[Suggestion] Total class rework

So I've been playing for a few weeks now, and the issues with the different classes are glaring. To me it just doesn't make sense.

Right now we have Infiltrator, Light Assault, Engineer, Medic, Heavy Assault, and MAX.

I propose streamlining the whole system down to 3 classes: Light Infantry, Heavy Infantry, and Support.

Heavy Infantry would be the front line fighters. Access to LMGs, RLs, ARs, Heavy Guns, basic grenades. Can cert into AI (lighter armor, weapons with high RoF and magazine size to match) or AV (MAX style heavy armor, heavy hitting weapons that are slow to fire). The tank class from MMOs. More hp than other classes matched with cumbersome slow movement speed.

Light Infantry would be the Special Forces of Auraxis. Access to Carbines, Shotguns, SMGs, Sniper Rifles, Grenade Launchers, Claymores, C-4. Depending on where you want to put your certs could go either Sniper (kickass long range rifles) Saboteur (access to heavy explosives) or Recon (jet packs and laser targeting for artillery). No more cloaks. OHK weapons to make up for that. No more immersion robbing knives as a viable primary weapon. Fastest movement speed with available boosters to be even faster. The DPS class.

Support would be just that. Near useless in straight up combat. Go medic to gain big XP healing and reviving or mechanical support to access and repair vehicles. Squishy factor somewhere between Light and Heavy. Again, the Support Class.

To break it all down, the Heavy would get XP for killing things and blowing **** up. Light would get XP for hacking terminals, sniping, and blowing **** up. The support class would gain XP through healing, reviving, and the killing of enemies with vehicles and the repair of said vehicles. Discourage inappropriate use of support by denying players XP for actions outside of their individual specialization (i.e. no XP for medics who insist on trying to play a "battle healer").

I understand that this entire notion is going to push a lot of you into full blown hysterics, but just to be fair I'll tell you right now that QQ to me is like spinach to Popeye. Let it begin.

Polite non-hysterical No.

Personal opinion, in this late stage of the game, to suddenly rework classes like this would changing the game completely and making it monotonous.

This may kill the game because it would be boring and rigid denying XP, cause, 'You're not supposed to do this like that, do it like this.'

I had a sensible argument with valid points before I forgot.

Play the game a bit more.

So basically, one class for direct combat , one class for OHK & flanking, and one class for supporting those.
2 for combat, one that gets nothing for anything but healing & reviving.

As well, apparently you discredit combat knives as viable weapons - which they are.

You can support people with bullets, just as you can support people with a heal - just a note.

Not seeing the appeal in this.

I am completely discrediting combat knives as viable weapons. Since it's stupid. I mean, seriously man, the Vanu have friggin laser guns. LASER GUNS. Why is anyone running around with a knife? Makes no sense.

As humans are fragile, it doesn't take a high energy laser to piece light armor let alone the joint points in any armor.
Nanite-technology, also allows a very advanced blade made of the same material as the armor if not better, add in nano-scaled machines being delivered cutting out any issues with heat or loss from any high-speed transfer or projectile system, and you easily have fatal melee weaponry.

After all, the human body doesn't need an energy pulse to end its bodily functions.
And for every bit of advancement in armor, weaponry advances forward.
For every projectile advancement, a heavier variant of the same can be applied into melee without any range issues.

So yes, "knives" are viable.
Since they aren't Kitchen knives, they are combat knives built to pierce the very armor created & used by infantry.
As well, those Vanu energy weapons aren't true lasers not mention such weaponry are reliant on exposure time.

No.

That's about all the discussion this "idea" merits.

So a quarter of the gamers that play only infiltrators should just leave? MAke us all a favor and never again think you have any idea of hovv to design a game like planet side is just VVAAAAAY UP THERE FOR YOU and you probably in your entire life vvouldnt be able to reach that shelf.

hahahha nice vvay to put it vvhen if you take avvay infiltrators and medics... you just simply kill 50% of your customers hahahaha this gay should really shut the hell up, and this is not being rude he is the one being absolutely blunt.

No, plasma guns. Plasma is different, it's just another state of matter and unlike a laser it has both kinetic and heat energy. However heat energy dissipates quickly during the flight to it's target.

The NC and TR use bulletweapons. Bullets have a certain kinetic energy. The amount of recoil you experience is the same kinetic energy you put in your tiny bullet. Even a shotgun doesn't blow you back unless you are standing wrong. So the kinetic energy of a knife, especially a well-honed sharp one, is much much higher when you swing it than a bullet since you can throw your weight behind it. Proper use of a sharp knife, especially one using techniques to better penetrate armor, can easily outperform a bullet.
Also consider that PS2 humans are build from the ground up by nanites. This gives them the unique ability to build humans with specifications. For example they can remove the intestines and replace them with special fat tissue, no need to eat on Auraxis if you can carry enough food for days in your stomach and if you do manage to live that long... Respawn. This is also the reason why infantry can keep going at 100% speed up until death: There's barely any vital organs and the armor+specialized skin+special muscle structures can make a bullet through your arm almost irrelevant. Basically you are killing your opponents by making them lose blood on impact and pummeling them to death slowly. Compare that to a knife wound that cuts up a whole section of body and armor and you see the advantage.

Thoughts and ideas are always interesting to read. But this one doesn't work for me because:

• HA is already the most popular class with their LMGs - giving them ARs as well seems kind of redundant. And a Max armour option on top of everything else? nah, too much in one class I think.
• I assume LA would be able to have a jetpack OR a sniper rifle? Having both would be way too OP bearing in mind the range and killing power of sniper rifles and the places you can get with the jet pack.
• Make support classes less fun to play? No, really no. I myself like playing engie and medic (they are quite tasty in combat if you play them the right way) but I am clearly in a minority already and why would anyone want a class that can do even less?

And what's the objection to knives? CQC and hand to hand combat by actual humans is still a thing on Auraxis. There's always a place in that scenario for sharp pointy weapons, hitting people really hard (Max Punch) and even, if you think about it, spiky knobbly clubs (although you can't equip them.............yet).

Your arguments as to why you should be allowed to run around with your silly knives are still empty. You do understand Auraxis is a planet in another solar system? And that humans developed the technology to travel there? And you're going to still maintain that whatever armed forces there are going to rely on knives as weapons? Seriously? Knives?

I feel bad for the Infiltrators. I don't want to push them out, I want to give them more choices how to play. Not get pounded into the same cookie cutter as everyone else. I don't see the class as anything viable in its current state. Can't even bring myself to play as one. As I've said merge the Infi and LA classes. Let them pick either the jet pack or the cloak and whatever gun they want from either class.

Yes, I did say give the jet pack to the guy with the sniper rifle. Or, take the cloak instead and some C-4. It would make for awesome, insanely frantic fights.

Personally I don't care about k/d ratios or any of that crap. I play to have fun. I care so little I'm fact that I let my kids play on my account. Apparently a large portion of the forum warriors here do. I can tell. They've done their best to play how they were told to on Reddit or whatever and care so much about stats that they don't care about fun. How sad.

Oxygen is still oxygen regardless if in a bottle, a comet, or another planet.

Since a proper combat knife is designed, and capable of shredding body armor, with its mass greater than a bullet, an actual edge, and more force than a bullet? Yes.
Practicality.
They aren't the knives in your house, they are combat knives. Call them daggers if that makes you feel better.

"More choices" by removing what allows them to engage opponents at their ranges, and not be shot to death before aiming.
- Hint, that's cloak.

Why in **** merge the two exactly? LA's have shotguns, Infils do not. They have entirely different jobs.
The weapons are also balanced for their respective capabilities.

If by insane, you mean a Sniper on a spot, where no gun but a sniper could reach, and none without a jetpack could reach as well...while the sniper literally just picks off them as they try.
Cloak with C-4, recall land mines, now imagine instant-kill explosives that work on vehicles, you turn a corner, and C-4 explodes on your tank's rear, in an open field.

Or walk into a room or be in any room, and die to a shotgun to the face by a cloaked infiltrator.

Irony.
You want infils & LAs to play as you believe they should, since you believe it.
And now go off about people being forum warriors for not agreeing with you.
I love it.

I don't see the "fun" in a cloaked **** exploding tanks in open fields, cloaked shotguns, jetpack snipers, or that crap...
Just insanity from a practical stand point.

Place a sundy? C-4 appears.
Move a tank? C-4 appears.
Walk into the open? Sniper on top of some flag tower.
Shotgun blasts from delayed decloaking infils.
Like dear lord.

As far as the support classes go, I still have yet to see a decent engineer or medic.

What I have seen are engineers too involved with their deployable turrets to do anything else, and medics who don't do heals. And medics who revive you in horrible spots. Or medics who shoot you in the back, then revive you only to shoot you in the back again. Are there any good ones? My experience says no. Maybe it's such a small percentage that I'll never see good support personnel.

Really, the same thing is my biggest beef with Infiltrators. Too many people playing badly.

So there's 3 classes whose populations are unable to be effective in that role. Having cannon fodder is nice but it makes the game predictable. Predictably sucks the fun right out of a game like this. You know exactly what certain roles are going to do, where they'll hide, everything. All due to PS2 not allowing individuality in the progression of a character outside of cosmetic choices.

Which is stifling the game.

"So merge the engineer & medic, so the support class has to pick between a mix of equipment designed for specific differing roles,as so few use the singular set well enough!"

Too many people play badly, so reduce the classes, and mesh the capabilities together in a ungodly mess, so things that shouldn't be practical or possible can happen...
Like if they play badly as a medic, wtf you think they'll do when they can have a mish-mash rather a straight simple kit?

By your logic, they are cannon fodder,:that wouldn't change if they had one-class and a noah's ark load of options.

Stiffling the game, by not allowing Snipers in LA places, whom lack weapons capable of abusing their movement advantage to the extreme.


Let what kind of progression you expecting?
You can't turn a tank (Heavy) into a necromancer (medic), but seemingly that is what you want?

You're either completely missing my point or being willfully obtuse. Planetside 2 is an old game. Like Pac Man. And like Pac Man, once you learn the pattern, you win. I understand that some of you have been around since the beginning and have learned what buttons to press when, and only care about your stats. Which is fine if that's your thing, but seeing how the majority of players are trying to go outside the box with their respective roles ( the "bad" players), I would say I'm not alone in my thinking.

Honestly I'd like to see all these cookie cutter classes done away with. Maybe for Planetside 3 have no classes at all and do it like DUST514 did with skill trees where you could take a little of this and a little of that. Specialize into something or be more jack of all trades. More options to play how you want rather than how you're forced to.

Like CounterStrike.

When you talk about "patterns," in PlanetSide Classic the developers went with the approach you are discussing and people learned the "pattern" of the skill trees. This lead to the emergence of the one-man army loadout paradigm, which only became more prominent as more certification points were allowed players to unlock (at an earlier point in the game's life, it was limited enough to not be an issue). As populations declined, what little diversity actually existed in the game, dependent on the existence of a diversification of playstyle, took a severe nosedive. That lead to a larger presence of the OMA concept.

Having six specializations and diversity within a specific range of options on top of each those specializations beats a paradigm where one framework becomes good at tackling all problems, even specializations.

(Note: I am excluding discussion about BR40 where everything except command and prestige options were unlocked. That does not mean I liked it; but, nothing written above was directed at it.)

Short PS2 history:
Something makes a moon of Jupiter explode, humans notice a portal there, portal closes again.
Humans are afraid of this power, cease warfare, create a unified earth under TR rule and go into a space-age.
When arriving at the destroyed Jupiter moon no aliens are found. Eventually human finds a small statue in the wreckage of Jupiter moon, when touched he only hears the word "Vanu". In the meantime the TR becomes more oppressive for the sake of public safety as small rebellious elements become more agressive in their attempts to segregate from the TR.
Humans figure out when the portal opens up again and how long it'll open. They expect the portal to be open for a few months, allowing them to go through, do research on the other side and go back. A beloved TR ex-President who tried to make the TR less opressive manages to combine a research group consisting out of TR soldiers, scientists led by the guy who found the Vanu statue and a large conglomerate of corporations that fund most of the ships there.
Once less than half of the ships go through the portal closes, most of the ships still in the portal are destroyed and barely any of the agricultural ships that were supposed to keep everyone alive make it through.
Emergency status is called off on the remaining ships. With limited food and supplies they have to make their way through space, while they never intended to stay more than a few months.
People and supplies are stretched thin, TR applies oppressive regime to keep peace on the ships, this culminates in the beloved TR Ex-president being assassinated (the only one trying to control the TR forces). Shortly after they find the planet of Auraxis, along with most of the Vanu technology, but without any of the aliens. Again, these are the aliens that could blow up a planet on the other side of the universe, and they are gone? Humans see no option but to colonize it. The few thousand men and women who survived have a tenuous peace.
Scientists become more cultist to the Vanu figure.
War breaks out on the planet they are still colonizing.
Vanu discover how to use the leftovers of the rebirthing grid. They didn't invent it, they only figure out how to use the grid left by the previous owners. Quickly the other two factions manage to steal/figure out how to use it as well.
Eternal war ensues.

So first of all, these Humies didn't exactly "invent" the spacetravel to get there, and most of the technology and knowledge needed to actually build warmachines wasn't even present. They also have to work with a construction system build by the Vanu (and not the Vanu sovreighnty). So even if they do know perfectly how to build something, they still have to figure out how to make the super-cheap and quick nanite system to build it for them.

Second of all, you are assuming that bullets will still be conventional warfare. Considering that watershields and Graphene/Carbon Nanotube armor+spiderweb skin will make bullets smaller than a .50cal pretty much harmlessly bounce off, it's safer to assume that specialist knives with high-tech functions to prevail than conventional bullets if you are going to assume a realistic approach to warfare.
Also think of micro-sattelites. A group of a few hundred to a thousand, spaced out with a few thousand kilometers between them, is theorized to be capable of making google-earth quality pictures... Of planets in other solar system. Now apply the same but by using micro-drones (fly-sized) spread around the stratosphere. Any tank or infantry exiting the Warpgate would get insta-killed by a nice guided artillery shell unless they use stealth technology. Or by a specialized missile tailor-made for the threat that exits the wargate. So realitically if we assume the PS2 universe, knives would actually be one of the most used weapons after long-range artillery.
And that's all excluding other technological advancements like nanobots, which can function similar to diseases but by "infecting" vehicles and degrading them or vital parts to dust slowly. Electronic warfare overtaking entire systems or complete vehicles and aircraft (pretty likely considering entire facilities are overtaken in mere minutes of controlling the main controlpoints, hence infantry still controls most). Improvements in biological and mechanical improvements for cyborgs or even semi-biological vehicles like a tank with a biologial creature inside to perfectly control it. Biological designed brains, think of Einstein, Steven Hawking etc who with their relatively small brains are capable of feats most computers still can't do, but now create a brain the size of a truck. You basically create a biological super-AI. Basically the whole fact that there's still "humans" around doing the fighting and not biologically&mechanically created warmachines in all shapes and sizes, from nanoscale to entire bases, is a miracle.
But let's just nitpick about knives being a bad idea in a futuristic game...

Accept PS2 for the game it is: It's arcady, and that allows it to mess around with stuff. Plasma weapons? Not exactly useful in the real world. Knives? Still useful, even if you assumed a more realistic approach to warfare.

The class is one of the most powerful currently available to the game. While the HA still has AV options and is easier to use, the Infiltrator becomes better with higher skill and capability. Just because you apparently can't work it, doesn't mean the class isn't viable. Maybe you thought, like some players do, that the only way the Infiltrator is viable is when it's using Stalker cloak?

Cloak is a perfectly good ability in the game. There's absolutely no reason to remove it. Especially not because you can't work it. There's plenty of people who can, there's plenty of people who do enjoy it. But oh noes, just because you dislike it, it has to go!

I don't think that LA's with sniper rifles isn't a big problem. Cloak allows for much safer sniping than perching LA's. LA's can reach the "best" spots, but the "best" spots are usually also the easiest to counter-snipe. Say by a cloaked guy who you won't see gunning for you until the bullet rips through your eyesocket. Even without cloakers many weapons are plenty good for countering a sniper.

If you don't care about KD, why are most of your idea's so good for farming it? Two classes will become combat-oriented KD ******. While only one class becomes the punchingbag that isn't even rewarded for killing with sub-par weapons, and is only there to wave his wand and revive people? Seriously? You advocate "fun"?

Never thought that far into Planetside, this sickens me but I'm also fascinated.

Thanks for the history lesson. Still not buying it.

Anywho under my proposed system the "punching bag" would start out like everyone else. You wouldn't get your tool until you certed into it. This would require an investment by the player who chose to go support class to actually play support.

Also, your notion that I can't make Infiltrator work is completely wrong. I just find the class stale.