[Suggestion] Tool think tank.

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Wolfwood82, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Minsc

    I gotta say, lots of fun ideas, but incredibly hard to follow what you are talking about sometimes. What do the numbers in brackets mean? Why not use the word "variable" instead of d.w.b.y.o or whatever acronym you used?

    In your post the tool is incredibly lacking. We get a target designator for lock-on weapons? If a gun requires it, either no one would use the gun and the ability would be useless or the gun would be OP and everyone would spam it. I think the long range spotter's scope should make lock-ons faster, make enemies more visible at all ranges and reveal health/occupancy (assuming they get rid of that in normal spotting, or at least make that info shorter range). Jump jet toggle I totally agree with, and really hope happens eventually.

    HA default is pretty much that ability. But maybe a lockdown ability that prevent a lot more damage but the character cannot move or attack. So the HA becomes a human shield.

    The infiltrator mine scan would be great cert option for the recon darts.

    CM: shield generator would be interesting but I'd rather see something that replenishes special ability fuel (though not to the casting medic or others casting the ability replenish)

    Engie: having a deployable jump pad would make LA less useful by a lot. Our ability is to get over walls and such. If a normal unit can allow everyone else to do so, why be LA? I'd rather give them an anti-vehicle turret and/or a pure shield turret.

    MAX: a back-mounted rocket launcher would be quite cool, lock-on only of course. But they should not repair themselves. Part of using a max is teamwork.

    Apologies to the LA forum, a lot of that was not LA related :p
  2. Yalk

    Basically this discussion could be boiled down too:

    Do we want a team based tool that directly benefits our squad alá Medic/Engineer (healing/ammo) -OR- do we want a tool that indirectly benefits them alá HA/INF (Rockets/hacking)

    Sprinkled with a bit of Internet posturing as pointless filler


    I guess I liked the "scavenge ammo off my enemies" to stay in the field longer like was stated might be done, but I rarely have ammo problems and it adds immersion to have to link back up occasionally for refit/re-arm

    I also liked the idea of giving LA a 1 or 2 use revive (or heal only tool)....I tend to be behind enemy lines a lot but its usually with a squad...sucks when the medic gets knocked out, or the INF before he can hack a terminal....would also be useful for when it's me and the other couple LA's being sheer awesome....it could cost resources etc draw backs....would be like a first responder as well, not as good as medic but useful

    The other idea I liked was the zip line tool....provide mobility for my squad? Yes please...you get two spikes, plant 1 within a pretty large radius you plant the other and it provides a travel line between them....up, down, laterally ....destroy 1 and the other pops

    (Of course it would be nice if the bases were actually, idk....hard to get into....as is, most time my squad gets into the base through the huge front gate by the time I'm over the wall....I'd like to be needed to take out a gen before anyone could hope to gain entry)

    On the laser designator....how to make it useful? Other than spotting, which Q does already? Easy, reduce lock on time and increase range of homing missiles and allow limited tracking of non homing missiles...there ya go, that would increase LA popularity with HA over night

    "Holy sh*t the entire Vanu pop is here with all the magriders of mordor, quick! LA get on that roof, the rest of you HA, with me! HAZAAH,"

    Or something like that

    Oooooor, what a novelty...how about all of them...you get the first for 1 cert but any others cost a pretty penny in certs and only one could be equipped at a time....then we have choice and a dynamic class
  3. Wolfwood82

    This was the intended direction I wanted the thread to go in. It was derailed with suggestions for actual tools though, unfortunately.
    I'd be cool with this except that combat medics already serve this role. They act as the field medic and the respawn chambers act as the back up fail safe. It wouldn't be very balanced if they had 2 back ups instead of one.
    I initially thought of this idea while having to scale mountainous terrain. I also realized that zip lines in the caves of PS1 also drastically improved movement speed of grunts on the run. So not only would it help get infantry into bases along the walls, it would also serve as a faster means of getting them to the fight via a zip-line highway, or a faster means of scaling cliff faces to avoid long walks around large rock formations.
    That's a thought and I like it a lot. But really if anyone was gonna have some kind of spot enhancing tool, it should be the infiltrators. Marking and calling targets is kinda what they do.

    I honestly don't think we need more weapons that serve the same functionality as HA weapons. Wrist rockets, flamethrowers, other things that pop out of our wrists... These all scream "SWTOR Bounty Hunter" and while I wish they had made SWTOR into a more FPS styled game so that having a jet pack actually MEANS something, I don't think copy/pasting those ideas directly into PS2 is the answer to all our problems.
  4. Jack tha Man

    Well to start the numbers indicate Wich bases that needs to be controlled in order to gain the reward this is as you say not really obvious to understand since I didn't explain this... Figures. I wrote this late at night so that's why there are some trouble to understand sorry for this..

    Well the idea was to make the already ingamebuilt lock on weapons like hawk and shrike even better since these now require direct line of sight to make the lock. My idea was that this Tool removes the need for a direct line of sight since the targeting leaves a indicator that when aimed at with the lock on weapons function as the target grapple instead of the actual tank.

    How is this similar? I mean that instead of digging trenches they deploy a shield wall that works as a cover like a box or base wall.


    Well not really since this would make the has almost immortal since they keep the awesome shield
    .this is true tho as I said in my thread.. some of the ideas ain't mine and I just added em to show different rewards tho ur idea is the better. [/quote]
    Yes ofc lock on only.. and this could be true tho as I said the repair would be slow..

  5. Yalk

    Eh, yeah the medic is THE revive/heal guy...but, how would it break that if LA had a SINGLE use gun that maybe only healed or maybe could revive a single guy....you then had to spend 100 inf resources for another "charge"

    You definitely would not replace the medic with that....not feasible, BUT it would be infinitely useful for small squads....or teams of LA etc

    I see what your saying but I don't think it would effect medics role in the least

    I really wish we had a zip line though....

    Really...I wish we could cert both

    Zip line for larger squad , med dart for commando ops
  6. Wolfwood82

    I'm not thinking about the direct impact on medics. I'm thinking about the impact on the game. What it would do to large scale battles, and how it would affect LA squads who are no longer tied to the main unit at all since they can resupply ammo and heal eachother/themselves.

    Right now the respawn system is fairly well balanced with itself. You die, you have 2 chances of getting back up or at least respawning close to the fight. Either a medic revives you or someone had the foresight to bring in a Sunderer. Adding a 3rd "safety net" in the form of LA being able to revive, would ruin that careful balance. Then other things would have to change to prevent the flow of battle from being dramatically altered from this simple change. Things like respawn times on both Sunderers and bases would have to increase.

    The same applies to having AV weapons on LA as well as HA, you have to adjust vehicle armor and/or damage that these weapons do against vehicles to compensate for the added firepower, or else they will make vehicles useless resource sinks.

    And the same can be said for other tools that start encroaching on other roles directly. Recon tools like binoculars or area denial tools like caltraps. These things start moving into other class fields. And let's face it, the LA would probably make a better everything. Which is why we need to have a clearly defined role for not just LA but every other class, so that the game doesn't get screwed up because we gave the LA something we figured they would just be able to use.
  7. Yalk

    I disagree

    A 1 off heal tool would do jack all to the over all flow of battle (and where did I mention re-arm?)

    It would mean the most in small base encounters etc....the over all game balance wouldn't even notice....and if it was priced at 100rec, well...lets see... I can barely stay stocked in grenades and C4, if we added such a tool I'd maybe have....1 or 2 available, not game changing, you couldn't just waste them....hell, maybe make it so you can only use it on squad mates...

    The zip line you could restrict to squads as well <<<<<<< this is really what I want, you could even give it durability to break after a certain number of trips

    But you'd like to discuss roles, hrm

    The main roles I see LA performing

    I think LA is in the same role as HA...but mobility instead of durability, personally I think they should have kept C4 cheap for them, it was their rocket launcher

    LA are the ones built to take out the support units, medics and engineers so that their front lines crumble under HA pressure

    LA are more commando units...explosions, mobility....tricky but not necessarily subtle


    I just want to be wanted by my squad, I do plenty to help them....they just don't notice because its not obvious like ammo or healing
  8. Minsc

    I agree with Yalk on what our role is. And feel it should stay as our focus, but possibly with something less aggressive for coordinated play. We are for killing people/vehicles, but at closer ranges than the HA.

    But I disagree with Yalk on the Medic Gun. During early beta, LA has a limited use ammo pack and it was quickly removed because it let us camp for way to long. It also made Engies less useful. Giving us a limited use medic gun would do two things, make medics less useful and not penalize us for dying when in a hard to reach spot by ourselves.

    Our role, and hence our tool, should be to enhance our killing ability or mobility. Zip Lines would be fun, but would be very difficult to implement in the game. Implants would help with killing and/or mobility, as would the wrist-mounted weapons but they don't particularly help with team play.

    Squads would continue to not like us because we don't bring anything new. HA can kill vehicles (including air) at a distance, so why use a unit that has to land on them to kill them? Binoculars would help that, but might be stepping on the toes of infiltrators. The recon dart tool would need to be tweaked if we do receive something of the sort (perhaps reveal enemy mines/explosives?).

    However, Higby has mentioned that we are more of a lone-wolf/commando class in the dev's eyes. Ideally I would like to see a tool that works alone and with team play. Right now our only real team play element is placing spawn beacons in hard to reach places.
  9. Kugelfisch

    My suggestiong:
    A "Rage" mode where everything you do is performed quicker. Faster reloads, faster heal injection, faster movement and maybe even recieving more damage to balance it out.
    Nothing mayor, really. Just like some extra five percent to what makes LA best (speed) and what makes him worst (fragility).
  10. Mattressi

    I really like this idea. I don't think it would mean that LAs would go either DJ or JJ, because it's not the same effect. Basically, it's a one-use (with cooldown) ability which quickly propels you a short distance. It burns fuel right at the start of its use and does not provide acceleration after the initial thrust - the direction you initially thrust can't be changed once you've pressed the "f" key. You wouldn't be able to thrust vertically higher than even level 1 JJ nor could you thrust further forward (or maybe in any horizontal direction?) than level 1 DJ would let you. It would actually make DJ and JJ even more different, IMO: JJ would get the forward thrust, making them an all-round fast assault pack, while the DJ would get the vertical thrust, allowing them to either quickly get out of a fight or to gain some air for their drifters.

    So long as the vertical thrust distance for DJ is kept to a little more than the balcony of a 2 story building, the forward thrust for JJ isn't too great, and it has its own cooldown, I think it would add more variety and make the choice between DJ and JJ quite important, depending on the situation.

    Alternatively, you could even just have two thrust tools, one vertical and one horizontal, and not tie them to DJ or JJ at all. I think that might actually be the better option - I like using drifters, but I'd also love to have the ability to really dash forward fast, to close the distance. Likewise JJs could use vertical thrust to give them a higher jet and to simply jet much faster (though not further) than usual.
  11. Corezer

    Only ideas I can come up with...

    IR Stain:
    An IR laser that emits a beam so powerful, IR particles remain on the target for a time after prolonged exposure. The LA gets a critical kill assist for kills on stained vehicles. (max range pending)

    Rank 1 (free)
    After 7 seconds of continuous exposure, paints the target, spotting them and reducing lock on time by 25% while negating flares/smoke (15 seconds)

    Rank 2 (30)
    After 6 seconds of continuous exposure, paints the target, spotting them and reducing lock on time by 30% while negating flares/smoke (30 seconds)

    Rank 3 (100)
    After 6 seconds of continuous exposure, paints the target, spotting them and reducing lock on time by 35% while negating flares/smoke (45 seconds)

    Rank 4 (200)
    After 5 seconds of continuous exposure, paints the target, spotting them and reducing lock on time by 40% while negating flares/smoke (60 seconds)

    Rank 5 (500)
    After 5 seconds of continuous exposure, paints the target, spotting them and reducing lock on time by 45% while negating flares/smoke (75 seconds)

    Rank 6 (1000)
    After 4 seconds of continuous exposure, paints the target, spotting them and reducing lock on time by 50% while negating flares/smoke (90 seconds)
  12. Corezer

    unlike lock on weapons, this has to be held directly over the target, no cone.
  13. Wolfwood82

    This pretty much falls into the category of strategic assault. We aren't great at mobile warfare because we rely on maneuverability, not mobility. We can maneuver faster while still operating within the same constrictions as other infantry. Compared to vehicles however, we are slow and sometimes clumsy (compared to air).

    HA can handle mobile warfare, they don't require targets to be stationary in order to engage or destroy them. And their weaponry even provokes movement from enemies which can impact their accuracy when firing on said HA. Hence why they are very tactically oriented. In infantry combat, HA can stand not having defined front lines. They thrive on that kind of chaos while LA are constantly gunned down from behind by other LA in a constant game of cat vs cat, and also have to worry about the mice who aren't focused on other mice and have time to check their 6s and watch the rooftops.

    HA also help form strategic firing points where medics and engineers thrive the most. They move to engage the enemy and break firing lines, but usually they can't do it without LA there to shatter them from behind.

    It's been mentioned already that we are meant for flanking, taking out support, taking out sunderers, and causing mayhem behind enemy lines. We've also been called commando units. All of these things can be summed up into a single role, strategic assault.

    The best way to improve our ability in performing that role requires more assets then the game can really provide right now. We honestly need artillery that we can spot for.
  14. Minsc

    What about a spotting tool that allows for lock-ons without line of sight? That way an LA could spot a tank hiding over a ridge, mark them, and HA could lock-on and shoot up in the air for the rocket to track back down to hit the tank. There would still be a lock-on notification and timer. It would act like artillery without having to add artillery. The laser targeting would have a set duration before needing to be re-established

    Corezer, I agree on the spotting role. What do you think about this: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/utility-binoculars.78281/
  15. Kayth

    I still support a binoculars/spotting tool because it feel so flavorful, but I don't want it to interfere with the INF role of recon. If it could just fill a useful, yet somewhat niche role.

    While thinking of LA as commandos I liked an idea I saw mentioned before for use to carry 2 tools. That way we can have C4 and medkit. While life does not make a huge difference in a gun fight, it could still make the difference and it fits the play style of a lone wolf. Ammo resupply is arguable better, but why not get both?

    A buff to C4 in some way over other classes would be nice. Even if it would just allow us to pick up miss-placed C4 I think would help our staying power.
  16. Achmed20

    screw team utility. My idea: Make us able to equip a secondary gun
    gives us more ammo and more versatility (S version +USGL and a shotgun or a short and LR gun f.e.).
    its easy to implement and balance whise ... i dont know. but its easy to implement at least :)
    should also fit the Lonewolf vision Higby had.

    another idea: loot enemy weapons.
    I'd love to kill a HA just to steal his Rocket launcher and go rampage afterwards.
    or just smash a vanu/terran and use their own weaposn against them.

    for the binocular idea. i like the idea but thats honestly nothing the LA should get. thats sounds way more liek a recon tool which fits the infiltrator way more. they are usualy at long ranges anyway. thats no distance a LA wants to be.
  17. Minsc

    Two weapons would be too OP, I think. And would be more gear than a light assault should carry.

    There is no system at the moment for picking up items outside of a terminal. And would probably suck to implement, though being able to reclaim misplaced C4 would be fantastic (like Kayth said). Higby's notion was to let us scavenge ammo off the dead, so they are limited use ammo packs.

    I think binocs would fit both well. Yes it's not a range we fight in, but it would give us a use beyond CQB. We also get the best vantage points to spot enemies and could seriously help snipers snipe (they have a spotter IRL too). Infiltrator recon darts need to become more useful anyway, by detecting enemy explosives, auto-spotting enemies that remain in the area too long or acting as an alarm (make a loud noise if an enemy gets too close).
  18. Achmed20

    scavenge ammo isn't implemented as well and yet higby stated this rather strange idea.
    also, there is allready a way to interact with bodys (medic revive) so the base function needed for this (dead body interaction) are allready implemented. Swap weapon options are also ingame allready but limited to the GMs/observers. so basicly all you need to do is add a interact to bodys ("E" button) and swap/replace your current weapon (exists in GM tools) with the one from the body.

    dead_player.onInteraction (actor) {
    if it only would be so easy ^^
  19. Minsc

    Fair enough, but would it be the enemy's equipped weapon at death or do you get to choose? And could a Vanu weapon be resupplied from a TR/NC engineer ammo pack and vice versa? Personally I like the weapon I run with, so would rather use them as ammo packs. But picking up an enemy rocket launcher and making them think some one is TKing would be really fun.
  20. Achmed20

    probably the one which was equiped. for the ammo part, to balance it, i'd say you just have 1 full clip and thats it.
    otherwhise you might get a problem. just imagine a LA with a bolt action rifle. sounds little bit to OP if he had more then 5 bullets or 3 decimator shots.