did. The TORQ is just fantastic, though. I have the BR secondary on my Medic and sometimes I don't even bother switching it's such a laser cannon
  12. Exileant

    o_O There is a reason T.R. is so deadly. Over all, they have the best weapons in the game without dropping passed average when it comes to flaws. Textbook bad guys. Amazing toys that present a clear, horrifying problem for the Heroine/Hero to overcome. :cool: There is nothing in the game cooler than having the versatile T7. :eek: Drops everyone for years if you find even a quarter of a minute worth of perfect hidden flank.... When it comes to T.R. if you are not with them, YOU are the victim. :D Hahaha! Edit...... Blasted auto correct....
  13. OneShadowWarrior

    Some of them, some of them need fixes.

    The Butcher got overnerfed.
    The minigun way overdue for cosmetic and sound overhaul.
    The recoil level on certain weapons like the Watchman, TMG-50, Bull, Rhino, way to high for higher ROF, lower damage output.
    I can keep going on, it’s not all their weapons that are bad, but some of them need fine tuning.
  14. YellowJacketXV

    I mained TR for everything BUT their guns.
    I really can't shoot them worth **** honestly save for a couple.
  15. Exileant

    ;) They are sprayers. Unlike the other factions, for most of T.R.'s weapons; head hits are more icing than anything. :confused: You have the rate of fire to win most engagements on body shots alone if you get first lick. If you get in the zone and figure out how to head drill? Literally nothing can stop you except for the random blue with a stuffy nose holding a Saw that has a broken safety.... "III-SHOO-BA-DA-DA!!!" *14 cows a Dragonfly and 12 lost kittens fall one after the other* :oops: "Whoops..." o_O What's that T4? You have something to add? *T4 clicks* "DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD*Soldier Screams*DDDDDDDDD!!!!!"

    :eek::confused: I see your point, that was VERY insightful.... T-Thank you, no need to repeat yourself, :eek: O-OR call Repeater to do it for you....
  16. YellowJacketXV

    I really wish that were the case but honestly headshot meta is too, way too, strong.
    Nanoweave is also much, much too strong against TR guns too. It's a sort of "rule of numbers" at least on paper. Say you're shooting with a Lynx at an engagement of 30m or so. At that range you have 112 damage per bullet, given a RoF of 909 rpm that gives an outright TTK of .58 seconds. Not bad considering a 200 damage, 500 RoF weapon has a TTK of .60 seconds.

    Then you calculate the damage reduction from nanoweave.

    On the Lynx, you lose 22 damage per bullet, now setting at 90. New TTK is .73 seconds. Consider now the 200 damage, 500 RoF weapon is (granted) .75 seconds now. The problem is the lower RoF weapon is arguably more apt towards landing headshots given the fact it's recoil is much less. In essence, all they have to do is land headshots. On PC the headshot crowd is very, very fine tuned. Considering that you die in three hits to a 200 damage bullet if they all hit the head there's no way body-shotting with a high RoF weapon can actually out DPS the heavy caliber bullet rifle.

    In other words, Nanoweave armor kills the existence of "DPS" approach for weaponry. If you can't land a majority of headshots you're going to be suffering pretty hard even with a weapon of extreme rate of fire. I really wish this wasn't the case but the development team seems to have a different idea than me.
  17. AlcyoneSerene

    I do not share the "TR guns are awesome" opinion.

    They're only awesome to me in their sound effects and overall faction theme. Otherwise, I find their supposedly unique property, high rates of fire, have been given away to the other factions without receiving their share of high damage reliable accurate/controllable guns from the other factions.

    Their supposedly higher DPS in practice does not make up for their 'balancing' drawbacks of both being unreliable (RNG-type recoil drift) and of having poor horizontal recoil tolerances. The attempted trade-off factor isn't balance and results in overly-nerfed infantry weapons, and is tuned for newer inexperienced players.

    The advantages of an ever so slightly higher DPS are entirely negated by wildly varying client-side issues and network issues.

    As mentioned above, the advantages of bodyshots against nanoweave armor I believe are outweighed by those of accurately and reliably landing headshots, or just actually landing the bullets on a moving target.

    While TR guns truly don't have the low skill ceiling and skill floor of most VS ones, their potential is held back by a similar but more punishing RNG-type recoil which hurts them more than VS weapons that have this same flaw: the controllable high accuracy high rate of fire low damage ones need the accuracy to do what they do when properly burst-firing and compensating recoil angle to a moving target's head, but then the RNG kicks in and throws it off, making them good, but unreliable, and ultimately frustrating.

    VS guns either don't have such strong angular recoils, which really hurt tracking a moving target or firing while tracking, or don't rely on high RoF high accuracy and so lend better to burst firing higher damage with fast reloads to make up for smaller magazines.

    TR guns also don't have that terrible sharp first recoil kick of VS guns, making them better in that regard, meaning that first and second shot of every burst are both put to use.

    TR guns suffer the most from low framerates, something the majority of the players, especially new ones will experience with graphic settings too high, in a game continually degrading from its release day PTS DX11 levels down to stuttering, bugged, resource hogging mess that keeps piling up that the Devs clearly have no handle on and will never fix.

    Certain TR guns have been overly nerfed or serve no function whatsoever, namely the TMG-50 and the SABR, both of which could use buffs in either accuracy or ranged damage profile for the former, and damage profile at range for the latter.

    TR guns have, with the exception of the Kindred, received the worst new special attachment options, with explosive ammo and bx adapter serving no purpose, and even impact ammunition overly nerfing the magazine size of the watchman which already has terribly punishing reload speeds.

    By contrast even VS has a fun and effective spin-up mechanic on the Canis (recently buffed), or heat-based infinite ammo with good fast hipfire option on the new battlerifle, and I guess unstable ammo can blind you and your targets to help new players land bodyshots or low headshot damage at the cost of making the Maw a worse Anchor when ignoring otherwise worthless UA.

    An Auraxium TR gun, Trac-Shot with built-in laser sight and SPA and UB shotgun, has the worst angular recoil in game and among the worst random recoil drift (unreliable) that cannot be compensated for. It is every bit worse than both the stock Trac-5 which in turn is worse than the Trac-5S for accuracy. The Jaguar, which has the RPM, SPA, 0.75x ads, and vertical recoil suffers worse than all those for accuracy due to uncontrollable horizontal RNG recoil. By comparison, the VS Eclipse Auraxium carbine has infinite heat-based ammo that can also be reloaded at any time too, also with UB and laser sight, but without SPA which is a good-tradeoff considering how important ammo is on rooftops and elsewhere away from everything.

    Don't believe my observations. Keep testing different guns across different factions over and over and see what's true for your skill level, play style, network level, and hardware. I don't mean to draw generalizations, TR do have some awesome guns, MSW-R, Kindred, TRAP, TAR, TRV, I keep testing them and comparing them since it's part of the fun of playing the game across all 3 F2P factions.

    The drawbacks of TR infantry guns, however, impacts the TR faction as a whole, and that's not okay since 3 faction asymmetrical setup is important to the overall health of the game, and competitively meaningful variety keeps it from becoming stale.
  18. pnkdth

    They're unremarkable like the other factions. If you had asked me like 6-7 years ago there would have at least been some differences. These days, between all the copy/paste across factions and NS, the differences between the factions can mostly be seen in ES vehicles and MAX suits.
  19. YellowJacketXV

    This, this, a million times this.

    As a TR main I feel this pain a lot. I even made a post a while ago about how I returned to TR and realized their gun recoil felt off. After testing on NC and VS, it feels like they have virtually no recoil in comparison.

    This puts TR guns in a weird spot with the current meta. They really don't excel at anything in particular save for maybe short-mid burst fire. They don't have the VS splash damage and precision and they don't have the NC umph and alpha potential. They have high RoF that doesn't even equate to a higher DPS than the other guns.

    If TR should be the "DPS over substance" race then it NEEDS to show. They need to have more options that's reminiscent of the recent prowler changes. They have always had a theme of "encroach, lockdown, and hold the line" but the problem is that they keep LOSING options for this rather than gaining them. Back on TRs platoon haydays, the plat leaders would honestly just order MAXs with dual mutilators to just suppress a door altogether. And it worked because the enormous magazine size and rate of fire and bullet velocity made them lockdown hell mode.

    There, accuracy doesn't mean diddly squat. Accuracy in this case is "so many bullets in a general area that nothing can pass". If that is their goal of design that's perfectly fine, but don't use RNG recoil rates to make aiming hard, people need to be able to 1v1 too.

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