TR Carbine: T7 Mongrel

• 143 dmg / 675 RoF
• 32 rounds per mag
• .1875 Horizontal recoil min and max
• 0/0 Recoil angle
• .35 Vertical recoil
• 1.5 FSRM
• 500 velocity
• Standard 143 tier CoF / Bloom values
• Standard 143 tier bullet drop-off
• Reloads: 1.7 short, 2.4 long

You can probably fill the rest in, you get the idea.

Attachments:
Same as the T5 AMC, so advanced grip/ comp /HVA access
(Let's say...HVA velocity gain = 8% putting it @ 540, just 10 short of Pulsar C)

Goal / role of this weapon:
Giving TR an option between the very low DPS/ very high velocity T5 AMC and the mid-high DPS options with considerably worse accuracy/recoil. Higher vertical and lower horizontal recoil extend its effective range while reducing ease of use factor: higher handling requirement being rewarded with higher accuracy is something TR is lacking in their current options. A lack of angled recoil allows the gun to be more effective for landing headshots than Cougar/T5 AMC - which admittedly makes it easier to handle in a different way but I'm trying to make this compete with a Pulsar C alright? Reduced rounds per mag puts it between 30 round 167 dmg guns and 30 round 143 dmg guns, while its reload speed is fairly short.

Name is to fit with the very "mixed" stats of this gun as an all-rounder option, and to represent the TR value of Loyalty which dogs are well know for. I AM SICK OF CAT GUNS.

Can't have that low horizontal recoil on high RoF gun. Lowest allowed for automatic 143 dmg guns is .2.

SOE don't allow it (for the moment)

That's clearly a mistake considering that 167/600 and 167/577 weapons have better accuracy and better TTK than any 143/652 weapons.

They must do weapons like this like they gave higher horizontal recoil & high ROF to bandit & cyclone. (167 weapons are supposed to be low ROF-Low horizontal recoil-low TTK right?)

Since you deleted your thread for the second time;
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2mfes5/a_pulsar_c_competitor_for_tr/

The HC1 Cougar is actually the TR's version of the Pulsar C. It has slightly higher recoil and slightly lower ROF but neither of those things really mean anything. 27 ROF is next to nothing and recoil on a low ROF weapon only means something if you have horrible recoil control. Trying to say the Cougar doesn't compete with the Pulsar C is like trying to say the MSWR doesn't compete with the Orion. They are basically the same weapon.

And slightly worse hipfire and slightly worse attachments....a lot of slightly worse in the important stats to get something like 5m/s more velocity and a few bullets more.
Of course you can compete with the Cougar, but being slightly worse in most categories isnt "basically the same weapon".

Oh, I thought this was gonna be a mini-mini-gun that I could use on my Light assault. That would have been cooler imo.

If you are seriously concerning yourself about the hipfire ability of what is supposed to be a mid - long range carbine you have larger problems. Who cares about attachments? The Cougar gets a Comp and Grip what more do you need. The recoil on the gun is stupid easy to control as it is. Putting an advanced grip on it when it has a one directional recoil is just silly. Recoil hardly means anything on low ROF weapons.

I will give you one thing, I have no earthly idea why the Cougar is 550 ROF. Then again I don't know why the CME and Corvus exist.

God I love reddit sometimes, the conversation I've gotten myself into with that Enclave guy is gold although I probably shouldn't share it. I didn't delete the second one though IDK what your issue is there.

And bringing up MSW-R vs. Orion is not exactly making a very good case here, wow.

You did delete the second thread.

And the MSWR is the exact same gun as the Orion.

Nope, it's still up.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2mfes5/a_pulsar_c_competitor_for_tr/

/popcorn

The thread doesn't actually show up on the subreddit. You have to go to your post history to find it.

Good people understand how they are the same. Bad people do not because they lack the skills to understand such things.

Well there are quite a lot of situations where you are on top of a building or some other nice place and another LA shows up. Better hipfire is an advantage on all weapons since you cant always prevent CQC situations. Even if you arent competitive either way it still increases your chances a bit.
Even if the recoil is already easy to control, calling it silly to further decrease it doesnt make much sense to me. Isnt a further decrease in recoil always preferable?

Of course all those differences are small or even situational, but they are there and they favor the Pulsar C pretty one-sided.

Ah well, RIP reddit thread. I'll make a new reddit account and a new but similar suggestion later.

Good people understand the differences, but can make both work "well enough". That doesn't mean they are equal, and they definitely are not.

I personally don't really concern myself with the hipfire ability of a weapon unless I actually plan on hipfireing it a lot. Example being Serpent vs VX6-7. The differences between the two is actually minor, same with the Cougar vs the Pulsar.

When it comes to recoil, yes being able to lower something further is always a good thing. However trying to claim the Pulsar C is better because it has an advanced grip and the Cougar doesn't is just silly. The Cougar doesn't need one. Along the same lines I don't think the Puslar C really needs one either.

I have never said the Cougar was better then the Pulsar C. I have said that they are basically the same gun and that it competes with it. Between the two the Pulsar C is very slightly better. To try and make the claim that the TR doesn't have a gun that compete with the Pulsar C and that they need one is just flat out wrong.

The MSWR has faster reload, one directional recoil, better moving ADS COF, better hipfire, and soft point. The only advantages the Orion has is ADS speed and slightly lower FSR. The VS as a whole have better optics.

Ah you're one of them one directional recoil believers. Not surprising.

Good job cherry picking one thing I said. Directional recoil is controlable and less annyoing then jittery recoil. Jitter is one of the major reasons I find the Beetlegeuse annoying to use even after close to 4000 kills. I am able to be way more accurate with an Orion because of the Grip. It removes a great deal of the jitter.

A recoil can be controlled to some degree, but that doesn't mean it makes a gun more controllable than a 0/0 angle gun. It only adds an extra difficulty in handling/recoil compensation.

Here's a handy guide:

http://ps2guides.besaba.com/mechanics#recoil_mechanics

If you have two guns with the same recoil values, but one has a bias and the other doesn't, the one without the bias is a better choice.

Since I am on my phone I will make this very simple for you. At long range both are going to have an issue because of any degree of randomness in Recoil. At mid range one directional Recoil is easier to control because it's jitter is always going to be up and to the right in a specific area. Side to side jitter doesn't have that. The myth is one directional Recoil doesn't have any jitter. It does but it is always in the same area. The gun won't jump to the right off target then back to the left in the way side to side Recoil does.

At the end of the day you still cherry picked what I said.

This a false assertion, which you can see by simply firing these weapons in game and looking at their patterns on a wall.

Your gun will generally recoil in one direction, sure, but when you correct its direction you're only getting it back toward roughly the pattern you'd get with a 0/0 angle gun anyway. It still has the same amount of jitter, just along an extra angle other than vertical which you have to compensate for.

Recoil angle isn't really "directional recoil" as much as it is an adjustment to the vertical recoil angle your horizontal recoil is going off to either side from.

tbh this sort of thing is only a problem if you don't have a grip. It basically removes the jitter on both guns. Either way you still ignored everything else I said. I'd say more but typing a lot of crap on a phone is a pain.