Tomcats not locking on to Liberators

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Haquim, Nov 3, 2016.

  1. Haquim

    I just decided to try out the ability of the Tomcats to destroy Liberators and Galaxies.

    'lo and behold - they don't lock on to Liberators. Or at least they never actually get that lock. Just being red and beeping merrily. At least not for the two libs I just met and IF they actually CAN get a lock then it takes considerably longer than ten seconds.
    They lock on to ESFs in a bit over a second just fine though.

    Trying to find a Gal and testing the lockon for that, but I might get frustrated by getting shot down as helpless prey in the attempt before i manage a conclusive test.
    • Up x 1
  2. Haquim

    Update: I couldn't find a gal yet, but I also found a Reaver now that can't be locked on in more than 5 seconds.
    It might be unrelated to Liberators and just random with me having bad luck or maybe it is related to stealth and it increases lock-on time by infinity now.
    Or some other random loadout choice.
    • Up x 1
  3. Jake the Dog

    no it doesnt work on gals either.
    • Up x 1
  4. Haquim

    Oh great. So I now got a lock-on weapon designed to take down flying fortresses that doesn't lock on to flying fortresses.

    Brilliant. Classic SOE/DBG
    Can I just get twice the damage and dumbfire it please?
    And remove the laser-guidance on the hornets too while you're at it, having to point my nose at a tank until it hits is way more of a con than the ability of "steering" the missiles is a pro.
    • Up x 1
  5. Jake the Dog

    Yeah was really annoying when i was trying to stop a group of libs pounding away when my esf has useless weapons (besides the rotary) coupled with the default afterburner.

    But dont worry you can still lockon valks...

    you can also dumbfire hornets if you use the optics on them.
    • Up x 1
  6. zaspacer

    We all know that A2AM and Coyote are currently being made useless because they don't fit the bias of the designer in charge of ESFs (Wrel). That bias is to have ESF A2A be Air Nosegun based. I did not know that A2AM were also left broken too, but it does not surprise me (as it does not surprise you) because SOE/DBG Devs are sloppy as well as biased.

    1) DBG hired Wrel
    2) Wrel took over balance for ESFs
    3) Wrel made ESF A2A be conclusively about Nosegun
    4) Wrel nerfed non-Nosegun A2A into ~extinction

    Non-Fuel Tank ESF Wingmonts: Uniques by BR100
    =====================================
    Rocket Pods......................................586 (54.8%)
    Hornet...............................................343 (32%)
    A2AM.................................................80 (7.5%)
    Coyote................................................60 (5.6%)

    So long as Wrel is in office, we are unlikely to see this change... unless it's by accident (this happened once already), and then it will only be as long as it takes to fix that accident.

    Most the PS2 Devs do not play the game and are either (1) mailing it in or (2) making features they are personally interested in and that are not built for playability by the broader playerbase. You gottta just figure out if there is some sort of enjoyable gameplay for you buried under all the trash, and eek out some playtime doing that (for as long as it lasts)... then go do something else.

    That.

    Either:
    1) Fire the Hornet without using Optic, then Toggle (and keep toggled) the Optic after you fire to turn Hornets into Dumbfires (and keep it Dumbfired). If you stop holding the Optic on, it will resume being Guided.
    2) Toggle Optic before firing each Hornet. Then stop using Optic and your Hornets will turn into Dumfires. If you toggle and keep on Optic while the Hornets are in the air, it/they will resume being Guided.

    I prefer using Large Mag Nosegun and Rocket Pods vs. Libs.The lack of damage dropoff on the Large Mag Nosegun is great for putting pressure on Libs.

    Close Range Firing
    ==============
    Needler 1-Mag = 50% Damage on Lib
    Locust 1-Mag = 90% Damage on Lib
    Rotary 1-Mag = 30% Damage on Lib

    Far Range Firing
    =============
    Needler 1- Mag = 38% Damage on Lib
    Locust 1-Mag = 70% Damage on Lib

    Of course missing shots will reduce the damage %s, but you get the idea. You can sit back in an ESF and pretty much keep the bullet hose on a Lib until they break and retreat or try to come after you.

    Actually my default loadout is Large Mag Nosegun and Rocket Pods. I find it so practical vs. everything except enemy ESFs (in terms of both close range AV/AI, and long range AV). And vs. enemy ESFs, the skill difference between me and ESF enemies will make me win or lose most the time anyway, and having a better A2A Nosegun doesn't really matter often.
    • Up x 1
  7. adamts01

    Jake summed it up pretty well. the Lib is absolutely helpless in the air against a decent ESF. The long range nosegun is best, but the stock nosegun works great as well. Use your speed to stay between 400-500m and plink away while moving to the side mixed with up and down, there's nothing on a Lib that can do to fight back except land a 1/1,000,000 Dalton shot. Even when Tomcats did work it was stupid to get that close to a decent Lib anyway. Fuel tanks or LOLpods for the win.
    • Up x 1
  8. 1Tap2Tap


    IIRC, the issue is with the lock on time reducing utility attachment for Tomcats, it´s bugged.

    Lock on range increasing attachment for example should work just fine on Libs and Gals.
  9. Jamuro

    Wow, i mean ... realy, wrel has a bias towards the noseguns?
    Have you even watched a single of his videos where he talks about the airgame?


    And @Op, if you realy think that the devs break stuff on purpose then you must be new here.
    It's not on purpose, just a time honored tradition for anything new (or changed in a major way) to be completly broken one way or another.
  10. Haquim

    No I didn't mean that it was on purpose.
    I was talking about SOE/DBG "honoring tradition" as you put it ;)
  11. zaspacer

    Whoever is currently handling the ESF changes has a bias toward the non-AI Noseguns for ESF vs. ESF A2A. It was my understanding that person is Wrel.

    This is not like other Units where 1 Weapon has emerged as dominant. We have seen actual changes to push A2AM off the anti-ESF role, and to push Coyote's anti-ESF power to a level where it (again) is not seeing much use or having much effect.

    I'm really struggling to grasp how you cannot see the design bias toward non-AI Noseguns for ESF vs. ESF A2A. The stats show that BR100's are hardly using them, I don't think I've died to either of them as an ESF myself in the past month, and I sure am not using them. Do you fly? Maybe it's my design/data analysis/economic background/experience that makes this issue so clear for me.

    I watched some of Wrel's vids a while ago, but not much recently (might have caught a more recent vid on patch/test changes, can't remember).
  12. Jamuro



    alright against better judgment i ll bite ...


    The biggest thing you seem ot overlook is the fact that esfs have a primary and secondary weapon slot AND you can switch between them even during reload times.

    As a result one of the 2 slots has always to be weaker than the other or you end up with a situation like the old tomcats and to some extend the coyotes right after their release.


    Back then the tomcats were pretty much a 3 hit kill ... on it's own it was already an extremly potent and much to the hatred of most pilots fool proof weapon system.

    But once you combined it with the nosegun you ended up with a case of whoever shoots first wins ... no retreat, no evade no nothing it was just a case of who landed the first tomcat wins.


    I hope you see how this might have been bad, especially with a lockon weapon.



    That's enough of history for now.

    Now here is the 2nd thing you do not seem to get ... noseguns are so powerfull because they are realy difficult to use.
    With tomcats and coyotes you trade in power for ease of use.

    Give a weapon that is as easy to use to it's fullest potential as coyotes or tomcats the same power and you end up completly annihilating any illusion of choice.



    And finaly, please explain to me how your "economic" background makes you in any way an expert on balance issues ...

    Please don't tell me that someone with such a limited understanding when it comes to power projection of game mechanics is actually working as game designer. (can't think of anything else that you could have meant with that)
  13. zaspacer

    You are talking about celebrating and preserving a meta that is only played by a very small % of the PS2 total population since inception. Most other players feel the ESF meta is a bad joke. And some of us who are ESF pilots feel the ESF meta is a bad joke.

    Yes, I *get* that you like the Nosegun-Duel Meta and you want to preserve it. And that you recoil at the thought (or recollection) of A2AM and Coyote as powerful weapons in the meta. However, that in no way means this meta you prefer is what the majority of players want, and that speaks to a game that does not tailor its playability across units toward the bulk of its players. This has been an issue since I played EQ, it's a legacy culture from Brad, it was in effect when I was at Sigil, and I know it has been long rampant at SOE/DBG.

    And it is still the case that non-AI Noseguns currently dominate the ESF vs. ESF A2A meta.

    Economics is ultimately the study of systems. Of elements that affect each other, and what those affects are and how they shape the system (and how the system shapes them). Games are ultimately just systems. Familiarity with one can play directly into working with the other.

    You are ignorant and deluded. You are choosing that. You spout the above pointless jargon ("power projection of game mechanics"), you continuously fail to understand and conceptualize what I am saying from post to post, you the march out the same myopic pro-~Skynight dogma, and then you try to clamber up some high horse to cast aspersions on me? Wasteful.

    This forum is an amazing resource with a great community. It has a vast wealth to share. So much to learn from and learn with. You are missing that boat.

    PS2 the game itself is a flawed and doomed vehicle. Doomed to failure and doomed to being marginalized from a Dev level. It still has value as a genre test case and whatever utility its players can scrape from it. But this forum, this forum is still gold.
    • Up x 1
  14. Jamuro

    it's not about the meta ...

    It's about the fact that you can use tomcats/coyotes while having a nosegun equipt.
    This interaction is why the nerfs were needed (broken features are another issue tough)

    If you want a buffed up version of either tomcats or the coyotes and completly ignore the whole part about trading power for ease of use, then you cannot allow the nosegun to coexist with it.

    You can't simply look at the secondary options and say they are too weak, without taking the noseguns into account and how they interact with them.


    It's all great to cry bias and that secondaries are in your opinion to weak, but you are completly forgetting about the fact that they interact with the primary slot.


    Come up with a primary weapon that can replace the noseguns and fullfills your desired criteria (whatever they actually may be) AND is not completly broken once you add a lolpod/tomcat/coyote salvo into the mix and we can talk about it.


    But you are literally just crying out and throwing blame around, without actually offering anything usefull.


    Edit:
    Maybe i am ignorant, but it's realy rich coming from a guy who throws accusations of bias around without any proof and doesn't even take the few minutes required to actually watch the videos of the person he blames, talking about the exact same issues.


    You are right that this forum can be a great source of information ... so try and contribute, instead of just being an angry *****.